| Author |
ICC beams, also a problem with ALL beams |
Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
|  Posted: 2014-12-16 22:45
PART 1
Kluth is the close range faction so as you would guess they have by far the best beams in the game. Kluth beams have little or no falloff (i have heard they have 10% falloff but i always thot it was 0%), deal large amounts of damage over the 7 or 8 seconds in which they fire each round, and of course get the best range (300 for heavy beam). Kluth also has a midlevel damage beam called the elf beam that damages SHIELDS only and drains energy when hitting armor and hull.
UGTO beams are far from kluth disruptors but still deadly. Ugto beams have decent range (250 for the heavy beam), they do less damage than kluth beams but also have faster recharge times and do each rounds damage over less time, this is balenced out by a 40% falloff at max range ( meaning your beam will do less damage the further away from your target you fire, at the beams max range your damage roll will be reduced by 40%.)
Just like kluth ugto has the standard type beam, a midlevel beam tht has damage numbers of exactly x2 the standard beam. and the heavy beam which does the damage of 4 standard beams. UGTO midlevel beam is called the FLUX beam and does normal damage but in addition also deals system damage when hitting armor or hull. While not as effective as the EMP cannon it can and does work very well.
ICC is a faction that does best fighting at longer ranges, so makes sense that their beams will be the worst. Best way to visualize how bad they are is to see for yourself, destroyer level standard beam, 5.4 second recharge, 3k-5400 damage, 140 range, 50% falloff. You see the problem here? Standard beam does not work effectly as a weapon, as it does far too little damage over too long of a time. Also now that every faction has a pulse beam type PD laser, ICC no longer has a special beam of any kind. THey have standard beam and heavy beam. No special midlevel ones at all.
Now I agree 100% that icc beams should be the weakest in the game and im not saying they are currently useless, just very weak and unappealing. Im not proposing any change to icc beam DPS either, Instead ALL ICC beams should use pulse beam technology in that they deal all their damage at once instead of over time. For example the destroyer beam i mentioned earlier, 5.4 recharge time, 3k-5400 damage with 50% falloff just like before, but instead of firing and holding beams on target for the 5.4 seconds of firing. it does a quick zap and damage is done all at once. Now since the recharge times and damage are the same this does little to change the icc beams DPS, but it would greatly help icc beam ships to deal damage more effectivly, trying to hold a very low range beam on target for 5.4 seconds is difficult and usually results in the low damage being unnoticed and buried in the targets armor regen.
IMO this change would be easy and make ICC beams unique instead of just a much weaker version of UGTO beams. This change would also make up for the fact that ICC has no midlevel beam of any kind.
PART 2
Also beams are missing targets somtimes. Test this please, take an ICC storm cruiser, which is all beams.. As you may have seen before, beams hit different spots on the targets ship model each round of fire to look good graphicly. Take the storm cruiser and attack a kluth spire platform. Every few rounds the beams will completeley miss and fire to the side. No damage at all is dealt and combat timer continues to count down. This is NOT the only time this glitch occurs but this example is VERY easy for an admin to test and see what i am talking about.
So please do the test i provided, and youll see that beams are somtimes missing target and dealing no damage. After confirming this is will be easy fix tho, just take out that "over to the side" beam fire graphic
Thnks jason
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2014-12-16 23:38
Having ICC beams deal their damage over a shorter period of time seems reasonable.
I would suggest something further, though.
The smaller ICC ships like frigates and destroyers should have the shortest duration, dealing their damage in a quick burst, but with the same wait time as they have.
The larger ICC ships however should keep a long duration beam so that they can't insta-pop smaller ships.
Perhaps ICC could get a mid-level combat beam included with their loadouts that fires in a pulse?
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2014-12-17 02:15
ICC gets the weakest combat beams in exchange for the best point defence beams.
Instantaneous beam damage would be crazy overpowered and would easily insta gib in a lot of situations.
I don't think its possible for a beam to miss when fired within its proper parameters. You have to make sure you are within range, within arc, and the beam is not hitting anything else first before your target. The beam visual is just an effect that has nothing to do with the damage that is applied, and is still often drawn incorrectly. The beam visual "scatter effect" is generated by targeting random gadgets on the target ship, so a ship with only a handful of gadgets in similar locations like the luth spire platform will occassionally by chance generate a visual where all the beams appear to be hitting off to a single side.
Of course you can also blame the problem on "de-sync" which is apparently the source of all the bugs in an otherwise completely bug free game. The "beam missing" bug may be in the same family as the fighters that don't launch bug, the missiles that don't launch bug, the mines that don't launch bug, and the buildings that don't upgrade bug.
edit: I would however, not be opposed to a unique mid level ICC beam that quickly inflicts its damage (not instantaneous). Maybe something in the ball park of 50% of the active time for slightly more damage than the light beams do. Might be a great weapon to have on the rapid assault destroyer where you dive in and don't have a lot of time to inflict your damage before the enemy goes out of arc or out of range.
[ This Message was edited by: Chewy Squirrel on 2014-12-17 02:22 ]
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2014-12-17 12:31
I do not understand the issue here. Beams have damage over time for exactly this reason. It means you can't just do a quick flyby and deal all of your damage without stopping.
Keeping your beams on target is part of the skill of using beams, just like doding incoming fire is part of the skill for cannons and torpedoes. What you're proposing would be similar to making ICC cannons and torpedoes have instant hit effects just because their DPS isn't as high.
The entire ICC philosophy is to outmaneuver your enemy to avoid or deal fire in ways that the other factions cannot. This ability to outmaneuver other factions is exactly the reason that keeping your beams on target shouldn't be an issue. Your extreme turning rate and acceleration can easily outmatch any equal class ship, allowing you to hound it with your beams until it slows down or jumps away.
I have had no issues flying the storm cruiser or the RAD to full effect. Their absurd turn rates make it very easy to keep my beams on target for their full period. I sometimes have issues in K'luth ships and often have issues in UGTO ships for the opposite reason. The ICC should easily be able to outmaneuver anyone else.
I'm putting this down to a simple lack of skill on your part if you think this is an issue.
[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator on 2014-12-17 13:36 ]
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2014-12-21 09:27
yea on second thot instant damage may be a bit much for som icc ships, however the second part of my post needs looked at, i can assure you its not desync or any other mistake being made by me, i know sounds wrong but try it please, ive recreated it over and over and over. All need to do is sit still with say a storm cruiser, zap a plat until you see the beam graphic shoot to one side or another, no damage will be dealt combat timer is notaffect cause beams are missing, the little red burn mark that indicates a beam hit is even missing, please check i promise im right about this.
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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
| Posted: 2014-12-21 12:03
I can understand the beams missing...and being glitchy? Needing to be addressed. Sounds like a problem...
I think I've even encountered some fights where the beams just didnt do damage for some reason. I assume it has more to do with desync and enemies being either out of your arc but not being displayed properly or their out of range but the games desync doesnt show it. As this has happened in fights where I was on the move.
Since this is happening to plats...don't know what to say there if its without movement.
The graphics on the other hand isnt really tied to gun accuracy as much as people would think though. It could be some sort of weird enemy location tracking glitch or something but the graphic itself isnt whats responsible for something like that. Would have to say that it should be looked into...
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2014-12-21 16:38
I really just can't replicate the issue you're talking about. If this happens in any particular pattern it would be very helpful for you to describe it. Screenies or video of it happening would be brilliant too.
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