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UGTO AI & Kluth AI |
Tacheyon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 5
|  Posted: 2013-12-07 13:52
Okay so I've finally seen AI in game today other then just transports. I got swarmed by Kluth AI, 3 dessie, 1 Crusier, 2 Dread and a Hive. There were only two UGTO players that I was aware of. And did check to see who was around after that swarm of AI. How is that an appropriate response to a UGTO Dread and Dessie?
And I have never, not once seen any UTGO AI since the new patch was out, and I have been the only UGTO on the server. I frankly don't believe they spawn at all other then transports. But I can't say this for sure without proof, so if anyone can show me some recent screenshots of UGTO AI it would be appreicated.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-12-07 14:00
by the way, if you want AI, you must have a SY in that constellation.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-12-07 14:25
I have seen K'luth Combat Ai in Kaus Borealis and Tetra.
Somehow it seems lacking in Barnard's Star or Epsilon Caranie.
I have seen ai ICC transports, but even after making distress calls have not seen any Combat ICC ai response even before platforms were maxed at 30.
1) What are the exact prerequisites for combat Ai of any faction to appear?
Shipyard,
Distress Call?
2) is 30 the absolute maximum limit of all ai in a server on each faction including platforms, trading utility vessels as well as patrolling combat vessels?
3) does maxing platforms in a sector/server (eg 30) mean that existing ship ai including transports and extractors destroy themselves on planets?
4) Is there any way to 'choose' what ai appear eg utility (transport/extractor/engineer) or combat class (scout/destroyer/cruiser/dread/station)?
5) (Similar to above question) Is there any way to replace existing transports with combat ai and vice versa? (eg stopping planet resource import/export)
These are just some questions that would be useful to have answered.
Thanks. : )
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2013-12-07 15:10
The AI spawning algorithems are almost certainly broken.... but I'm not complaining. I like it better this way.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-12-07 17:04
Transports are spawned when a Starport is placed on a planet. They are not counted in the AI poll.
We tally all players on each faction, get the score (defined by their rank). We then get the difference between the highest and the other two faction, and attempt to spawn ships to fill that gap if there is a Shipyard present. If not, no AI will be spawned : this is to aid defending factions and present more of a challange to attacking ones.
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Kestalkayden
Marshal
Joined: June 04, 2005
Posts: 85
| Posted: 2013-12-07 18:37
Pantheon, while I am sure there is a complex formula involved, I think it may need to have a look at.
As an Ugto in Critium 32 Major A and Andosia (On the Ugto end), I had the luxury of being able to cap 3 AI Hives today that suddenly jumped in one after another.
This was after killing off a few AI dreads and even an AI Nest and AI Colony. Along with swarms of frigates/dessy's and a sizeable amount of AI transports that were showing up.
On the flip side, when other factions seem to have a sizeable force vs our own, I see little to no AI support. At least not what I had experienced today.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2013-12-07 19:34
I don't know about you all. But I kind of liked having it being player vs player in combat with AI being absent.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-12-07 19:48
Last night a K'Luth ranked 68th capped a single sy planet in sol. I came in and could not so much as attempt a recap with infantry for the instantaneous spawning of ai.
I have yet to see ai spawn to help defend anyone ever. I only see it when one team INVADES another server and aquires a sy.
I have seen this time and again, on my side and the red guys, as K'Luth and as UGTO.
With all due respect, your coding is not working properly. I say this because it does not perform the way you have described it, but actually 180* the other way.
It literally made me unable to defend Sol last night.
Oh, and I have also tried logging in with a lower alt account. It has absolutely ZERO effect on the ai, from what I have seen, once they begin spawning. They spawn at the same numbers until
1. the ENTIRE server is capped completely.
2. They lose all their ship yards to spawn from.
I like what ya'll are TRYING or WANTING to do with ai. But that isnt the REALITY of what we are experiencing.
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Tacheyon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2013-12-07 23:50
That mean you have seen UGTO AI Azreal?
And yes DeipLuc there was a SY, the only UGTO in that system that we were defending.
[ This Message was edited by: Tacheyon on 2013-12-07 23:54 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-12-08 03:15
just last weekend i saw plenty of ugto ai. They capped 3 systems after 1 player managed to cap 1 sy planet in BD. In fact, with 8 rl players we had hell recapping back from this "balanced" ai.
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Kestalkayden
Marshal
Joined: June 04, 2005
Posts: 85
| Posted: 2013-12-08 08:47
Another example today in Sol. There was a kluth dread in there. We tried taking back some of Ugto planets in the HOME system and what do I see? 2 hives, 1 colony, 2 ai dreads and waves of smaller ships -- All AI.
