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Finding a Role for the Frigate |
Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
|  Posted: 2003-08-19 01:04
Ahh, the Frigate, the ugly Black sheep stepchild of the DS family. Scouts have it beat in speed and maneuverability, Destroyers have it beat in Firepower, a Cruiser+ can take them out in several Alphas, and they barely have the weapons to fight back.
Of course, the Frigate was never designed to slug it out in Cap ship fights, they're the patrol ships, the commerce raiders, the skirmishers, but due to gameplay features and the "All a Fleet needs is Cruisers and Dreads" mentality that has dominated, the only people who really fly Frigates are newbies, and that's until they can fly Destroyers. No more, I say! There is a way to make the Frigate a happy member of the DS family.
But to do it with the current Frigates would be hard indeed. Jump drives make screening your fleet with Frigates a waste of resources, and Transports just jump right past Frigates to a heavily-armed planet. So some changes will have to be made...
1) Give Frigates an Interdictor. No, this is not the ravings of a madman (despite what my peers might suggest  ). All Frigates of a combat nature (this would exclude the likes of a Bomber Frigate) would be fitted with an Interdictor device with a max range of < or = 500gu. A smart Fleet commander would have a reason to screen his ships with a picket line of Frigates; their dictor abilities would slow down an attacking fleet without risking the slow, vulnerable Interdictor Cruiser at much longer ranges then 1000gu, giving the commander more time and space to plan, and missile ships the full advantage of their long-range weapons. With the coming beam changes, a Frigate should be able to handle light missile fire, and have the speed and small profile to avoid most medium-range fire, plus a Dread would not be able to simply jump right on top of one and alpha it to death. You would need *gasp* other small ships to hunt it down. 
2) Give missions for Transport Hunting. With the added Interdictor device, this would also give Frigates a decisive commerce-raiding ability. Due the importance of trade in upcoming patchs, dictor-equipt Frigates will be able to interdict the trade routes and stop the flow of important materials to war-producing planets. Missions would be given to Frigates that will give Frigate captains X amount of cash&prest for Y transports destroyed in enemy territory.
3)Give missions for Patrol Duty. For the people with plenty of time and patience for lots of $$$. Systems bordering the front lines and enemy systems would offer missions exclusivly to Frigate captains: Several 'mission areas' would be assigned to the captain, usually placed along likely invasion routes, possible enemy ships sightings, places where the enemy could hide (i.e. Nebulas), ect. The Captain would have to spend X amount of time in each area in order to complete the mission and recieve a hansome rewards; if the enemy was encountered in any of the patrol areas, an additional bonus would be added.
Comments? Suggestions?
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NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2003-08-19 01:11
accutly icc already has a role for it, the sensoer firgete, maybe all other factions shoudl get a simular one *shurgs*
Kluth Looking Glass =)
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2003-08-19 01:22
Frigates are reasonably decent. Its not their fault that no one chooses to use them.
The frigate class is probably the most versatile class in the game. They can be modified to do all sorts of chores. Laying minefields, mining for resources, scouting, hiding entire fleets, etc...
And then there is the cripple hunting. Frigates are the ideal ship for standing away from a battle and cutting down the wounded as they punch out. The frigates can be modified to carry almost as much armour as the cruisers, and while firepower is limited, your extra speed means you can pummel your targets engine arc while being essentially untouchable.
The main reason I think they dont get used more is because they are near useless in any sort of fleet battle, and they get blown away by k'luth. That said I think dictor frigs are a horrible, horrible, horrible idea.
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2003-08-19 02:06
Real reason why small ships are underused is there is too many STRONGEST big ships on battlefield...
no fleet is capable of existance only of dreads and best of best cruisers ... but last year(s) in DS proved that these fleets walk over because of firepower ... sadly short moment when we got resources was preventing this, hopefully similar system is coming back soon, including ship build time ...
also another thing there is LOW variants (actually 1-2) of ship hulls in one class (e.g. light cruiser, heavy cruiser, PD cruiser, escort cruiser, ...)
when this was already in place, fleet and ship power gets variety and usage of frigates will be much easier (e.g. attack of frigates against escort or light cruiser is much more "acceptable" than against heavy or assault class ...
i know
it's just my dream to see 3 hulls in each category..
and more categories of ships than now ...
just dream...
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Deleted
Admiral
Joined:
Posts: 0
| Posted: 2003-08-19 03:12
Quote:
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On 2003-08-19 01:04, Lupino [RIP R33] wrote:
1) Give Frigates an Interdictor
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Victor Davion [TSLTB]
Cadet
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 47
From: Canada
| Posted: 2003-08-19 07:35
giving frigates interdictors is actually a good idea cuase then unsubed people could play an important role in newbie and whereever.
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Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-08-19 11:30
Perhaps then you'd like to explain why dictor Frigates are a bad idea?
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Eleda
Cadet
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 438
From: Sunny ol England
| Posted: 2003-08-19 16:20
Rather than giving frigates a dictor we need to seriously limit ALL jumping into combat situations. As it is fleet formations and tactics go out the window because the enemy can almost always get behind your frontline ships without taking serious/any damage (the amount depending on whether a dictor is present or not).
