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lost? better hope this state doesn't find you |
Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
|  Posted: 2009-07-17 22:53
CONCORD, N.H. — A Massachusetts teenager who spent three nights alone on Mount Washington in April after he sprained an ankle and veered off marked trails has been fined more than $25,000 for the cost of his rescue.
Scott Mason had been praised for utilizing his Eagle Scout skills — sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting fires with hand sanitzer gel. But authorities say he wasn't prepared for the conditions he encountered and shouldn't have set out on such an ambitious hike.
"Yes, he'd been out there in July when you could step across the brooks. And people have been out there in winter in hard-packed snow. But with these spring conditions, it was soft snow, it was deep snow," said Fish and Game Maj. Tim Acerno.
Acerno said he believes Mason's fine is the largest ever sought under a 9-year-old New Hampshire law that allows lost hikers and climbers to be charged for rescue costs. Mason's rescue was particularly expensive because the helicopters the state typically used were unavailable, and a helicopter from Maine had to be brought in, Acerno said.
Mason, 17, of Halifax, Mass., had planned to spend one day hiking 17 miles in the New Hampshire mountains but ended up lost after he hurt his ankle and decided to take a shortcut. The shortcut led him into rising water and deep snow caused by unseasonably warm weather.
Mason was negligent in continuing up the mountain with an injury and veering off the marked path, Acerno said. Negligence, he said, is based on judging what a reasonable person would do in the same situation.
"When I twist my ankle, I turn around and come down. He kept going up," Acerno said.
"It was his negligence that led to him getting into that predicament," he said. "Once he was in that predicament, yes, that's what we praise him for — he used his Boy Scout skills, and that's why he's still alive."
Several states, including neighboring Maine and Vermont, have rescue repayment laws similiar to New Hampshire, though others tend to be more lenient. In Washington state, a bill that would have created a reimbursement system with fines capped at $500 never even made it out of committee this year. In New Hampshire, however, lawmakers made it even easier to charge for rescues last year when they changed the law to allow fines for those who acted negligently instead of the harder to prove standard of recklessness.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2009-07-17 23:11
That's BS. As I recall, we have police, fire and rescue because they are funded by TAXES, not by payment upon services rendered. Everyone pays every year so that just in case this is the year they get into some bad mojo, somone will be there to save them.
He is 17 years old. Of course he didn't make the best decision. That is why he is called a minor. Do we really live in a world where people look to the COST of saving a life over the ACT of saving a life? What ever happened to 'I am just glad you are okay."? If you cannot afford to fly a helicopter out to find him, then walk out a search party. God forbid my car breaks down and the police decide to airlift it out of the traffic lane rather than call a tow truck.
Why not just start sending a water bill to someone who's house has burned down and firemen had to put it out?
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2009-07-18 02:27
Because that's New Hampshire, They will tax what ever they can to the full extent.
Hey, those law makers need their bonuses too ya know, And that 80% of your paycheak to taxes just dosen't cover it anymore, So now they will tax your children!
btw, I live in New Hampshire. Trust me, if you get lost, you find your own way out, or be stuck in debt for the next 10 years of your life...
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befuddled
Fleet Admiral
Joined: December 01, 2002
Posts: 42
From: befuddled
| Posted: 2009-07-18 06:55
I could understand, but disagree with, the argument he should be chased for expenses incurred as a result of his own actions. And I could even entertain the case of his parents being held responsible for the expenses ensuing from the actions of a dependent minor under their care. But this one from a few years ago struck me as particularly unjust.
From the Independent:
Families billed for failed attempt to rescue skiers
By Paul Kelbie
Thursday, 17 August 2006
The families of two British snowboarders killed in an avalanche in the French Alps have expressed their anger at being chased by debt collectors over a £20,000 bill for the failed rescue attempt.
Sam Harber, 25, and James Rourke, 26, died while snowboarding off-piste in April last year. Despite the efforts of a French mountain rescue team, involving a helicopter and dog teams, neither man was saved after they were swept away by a 500-metre wide torrent of ice, snow and rock on Grande Motte, in the resort of Tignes.
Rescuers found Mr Rourke's body a day after the accident. But Mr Harber's body was not found until two months later - on what would have been his 26th birthday. Their families have been asked to pay about £10,000 each to cover rescue costs after the men's insurance company CNA refused to pay out.
If the accident had happened in Britain the debt would have died with the victims. But under French law, surviving relatives are liable to pay for the rescue as neither man had enough money left in his estate to meet the bill.
Now the helicopter company involved in the failed rescue attempt has appointed a French debt collection firm to try and get its money back from the parents of the extreme sports fans, who were in France working as ski chalet managers for the holiday firm VIP Snowline at the ski resort of Val d'Isère.
The two friends were experienced snowboarders and had gone off piste during their time off, despite weather reports forecasting a Factor Three risk of an avalanche which means "considerable" on a scale of one to five.
