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This has got to stop. |
TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
|  Posted: 2014-11-16 00:12
Whatever torp the Kluth have, and are doing with it has almost no warning or way to def against it. One hit and your dead. My Super carrier hull dropped to 60% in one round. engies are insta kill, and no warning.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2014-11-16 02:45
Siege torpedo gadgets, draining possibly double or triple the current energy rates, having 1 less projectile (for a total of 3), and shooting signature up by 80-100 during recharge (per gadget), would be a good nerf. Also, put a delay between activating the gadget and projectiles actually firing (preferably 2-3 seconds), and increase minimum firing range from 50% to 70% of maximum range, to give more warning time for the engies and other fragile folks.
End product:- A fairly high damage ammo based weapon, eating up massive energy to fire regularly, and preventing K'Luth from being able to partially cloak and fire more than 1 gadget just before fully cloaking up. Effective range reduced to reflect the unstable high power payload being fired by scouts, frigates and dreads (21 core torpedoes are still 21 core torpedoes).
And maybe a 5 gu speed boost to balance everything mentioned above, and to prevent people from cloudbombing with 2 salvos of firepower (nerf is in the air~)
Large AoE core weapons on frigate sized ships will never be nerfed enough. Just saying.
[ This Message was edited by: Forger of Destiny on 2014-11-16 02:55 ]
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Jhomes
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 22, 2013
Posts: 92
| Posted: 2014-11-18 02:10
Subject 1.
First off i LOVE the idea of seige torpedos. Its a great solution to the plat spam and station spam problem.
But theres a huge difference between luth seige torps and icc and ugto ones that needs to be addressed. Any stationary ship, even a dread orbiting its friendly planet is an easy 1 shot kill for any smart luth. They are firing at you before you even see them and u have no time to move or even turn away to jump. First problem is Kluth ones have arming range of 400 and max range of 800, this actually makes them much more dangerous than icc or ugto ones, as you have much less time to move out of the splash zone. Second problem is the 70k stock max damage which is x4 for each seige torp slot. ICC seige torps stock max damage is 26k. Now kluth players have already said to me well the recharge times on luth seige torps are much longer and ICC seige torps fire alot faster. Ok kluth ones are around 70 seconds and icc ones are around 54 seconds. You see the problem here? Kluth fire once and have no need at all to hang around for another shot or simply cloak and wait. ICC ships would have to hang around for another 50 somthing seconds before getting another shot. Recharge times are irrelevant when you dont need to fire a second time. A third problem is that kluth ships get more weapons per ship than their ugto or icc variants. Each extra bomb slot a kluth ship gets is another 4 capital torpedos hitting you.
SOLUTION 1. make ALL factions seige torps the same ranges, same damage and same reload times. IF kluth ones are not too powerful then make everyones equal and see what kluth says then.
Solution 2. Simply change seige torps from pure area damage to pure direct damage. Making them still work as intended for platform and station spam but making it much harder for to use as an ambush weapon that can 1 shot kill a dread.
Subject 2.
This has actually always bothered me, WHY do kluth ships get more weapon slots per ship than ugto or icc but not less of anything else?? Do luth ships somehow get more gadget points or do luth weapons cost less gadget points?? If a ship has more weapons it should have less armor units but that generally is not the case with luth ships. A faction that is supposed to use hit and run tactics to surprise enemy with their powerful weapons and do damage quickly, but not supposed to be able to win a straight fight with human ships as their armor is supposed to be inferior. Kluth ships do have less HP in armor units but its only slightly less. Organic luth armor has exact same hp as icc reactive shields (116k for a dread), and kluth chitin armor has same HP as ICC armor (140k for a dread). There are even kluth tank ships that are incredibly hard to kill but still get more weapons per ship. Kluth scale is great example of this. Has same armor of its icc and ugto variants but gets equivilant of 8 heavy cannons instead of 6. Another example is ICC combat dread has 10 heavy railguns and 2 ion cannons. On combat dreads best fire arc it can fire 8 heavy guns and 2 ion cannons for equivilant of 14 heavy guns at once for its side fire. Kluth variant of combat dread is Krill, which has 5 heavy guns and 4 capital cannons, which is equivilant of 17 heavy guns which it not only fires forwards but fires all weapons but one psi cannon aft as well.
