| Author |
ICC seige torps are completley useless. |
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
|  Posted: 2015-01-02 22:51
Everyone keeps telling me ICC seige torps are equal to others because they have lower recharge times. So i got my jump cruisers 3 seige torp slots to a recharge time of 38 seconds and attempted to kill ugto platforms before capturing the planet. After 6 full rounds of fire i gave up, upon closer inspection the plat was at 18% armor 100 hull. So 1 more round wouldve killed it. That is 7 rounds to kill a single platform. 7x38 seconds is a long long time to fire torps at a platform. So i ask you, what is the point of these icc seige torps? They are supposed to have been introduced to prevent platform spam but they take much longer to kill a single platform than a regular combat ship. Is this really what was intended for ICC seige torps?
ICC seige torps do indeed have lower recharge times compared to the ugto and kluth ones but does that actually make them equal? The answer is obvious when you actually think about it. A supply platform at a planet is going to heal a very large amount in the 38-50 seconds between rounds of fire, that is the reason is took 7 rounds of seige torps to kill a single plat. How is that equal to having to fire only 1 round of kluth seige torps to kill a platform?
So key points.
1. ICC seige torps deal such a small amount of damage in relation to their shorter but still much too long recharge time that target heals most or all of the damage between shots. (i.e. the 7 rounds of fire it took from my jump cruisers 3 seige torp slots to kill a single ugto supply platform)
2. There is a point in the game where immediate weapon salvo damage overtakes and becomes more effective than dealing high damage per second. That is the entire idea behind darkspace seige torps. It is this fact that allows kluth seige torps to destroy a platform or even a ship in a single shot despite the fact that their recharge time is enormous and would result in poor damage per second when calculated. ICC seige torps do not fit this mold. Their immediate damage is far too low to work on any target effectivly whether it be a platform around a planet or in deep space.
3. And most importently it is pointless to try to use ICC seige torps agaisnt platform spam. A combat ship is far more effective agaisnt a platform than trying to use ICC seige torps.
Somthing needs done about this. There are many problems in this game but this is a BIG one and is completely ridiculous. Kluth cruiser comes in unseen fires a single round and destroys anything they choose, then has luxary of cloaking or simply jumping away because their 1 round is all it takes and their is no reason to stick around for another shot which completley negates the longer recharge time. Then you have an icc cruiser hanging around to fire 7 rounds of seige torps which takes more than 4 minutes. This is beyond unfair and must be addressed.
_________________
|
Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2015-01-02 23:47
You have 3 siege torps on the jump cruiser. A clavate (3 siege torps) doesn’t do much better vs ICC supply platforms. In fact, with a stock clavate sitting at 650gu it actually looked like it was impossible to destroy an ICC supply platform because it’s out of combat timer triggered well before the 70 second cooldown of the luth siege torps was up. I had to move to 415gu before I was able to kill it.
A faster fire rate might actually be an advantage when you consider the 30 second out of combat timer.
Past this, siege torpedoes are just bundled together versions of each factions core torpedoes , so ICC siege torps do significantly less damage than luth siege torps just as variance torps do significantly less damage than norps. So it stands to standard faction balance principles that luth have the highest damage siege torps.
_________________
|
Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2015-01-03 10:40
Quote:
On 2015-01-02 23:47, Chewy Squirrel wrote:
You have 3 siege torps on the jump cruiser.
|
The jump cruiser is already powerful enough. It's fine. We don't need it able to easily kill stuff too.
[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator on 2015-01-03 10:41 ]
_________________
I be rebuilding your planets!
|
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-01-03 21:44
i only used jump cruiser as an example, seige dread, or bomber dread is the same result, the icc torps just dont deal enough damage to make up for the shorter but still far too long recharge time. My seige dread agaisnt ugto platform base in deep space was a frustarting failure. i killed a few at 3 or 4 rounds a piece, ran out of torps and energy before clearing just a modest base. My point is whats the point of these if a regular combat ship does it much faster. seige torps supposed to be fast nearly unstoppable way to deal with platform spam
_________________
|
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2015-01-03 21:57
o yea and also not sure why you had so much trouble with icc platform with a kluth cruiser bomber. A player destroyed whole side of planets defense platforms in a single round right in front of me, while also hulling my dreadnought. this was with full multiplex also which makes a difference, full multiplex on icc seige torps increase the damage only slightly due to the much smaller damage numbers, the max can only be brought from max of 26k to 30k.
And also jump cruiser being a good ship already doesnt explain what seige torps are supposed to be for if they cannot damage somthing enough in a round to effectivly kill the intended platform target. And i will say that jump cruiser with the 30k max damage mod, can effectly be used agaisnt kluth platforms with a kill time of 2-3 rounds.
