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Detection indicator |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
|  Posted: 2011-09-28 20:33
May I suggest that we have some sort of indicator that lights up when you are visible to an enemy? (If only cloaked ships are spotting you, then you will get no indicator)
Perhaps even a step further so that you can see if the friendly ships around you are detected by the enemy or not. (So you can smack them for getting you all discovered, or for the purpose of synchronizing ambushes)
If this sounds like a bad idea or too hard to implement, at the very least please have a detailed explanation of the relationship between scan range and signature, and how a -5.1sig frigate gets engaged from 2kgu away in the middle of nowhere.
...but uh, you know, um, whatever you want to do is fine... 
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2011-09-29 00:10 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-28 22:33
Your sig is already an indicator of your visibility.
IRL, you don't really know if someone have seen or noticed you right?
Well... at least until they send some live ammo over your way 
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-09-28 22:49
I was hoping we could leave IRL out of this and have it for the sake of gameplay. Just think of the indicator as passive sensors detecting the presence of the enemies active radar profile at significant strength to be clearly visible to them.
FreeAllegiance uses this system to great effect, and can be used interestingly to pin point the location of an 'eye' by adjusting your signature and tracking what locations you are detected at.
But that aside, just a plain good explanation of what sig even means would be wonderful. All I know is that it is not a multiplier of scan range, and I don't think it's additive either.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2011-09-28 22:51 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-28 23:03
This brings up another question.
Let's say you're an ICC or UGTO ship. No one else is around within 30,000 gus, and there's a cloaked Kluth ship sneaking up on you.
Are you supposed to get that visible warning too? Wouldn't that defeat the element of surprise?
Not knowing exactly when you are visible is a part of tactical gameplay isn't it? You jump in wondering if someone has spotted you. And you have to make guesses and estimations base on your distance from them and your sig. That's tactics.
It wouldn't be fun if information was handed to you on a silver platter.
So, no. I don't support this idea. Dumbs the game down further.
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2011-09-28 23:51
Quote:
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On 2011-09-28 23:03, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
This brings up another question.
Let's say you're an ICC or UGTO ship. No one else is around within 30,000 gus, and there's a cloaked Kluth ship sneaking up on you.
Are you supposed to get that visible warning too? Wouldn't that defeat the element of surprise?
Not knowing exactly when you are visible is a part of tactical gameplay isn't it? You jump in wondering if someone has spotted you. And you have to make guesses and estimations base on your distance from them and your sig. That's tactics.
It wouldn't be fun if information was handed to you on a silver platter.
So, no. I don't support this idea. Dumbs the game down further.
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Well naturally a detection indicator would not reflect cloaked ships' capability to detect you.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-09-28 23:59
Quote:
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On 2011-09-28 23:51, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Well naturally a detection indicator would not reflect cloaked ships' capability to detect you.
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This.
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2011-09-29 02:32
a warning when enemy sees u...the red alert helps...
and yes ur signal also tells u who wll see u. there's a formula for it, a bit more complex then y=300 + 100x but should give u some idea.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-09-29 05:04
Quote:
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On 2011-09-29 02:32, The Flying Dutchman wrote:
there's a formula for it, a bit more complex then y=300 + 100x but should give u some idea.
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y = k ( wmx + c )
where y = max distance of detection (capped at 5000 gu for gameplay purpose)
x = signature (which is floored at 0.0 signature for logical purpose)
m = hull level of ship trying to hide
c = constant of detectability (varies for different hull levels)
k = boolean constant of scanner activity (no = 1, yes = 2)
w = multiplier constant of detectability (value is below 100)
this formula is accurate upto 90~%
and you still cant figure out when ur spotted, right? well dont bother, because darkspace is not a numbers game.
if you noticed the special conditional of 'x', you will know that in game there is no difference between 0 signature, -0.5 signature or -9001 signature, which happens to avoid that weird thing with detection at negative ranges...or something.
so manage your ecm well, you should aim for just below 0.0 signature. too much ecm and you waste energy, too little ecm and you lose your stealth.
@defiance i said 'manage ecm' not "use exactly 66.7% of ecm available". manage includes understanding how much ecm to use according to situation, and whether to use ecm at all or not.
[ This Message was edited by: 4th on 2011-09-29 08:24 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-09-29 05:10
the more ecm the faster you can travel.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-29 08:50
Quote:
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On 2011-09-28 23:51, Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Well naturally a detection indicator would not reflect cloaked ships' capability to detect you.
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This still begs a question.
How can you know if someone has spotted you? How can any weapon or radar system know? (Besides the obvious part where this is a game and the server knows all......)
The next question would be, why should something that dumbs down the game further be implemented?
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Nekatil
1st Rear Admiral
Team Germany
Joined: April 07, 2010
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2011-09-29 13:20
you know you've got targeted, when the other ship's radar focus its radar waves on you....
another idea:
your ship-computer hacks into enemy computer and read their config
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-09-29 13:39
its a terrible idea. lets say we are playin some fps game. Im a sniper why should the game give you an indicator telling you im targeting you. It would give away the sniper's ability to suprise attack. This is essentially the same thing in this game. The radar target idea also doesnt work. In any game or genre where there is a cloaking device. It is always very difficult to detect outside of extreme circumstances. One last thing the only games that have the ability to tell you if someone is targeting you is hacks.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-09-29 15:51
Just try the game 'Free Allegiance' and tell me if their intuitive signature and detection system dumbs the game down at all.
But then, one major difference is that none of the ships have an instant escape button. It normally takes 6-10 seconds to activate a teleport, and some ships have no ability to do so at all. (And only if you have a compatible teleport receiver someplace) meanwhile you're completely vulnerable to attack.
Their signature system makes complete sense.
You got two values that factor in: The combined signature of all active equipment, and ship scan range.
If you have a signature of 100%, you'll be detected at 3200m by a scout.
If you have a signature of 50%, you'll be detected at 1600m by a scout.
If you have a signature of 200%, you'll be detected at 6400m by a scout.
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Subtilizer
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 20, 2010
Posts: 122
| Posted: 2011-09-29 16:04
Quote:
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On 2011-09-29 15:51, Fluttershy wrote:
Just try the game 'Free Allegiance' and tell me if their intuitive signature and detection system dumbs the game down at all.
But then, one major difference is that none of the ships have an instant escape button. It normally takes 6-10 seconds to activate a teleport, and some ships have no ability to do so at all. (And only if you have a compatible teleport receiver someplace) meanwhile you're completely vulnerable to attack.
Their signature system makes complete sense.
You got two values that factor in: The combined signature of all active equipment, and ship scan range.
If you have a signature of 100%, you'll be detected at 3200m by a scout.
If you have a signature of 50%, you'll be detected at 1600m by a scout.
If you have a signature of 200%, you'll be detected at 6400m by a scout.
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I having been a squadded player in Free allegiance say while it suits that game style it would not work in darkspace. In allegiance combat is across multiple sectors with the alephs (Wormholes) connecting them, on average there is a 4k distance between the alephs in a sector from eachother. While this system works in allegiance as i said it work not translate into darkspace.
Darkspace has vast amounts of open space something allegiance lacks , using the allegiance signiture system would 1 make it difficult to find the enemy even more so than normal. A will leave it at this as im busy i will continue my reasoned arguement at a later date.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2011-09-29 16:59
Fair enough, just know that while DS doesn't have alephs and sectors, it does still have choke points (gates), commonly used jump paths (between planets), and points of concentrated activity (close to planets, or a remote staging point before an attack).
Not needed, really, I can tell I've been detected by watching the movement of the surrounding ships.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2011-09-29 16:59 ]
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