I have rambled on long enough, the point is kluth not only gets more damage per second on all of their weapons but also get alot more weapons per ship, why is there no tradeoff for this?
Thanks to anyone who actually read this far.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2014-11-18 03:47
Can agree here. Shorter range is an advantage, not a disadvantage, with siege torpedos, and higher alpha is always going to be better than lower alpha for an alpha damage weapon.
I like the idea of making all siege torpedos identical in the damage department.
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-DBS
Marshal
Joined: January 04, 2011
Posts: 204
From: St. Petersburg, FL
| Posted: 2014-11-18 10:10
Luth also have twice the cooldown for these torps. They are very slow and don't track. This is a team based game. Cover your allies and stop camping... Evolve or die!
-DBS
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2014-11-18 17:05
Quote:
On 2014-11-18 02:10, Jhomes wrote:
This has actually always bothered me, WHY do kluth ships get more weapon slots per ship than ugto or icc but not less of anything else?? Do luth ships somehow get more gadget points or do luth weapons cost less gadget points??
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Luth ships generally have more weapons but less coverage, take a look at the firing arcs on one and compare it to the equivalent ICC and UGTO ships.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2014-11-18 17:31
Quote:
On 2014-11-18 02:10, Jhomes wrote:
but not less of anything else??
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armor.
and with cloak, kluth have historically been set up to be front-loaded in terms of damage. show up, suckerpunch someone in the ass with all their fore-arc weapons, and then disappear while their weapons cycle, and their energy regens, and they reposition for another kick in the nuts.
generally speaking, they're not designed for a knockdown drag out fight
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2014-11-18 18:14
Quote:
On 2014-11-18 17:31, Doran wrote:
armor.
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This is the correct answer, but unfortunately he isn't going to understand why it is without some explanation.
The reason why we claim that K'luth armor is their weakness despite it being buffed up to near human values isn't because of any intrinsic property of the armor. Rather, it is because the human armor and shields are better. No, they don't have more health. What they do have, though, is enhanced resistance to fire (effectively doubling HP on UGTO) and absurdly fast regeneration rates (healing what would take minutes in a few seconds).
Few players will deny that the UGTO armor is very powerful when used correctly, but many more will claim that the ICC's shields are woefully underpowerd. If you look at just the HP values then yes they do appear to be very weak. However, ICC shields do not lend themselves to the same combat strategies that the other armor types permit. With shields you shouldn't be trying to tank all the damage output by the enemy until they die. This approach will almost invariably fail.
Instead, you should make maximum use of your high regeneration.
Just a few examples:
While playing in a cruiser you lose all of your HP. No problem. Jump 10K GU out and turn around. Once your JD is back up, jump back into the battle... with 100% shields.
You're playing in a large battle in a dread. Dreads don't lend themselves to the previous tactic very well, but some coordination with your allies can produce a similar effect. Have two or more of your allies come between you and the enemies while you pull back. After the OOC timer runs out you will regenerate your shields very quickly. Once your shields are back, take the place of one of your protecting dreads and let them regen. In this manner you can make any long range standoffs with you completely inviable, and with a bit of practice you can do the same in an assault.
Take out a combat dread and change all the normal shields to reactive, and all the auxillary generators to shields. You might have to put PFE engines on to compensate, but the result will be a brick that your enemies will have a hard time destroying. Even without the OOC boost you will find yourself shrugging off enemy attacks, and using the previous strategy in conjunction with this will make a group of three CDs almost invulnerable.
Those are just a few examples. I'll leave it up to you to find more ways to exploit your massive regeneration, but the key to playing the ICC is to remember that you can't just assume you can slug it out with the enemy and win. You can't.
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