This will be made even worse in the new patch when people can jump while moving at top speed, and carry on moving at top speed after the jump. Dictors will be useless.
What we need is some way to encourage players to jump to the fringes of an engagement rather than the middle, and also a way to make tac-jumping within combat a risky last resort.
A crazy idea:-
Once a person finishes a jump ALL their systems will be deactivated for 3 to 5 seconds (say something like they have to all be shut down to power the jump and take time to re-start). Once this time is up weapons and other devices with a charge-time will start to charge up (this could cause probs with Kluth cloak, any suggestions for a fix?)
This will encourage people NOT to jump straight into a combat situation as they will be a sitting duck for 3-5 seconds when they can do nothing but cruise along at their previous speed (they would not be able to turn/change speed), and then un-able to fight back while their weapons charge.
I am excpecting frag-alot space bar jockeys to hate this btw
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2003-08-19 17:06
Simple it can be archived another way ...
Any ship enginel above frigate generate emissions which causing that EJP (end jump point) is unstable and it's +- some hundreds - thousands gus
this makes impossible to made always precise jump behind lines... (let say equiping better nav computer just decrease this missrate
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Lupino
Cadet
Joined: March 23, 2002
Posts: 359
| Posted: 2003-08-19 21:10
While good ideas, I still don't see it as giving the Frigate a role in the fleet. Sure you can have tactics and formations now, but what is the incentive to fly a Frigate? If you keept a line of dictoring Frigates around your fleet, and unless they sent their own light craft to punch a hole through, their Dreads will be sitting there for minutes charging the JDs while you're free to do what you like. This would *gasp* give the newbies something meaningful to do in the MV.
Plus the Frigate would be much cheaper and faster then using the Interdictor Cruiser.
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[ This Message was edited by: Lupino [RIP R33] on 2003-08-19 21:13 ]
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2003-08-19 21:26
eleda has the point;
currently its faster to JUMP 500 gu then fly them with anything smaller then a dread.
the JD needs to lose its insta-deplacement function and needs to become a device soley for crossing distances.
i am not to fond of the jump changes in beta either.
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NightDragon
Cadet
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 893
| Posted: 2003-08-19 23:43
i like the jump changes in beta
the problem is then that all close range dreads will have some serious problems killing anything smaller than a dread, dreads need to use short jumps in order for it to at least have a chance, ageinst anything small
i know your going to say, well it shouldnt
so just 1 destoryer should be able to killa dread? youll say no
then i say, what will make it so a dread can kill a destoreyr 1 on 1
better armorment? maybe
better armor? maybe, i think all dreads should have mroe armor than a destoryer (mainly, 1 best faction armor for each arc, then 1 heavy armor, and then depending on the roll of teh dread, another one in front, or another one on full)
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2003-08-20 00:48
I have maintained for a long time that we should limit the ability to make short-range jumps or jump directly into an enemy fleet. I've come up with several ideas over time.
Plan A: Give Jumpdrives a minimum distance of 2000 gu (the auto-orbit and trannie AI will already not jump to something within that range, so it makes sense to me)
Plan B: Jumps are not precisely accurate. Instead of jumping to a point in space, the jump is plotted to an area of space. The player still selects a point in nav-mode, but the point they actually arrive at can be anywhere within a circle (of which that point is the center). The area is larger for larger ships. Ships in formation maintain it through the jump (the lead ship is the only one that calculates the jump, the others just use its data). When jumping with a specific target, the circle is placed with the far edge of it right near the target.
Plan C: Increase jumpdrive recharge to several minutes.
Anyway...I think it would be interesting if we did have frigates with dictors...not of the Cruiser caliber, possibly 250-500 gu range. Not all frigates would have it, only a certain class. They could also be the one class devoted to point-defense; lots of light beams. I'm thinking "Escort Frigate."
I'd also advise re-naming Assault Frigates to Patrol Frigates...they're not exactly suited to straightforward combat against larger warships.
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Flint24
Cadet
Joined: August 02, 2003
Posts: 8
| Posted: 2003-08-20 01:12
The Frigate is a underestimated ship. I agree with Lupino. (ok boys im not brown nosing him or girls.) With a Interdictor a few Frigates could take on a Crusier. (2-3) Mabey just hit and run tactics. I'm still a nub but i understand the basis of each ship class. (played enough games and seen enough movies lol.) A small "platoon" could harrass the enemy till they have to do something about it. Lupinos ideas make sense to me. would play more but my comp is on the frits. Don't take offense to my opinion.It's just that.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2001-08-17 00:13
Quote:
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On 2003-08-19 23:43, NightDragon wrote:
the problem is then that all close range dreads will have some serious
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if you are asking me, close range dreads must go. realistically, what would be the point of a close range dread? whats the point now?
if you wish, talking naval battles, when did you last see a dread/battleship/carrier engage a destroyer in close combat, effectively and on their terms?
Quote:
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better armor? maybe, i think all dreads should have mroe armor than a |
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most definitely yes.
i also think the max speed differences between the ship classes need to be extended to improve gameplay. maybe not by much, numbers subject to tweaking as usual..
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