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The next patch... |
Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
|  Posted: 2004-03-30 11:49
Heads up on what I'm working on...
I've added dynamic focus area managment back into the server code. This should fix the cause of the disband, scrap, etc... lag. The reason, is currenty all verbs in the game are assigned a priority level, verbs for scrapping, refitting your ship, etc are all medium and low priority verbs... much less important than verbs concerning another ship firing weapons at you. Currently, if the amount of data being sent to your machine is at the maximum amount, then non-critical verbs get queued until bandwidth to your client is available again... this is the huge delay, that you guys are calling lag.
Now, when your bandwidth is maxed, the server will automatically start reducing your focus area (currently set automatically by the client based on your BPS). So long as your bandwidth is below the max, then it will slowly increase your focus area again over time.
Additionally, I'm making some more optimizations to use less CPU on the server side, specifically the asteroid code is using 25% or so of the CPU in the current MV. I'm going to make sure it skips some caluclations for asteroids with a 0 velocity, which should help increase the server capacity.
-Richard
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 12:15
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On 2004-03-30 11:49, Faustus wrote:
Now, when your bandwidth is maxed, the server will automatically start reducing your focus area (currently set automatically by the client based on your BPS). So long as your bandwidth is below the max, then it will slowly increase your focus area again over time.
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Mew.. those delays are just as bad in outer space with nothing in focus.
EDIT: I'm entirely not sure wheter the "delay" effect i was talking about is even caused by this.
See, the "delay" effect causes you to be unable to control things recently created or mounted.
It is completely unrelated to anything but the time passed since mount/creation, and its not a "lag" - the commands are simply not executed at all until that timespace is over.
[wild theory]
It might be that, while the client does establish the presence/change, and the Server is applieing it as well, the Client does not reload/post-load the (assumed)Object idenity of the Server object, thus the Server is unable to execute the command, or the Client is unable to produce it.
[/wild theory]
I'm not sure what you mean by "maxed" bandwith, seeing as DarkSpace never uses the full Bandwith, unless maybe for dialup connections..
Yet everyone is gettign the described delays..
I'm also not sure if i want DarkSpace to lower my Focus Area because it thinks my Bandwith is maxed (Can you give a definition of that?), or increase it because it thinks nothing is going to happen anyways..
Constantly entering and leaving the Battle is something i always do, especially on K'luth. What effects will that have?
Maybe the Focus area(s) should be dynamic in size AND location.. If i just left an Area of high Traffic, its very likely im still very intersted in it, as it is also if i never even was there before.
Maybe a smart Focus Area selection can be done?
Excuse me if im not making sense, but i'm on a limited knowledge of the context here..
[ This Message was edited by: Helpless Bunny on 2004-03-30 12:26 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2004-03-30 12:21
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Yet everyone is gettign the described delays..
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That's not true.. I very rarely get any lag, and when I do, its not more than half a second long.
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 12:28
Quote:
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On 2004-03-30 12:21, Shigernafy wrote:
That's not true.. I very rarely get any lag, and when I do, its not more than half a second long.
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*proceeds to stalk and kill shig*
I'm not talking about lag at all.. read the Post "Recap: "delay" effect" in Bug reports carefully, please, and the above post as well.
EDIT again:
Faustus wrote:
> This should fix the cause of the disband, scrap, etc... lag.
..
> Currently, if the amount of data being sent to your machine is at the
..
What i am saying is, you might be on the wrong track. From my understanding of things, its even higly likely that you are, but then, my understanding of things is limited.
[ This Message was edited by: Helpless Bunny on 2004-03-30 12:31 ]
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 12:59
@Shig..
I've just been in the MV, and i made a litte Experiment.
I set my Focus to 1500. I was sitting around about 3000 out of an enemy Planet. A capping operation was going on, and i was waiting for the right time to jump in.
My Client's state was stale over from the point it had initially loaded the Area for about 5 Minutes. Ships were moving along their old Vectors, and no new Ships were loaded that had(as i learned then) entered the Area.
Suddenly, one of our Transports was visible at the enemy Planet. I jumped in to protect him, but the State in my Client was so completely invalid, the whole Situation was entirely different, and i barely escaped alife.
Now imagine the irritation this causes with your John Doe Player.
This, however, is unrelated to the "delay" effect.