That was more than what we had. It made something that shouldn't have taken us that long a tedious chore.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-12-08 13:54
To Quote Azreal:
I have yet to see ai spawn to help defend anyone ever. I only see it when one team INVADES another server and aquires a sy.
I may have mentioned this before but when Marshalrol and myself capped Earth in Sol early into 1.7 there were 2-4 of us on ICC and about 2 UGTO defenders (that we could see). We were at times either on par with numbers (unsure about defenders rank) or slightly outnumbering the defenders and as soon as we had the Shipyard on Venus We received ICC ai Station/dread and other ship support and we easily overwhelmed the defense. It felt wrong and a bit unfair for the defense. I did not see any UGTO ai at that time.
This to me indicates that something may be wrong.
However I cannot guarantee that we were not outnumbered/outranked by other UGTO players who may have been elsewhere on the same server but did not respond to Earth's invasion and distress calls. That may have been the case as it would explain the 'over the top' amount of ai assistance our small strike team had but I kind of doubt that would be the case, I mean, this is Earth we are talking about and who wouldn't fight tooth and nail over Her Liberation?
Dear Sweet Mother Earth...
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan [OO-XI] on 2013-12-08 13:57 ]
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Tacheyon
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 5
| Posted: 2013-12-08 15:57
Okay, so this only happens between the Servers, not Star systems right? Because as I said I have defended the sole SY in a star system more then a few times and not gained any AI support.
[ This Message was edited by: Tacheyon on 2013-12-08 16:01 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-12-08 16:16
perhaps the server recognizes the invader as the defender, since they are, after all, literally "down to their last sy in that server". Just a thought.
Maybe the issue is actually WHO is considered to be the defender.
Are servers considered somewhere in the code to be faction specific? even in the home servers? Who does Luyten "belong to"? How would it deteremine if the 1 green planet is a defender or an invader?
I log into BD, and all the planets but 1 are green. Is my side pushing or being invaded? How does the game figure THIS out?
am I making sense?
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2013-12-08 16:23 ]
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-12-08 16:48
As I understand it each sector (server) is made up of of three star systems connected by 'blue line' transfer gates. Each sector (server) is connected to another sector (server) with a 'brown line' transfer gate.
Ai is self contained on each sector (server) No more than 30 platforms or 30 ai vessels (remember platforms count as ai) or a combination of the two can exist.
Ai do not cross servers.
ai utility vessels are not counted towards this ai limit (cap) total.
Eg:
there can be 20 platforms which means only 10 ai combat ships will be able to spawn.
If platforms are maxed at 30, NO ai Combat support ships are able to spawn.
Other resource trading/mining (possibly engineering ai) are able to operate within the three systems as they do not contribute to this limit of 30.
It is therefore possible that with the combination of rank and number of players added together with numerous platforms dotted around all over all three systems in a server prevent combat ai being spawned to assist the player who sends the distress.
May I therefore suggest that the number of players and their total rank points be made available as a displayed number on the map screen where ship numbers and types are listed, so that should a player decide they want combat ai, they would be able to see what is preventing its creation and be able to direct other player forces to be useful elsewhere in another server in order to receive that ai assistance in the initial server.
This however would ruin the element of surprise as it would therefore be possible to 'work out' how many enemy players are in the same server as you. This would negate the ability to truly launch a surprise attack.
I am therefore undecided as to the best option. I like it as it is, the lack of ai is a good thing for more player to player interaction but on the other hand ai support for heavily outnumbered defenders should be available.
The equation which generates ai is complicated by the fact that people logging in and out, and moving from server to server (as well as the recent crashes which result in random player log offs) continually must shift this 'rank/number' point average.
What happens to a ship just spawned to respond to distress when a new player joins that faction thus reinforcing it and bumping up the 'rank/number' point average making that ship 'void'?
Does it self destruct just outside it's spawn point? does it plummet into the nearest planet?
Maybe the equation itself in an endless effort to balance the sides is the very thing which is causing the ai to never reach the ship which called it because due to the ai limits, new platforms being built as well as players leaving/joining server continually means ships just don't manage to get out of their spawn zones as they are quickly 'cancelled' due to the rank/number point average changing constantly...
Maybe this very problem is related to the groups invites being a little buggy as people now leave (drop) groups when they cross server, even if just for a while.
Now I'm confused... what's going on? : /
[ This Message was edited by: Orkan [OO-XI] on 2013-12-08 16:54 ]
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