ICC is weakest weapon damage after all and i would not expect or demand anything ridiculous like being able to kill an ugto platform in 1 round, just should be more effective to use jump cruisers 3 seige torp slots to kill a platform than say a heavy cruiser to do the same job, and at the moment the heavy cruiser is much much more effective choice, just as the combat dread is more effect choice than a bomber dreadnought to destroy platsforms, thats all im saying really.
IF you doubt i am right just play around with icc seige torps one day when your bored and nothing going on. No matter which ship or what setup you use you will see what i mean about them being much less effective agiaisnt plats than a combat ship of the same size class.
_________________
|
-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2015-01-05 17:38
So they take 7-10 salvos to do what kluth torps do in 2-3.
Tell me how this is different from any other ICC weapon?
Since when has ICC ever killed anything in 2-3 salvos?(other than LS missles.LOL)
Instead of relying on other faction tactics(kluth high damage torps) you should be relying on your own faction tactics, like your extreme manuverability and uncanny ability to regen shields quickly.
With weapon condensors, and the long ICC torp range, and a fleet of an SS /LS and line dreads and supporting craft, you should be able to rain down pain over time(key word here) on the enemy fortifications.
And IMO that is how ICC offense works: damage over time.
Not trying to come across as rude or attacking, just making a point.
That being said, I haven't messed around with ICC siege torps and if what you say is true, that other ships are more effective at killing plats than siege torps, than maybe they could reacharge a bit faster to get more DPS out of them.
Speaking of DPS... how does the two compare DPS wise?(kluth and icc siege torps) If I remember right, it takes like 45 secs for kluth sieges to recharge, and if fired at max range(800) take like 20? more secs to reach target, and use a huge ammount of energy.
How many ICC sieges can be fired in this same ammount of time? I'd imagine much more than kluth, and with less energy used.
If this is the case, then the weapons might be more similar than you'd expect.(DPS wise)
_________________
*Connection lost, attempting reconnect in 30 seconds....
Do you really want to just pay bills until you die?
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2015-01-06 16:38
The problem with higher DPS (that's debateable with these torps) over higher DPH is a cluster of plats can outrepair incoming damage, with enough spike damage repair rate doesn't matter.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2015-01-07 13:35
Killing ICC Plats with UGTO Seige torps are useless because the plats heal themselves fully before you can fire again.
_________________
|
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2015-01-07 13:47
Perhaps these are better used in combination with combat units?
A supporting carrier or cannon ship, and some coordinated targeting could mop em up.
Think about it, those platforms and planet defenses take quite a long time to build up, it's only fair that it requires some amount of effort to clear it out.
If the enemy is camped in, go bomb surrounding planets, and do so from the far side of said planet so they have to jump at an indirect angle to get anywhere close to you. This can be used as bait as when they jump clear of their platforms, you can have an ambush force under ECM that can charge in as soon as they arrive.
_________________
|
TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2015-01-08 13:56
What about a timer on your screen letting you know you're about die?
_________________
|
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2015-01-09 02:08
KLuth siege torpedoes kill ICC platforms (high damage vs medium hp).
UGTO siege torps kill KLuth platforms (medium damage vs low hp).
ICC siege torps kill UGTO platforms (low damage low cooldown vs high hp low regen) (surprise surprise).
UGTO siege torps kind of fail vs ICC platforms (medium cooldown vs high regen). Easily countered by stagger-firing your siege torps.
KLuth siege torps kind of fail vs UGTO platforms (high cooldown vs medium regen). A second salvo won't be ending with just dents, though.
ICC siege torps still kind of win vs KLuth platforms (low damage low cooldown vs low hp medium regen). As someone said, the damage is low but the DPS is still competitive.
Ofcourse, failure here meaning being able to kill a given platform in 1-2 salvos or 1 min.
See a pattern here, people? ICC Siege torpedoes aren't bad (well, not worse than other torps). Just that in sneak attacks, KLuth bombers are reasonably able to fire 2 salvos and destroy stuff. And even KLuth torpedoes won't kill a UGTO platform that is being repaired due to depot and/or due to orbiting a planet. You might aswell get an engineer and tractor those platforms away from/into the planet.
Be mindful of your AoE radius as well. ICC's radius is not very big, so only against a concentrated platform group will you be most effective. KLuth have a huge one, so space out your platforms! The blast damage falls off plenty at around 150 gu separations ^^.
I also expect ICC siege torps to be *very* useful in a genuine battle, such as in standoff situations because of their range. Where missiles fail to break through platform PD, and torpedo ships fail to get through beam/cannon squadrons, ICC's siege torpedoes will find use most often.
[ This Message was edited by: Forger of Destiny on 2015-01-09 02:16 ]
_________________
Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
|
TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2015-01-12 12:04
Quote:
On 2015-01-09 02:08, Forger of Destiny wrote:
...KLuth siege torps kind of fail vs UGTO platforms (high cooldown vs medium regen). A second salvo...
|
What are you talking about. They kill everything UGTO in one hit.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