Nevertheless, it is a serious Design issue that should be taken care of, and is addressed by the changes F is currently making - but only to a very limited degree! The described Algorithm is, IMHO, not sufficient.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2004-03-30 13:05
Quote:
| Maybe the Focus area(s) should be dynamic in size AND location.. If i just left an Area of high Traffic, its very likely im still very intersted in it, as it is also if i never even was there before.
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However, this idea of your may well help to solve the problem you just described. True, your focus doesn't directly include the planet you were sitting 3000 gu from, but since its a high-action area, there's a liklihood that you'll be interested in it. Thus, perhaps you should get updates on it, albeit not as often as you would get if you were actually PART of the action. Maybe an update once every couple or 5 seconds, as opposed to every second (or whatever the frequency is). Thus, you could still get a general idea of what's going on, but it wouldn't totally overload your connection.
Its an interesting thought.
Unfortunately, I don't program that sort of thing, so I'm basically in the same boat as you. 
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 13:12
Hey, someone understood what im talking about.. Wub you Shig 
Proof of "delay" affect not having anythign to do with client state, also invalidates my wild theory above:
I built a Factory on a Planet 30 Minutes ago. After 2 re-logins, it is still not reacting to "Produce" commands.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2004-03-30 13:35
slightly off topic and probably pretty low on teh "too be fixed/changed/updated" list, but was wondering, whats the lastest word on key binds and color options for the huds and such (interested more in the former than the latter)
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2004-03-30 13:42
More fixes in this patch...
* fixed some bugs with the damage direction/facing. All damage should be from the correct direction now, please test this in beta when this version is up and make sure I've got all the damage (including ship explosions, area damage, direct damage, etc... ) affecting the correct shield facings.
* VerbSyncShip is now global, so you should see no more ships at the jumpgates that snap to their real positions in space when you target them. All ships in game, will send out a sync packet once every 30 seconds.
-Richard
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Monsieur *Cpt*
Cadet
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 17
From: PA, USA
| Posted: 2004-03-30 13:54
The only thing that sounds unusual with your description of the problem is that you said "the focus area is based on the individual's bandwith, and when their bandwith is maxed, it decreases..." or something like that...
If that truly is what's causing the build "lag," what strikes me as unusual is that when a building or infantry is "lagged," it's not just lagged for the individual client who's working on the planet.... it's lagged for everyone who attempts to mess with it.
According to your explanation of the problem, wouldn't it make sense that those with extremely high bandwith would still be able to scrap/build/pause/etc....? For everybody's focus area to be reduced, there would have to be some EXTREME cpu load issue somewhere in the coding...
Well, I'm no expert but your talk of "the individual's bandwith" struck me as odd because this problem is not experienced by the individual.
- Monsieur
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 14:47
Quote:
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On 2004-03-30 13:42, Faustus wrote:
All ships in game, will send out a sync packet once every 30 seconds.
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Wub you.
[ This Message was edited by: Helpless Bunny on 2004-03-30 14:49 ]
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 14:48
Just for Monsieur..
Quote:
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On 2004-03-30 13:12, Helpless Bunny wrote:
Proof of "delay" affect not having anythign to do with client state, also invalidates my wild theory above:
I built a Factory on a Planet 30 Minutes ago. After 2 re-logins, it is still not reacting to "Produce" commands.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2004-03-30 19:34
Make sure the planet isn't locked BTW...
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-30 19:38
/me falls over.
No, Faustus, its not locked.
You see, just because i made that mistake ONCE, in BETA; where i was alone with some yellow font d00d that was successfully trying to be a PITA and happened to have gotten GA Prestige in Beta from someone and i am only a 2RA in Beta, while in Release, its more like the other Way around, doesnt mean i cant Build.
Maybe i should just shut up entirely. Good Riddance!
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Phoebuzz
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 110
| Posted: 2004-03-30 20:26
It's more of a Desync problem than a Priority problem.
Whenever you install a component, build a structure or an infantry is created at a barrack, that component/structure/infantry cannot be interacted with. For example, it's not possible to destroy a building that was just constructed, but you can destroy a old building on the same planet, you can't disband or give command to an infantry that was just spawned but you can with infantries that were spawned a long time ago, you can't change the weapon group of components that were just installed, etc.
The reason it looks like a desync is because if you want to scrap a building/infantry and you can't because they were just built, you can ask someone who is far away from the planet to focus on the planet and scrap the building/infantry... and they can. :s
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[ This Message was edited by: Phoebus on 2004-03-30 20:27 ]
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