A small-print clause in the men's insurance policiesstated they were not covered for "exposure to danger which is reasonably foreseeable" and as a result, CNA insurance refused to pay the rescue bill.
The families have now been sent bills demanding they each pay £9,000 for the helicopter and £1,200 for the dog teams.
"It's so difficult to move on when you still have this situation hanging over you," said Barry Harber, who said his son had no chance of survival after the avalanche broke just 100 metres above where he and his friend were snowboarding.
Mr Harber, 59, a marketing consultant from Lawshall, near Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, said that although off-piste skiing was included in his son's insurance, CNA refused to pay for the rescue attempts because it was claimed the two men ignored danger signs. "We now have to fight to not pay this money and we are so angry it has come to this. The rescue teams did such a good job and deserve to get paid but there is this massive grey area when it comes to this kind of insurance. We have been through enough without having to pay this money out as well."
Mr Harber said he wanted to warn other people they may not be covered by their insurance on holiday. "There must be hundreds of kids going out there thinking they've got cover off piste," he said.
Mr Rourke's father, Peter Rourke, 52, of Littlehampton, West Sussex, cannot pay the bill because he is a full-time carer for his wheelchair-bound wife Anne, 50. The families of both men have pledged to fight on, despite failing in two attempts to take their case to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
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Veronw
Marshal
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 554
| Posted: 2009-07-18 17:58
Its such miserable bull crap that legislatures and corperations do this kind of stuff. Not like we don't pay up our asses to cover ends meet, now if you happen to get in trouble, you get to go into permanent debt, or put into a possibly homeless situation if you can't pay. Loathesome practice of people who are just too damn greedy.
**continues to support the policy of executing all politicians via guillatine**
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2009-07-18 18:29
I read that story, thats BS that the state woudl do that, its not like we have to emtpy our wallets enough allready...
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2009-07-19 14:31
OMG.... i gotta ask.. how many of you people are adults? Really? I don't pay my taxes to support some lame ass who goes and gets lost. There's nothing wrong with a legitimate rescue, but when you veer off the marked trail, aren't prepared, don't leave maps with detailed routes for the "just in case scenario" then y'all need to have your asses fined out the wazoo.
It's too bad in this day and age that we can't let Darwin have his merry way with kids like that. And for whoever it was that said his life was worth more than $25,000.. don't kid yourself. That could go to feeding the homeless for a year in a small city, or provide cancer drugs to someone that can't afford it. Your life aint worth that. Sue the kid, and his parents. Get the money back, and spread the word about. Stupid people should pay for their mistakes, not the taxpayers!!
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2009-07-19 15:37
Not everyone wants to live inside the lines, walking the Brave New World trail. Some people want legitimate adventure. Wanting the freedom to wander the world freely should not be scolded.
In human society, since about 2500 years ago, darwinism no longer rewards survivalism (best and brightest). The safest thing to do, guarenteeing survival and breeding ability is to sit in your home fat and happy. This is, however, not the best road for the species.
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2009-07-19 17:17
Quote:
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On 2009-07-19 14:31, Rae wrote:
OMG.... i gotta ask.. how many of you people are adults? Really? I don't pay my taxes to support some lame ass who goes and gets lost. There's nothing wrong with a legitimate rescue, but when you veer off the marked trail, aren't prepared, don't leave maps with detailed routes for the "just in case scenario" then y'all need to have your asses fined out the wazoo.
It's too bad in this day and age that we can't let Darwin have his merry way with kids like that. And for whoever it was that said his life was worth more than $25,000.. don't kid yourself. That could go to feeding the homeless for a year in a small city, or provide cancer drugs to someone that can't afford it. Your life aint worth that. Sue the kid, and his parents. Get the money back, and spread the word about. Stupid people should pay for their mistakes, not the taxpayers!!
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Agreed 100%. As a hiker they mark the trails for a reason. Also he made a good point if you sprained your ankle why would you continue up. I don't beleive in the idea where "one person on the team fails, everyone should get punished."
I could go on and on about how everyone is being held accountible in the same aspect right now in housing, banking, and so forth, but I best keep politics out of it.
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2009-07-19 20:09
How does that relate to this post.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-07-19 20:23
It's sythe - 'nuff said.
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2009-07-19 20:51
Quote:
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On 2009-07-19 20:09, -Shadowalker- wrote:
How does that relate to this post.
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The corollary to that story is that the state of New Hampshire charged that kid $7,000 to locate the missing carrot.
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Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda)
Grand Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 919
From: Pittsburgh PA, USA
| Posted: 2009-07-20 17:05
25 G's. F that, just let me die.
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2009-07-20 23:52
Quote:
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On 2009-07-20 17:05, Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda) wrote:
25 G's. F that, just let me die.
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Careful, they will charge you an extra 5,000 for that 
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