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Missiles are broken |
Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
|  Posted: 2013-07-08 01:13
Hey,
I've made some pretty images in paint detailing just how broken missile tracking is.
TLDR; It doesn't turn hard enough to hit, even though it's capable of hitting.
That's the missile flight path. Trail made blue for visibility, it shows that the missiles are intentionally not turning enough, barely missing the target and then turning very hard to attempt to hit it. They do this with targets of most sizes.
Same missiles, side on. Blue is the path that the missiles took, Red is the path that they should have used(and are capable of using)
Please fix the tracking code. It's literally the biggest handicap/nerf to missiles in the game now.
My suggestion would be to revert to the old, dumb tracking code when the target is within 150gu or so - fly straight at the target. this fancy target prediction stuff (presumeably) takes up more CPU power and doesn't even work properly.
EDIT: This is not exclusive to Dread-missiles. This was happening to extremely maneuverable Anti-radar interceptor missiles against slow moving targets too.
It's not because of the range, either. Same style of very close miss at 550gu.
[ This Message was edited by: iwancoppa on 2013-07-08 01:37 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-07-08 02:55
I can confirm this.
The closer a missile gets to facing the target, the less it will turn.
This leaves missiles unable to hit stationary targets unless the range is extreme enough for that turn soothing to at least reach an angle that the target hitbox covers.
In short, the missiles never actually quite face the target, ever.
They get gradually closer, but they never just point directly at the damn thing.
This is, of course, only true with arcing missiles and missiles fired indirectly.
The straight-firing kluth missiles have no issues at all in this department unless they fire at an odd angle.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-07-08 02:57 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-07-08 03:12
Quote:
On 2013-07-08 02:55, Fluttershy wrote:
In short, the missiles never actually quite face the target, ever.
They get gradually closer, but they never just point directly at the damn thing.[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-07-08 02:57 ]
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That's the root of the problem.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-07-08 05:14
is it possible to use 2 different tracking codes based on range?
beyond 500 gu, missiles use the tracking code that they currently do now and fly where the ship should be some time later (saves missile fuel).
within 500 gu, missiles use a simpler tracking code to try and always fly straight to the target.
for benefit of others, ill mention that smart projectiles (bombs, missiles, fighters, MI torpedoes) use the go-straight-to-target tracking when their target is not a player (it may be an infantry on a planet, an asteroid or even another bomb/missile/fighter).
missiles dont pose a serious threat to cruisers and destroyers right now. implementing a better tracking would help out missile ships.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-07-08 17:42
While that would be ideal, I'll bet that it would be too CPU intensive.
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2013-07-09 04:50
Quote:
On 2013-07-08 05:14, Trader of Destiny wrote:
missiles dont pose a serious threat to cruisers and destroyers right now. implementing a better tracking would help out missile ships.
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Except for those straight firing, insane tracking, firable from 150gu luth missiles that can hit me in a speed tweaked cruiser if I stop paying attention for a second.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2013-07-09 04:59
yes, funny how shrouds never seem to have trouble hitting consistently...
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-07-09 10:17
Missle hits cruiser, but it often misses destroyer.
It's not about speed, it's about size. It's quite easy to see although moving at same speed, anything smaller than cruiser barely, even not, get hit by missle.
It's also about range. The closer the target, the harder for missle to hit it.
I usually manually detonate missle so I don't have the problem with the speed nor size of ship. The most annoying issue with missle occurs right when it misses the target: it keeps flying in circle and then auto destroy when its life reaches the limit time.
Missle does not continue to track the target after it fails the first approach. And it's the main issue with missle.
I wonder if there is any way to make missle as smart as fighter.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2013-07-09 23:56
This has been known for quite some time now. We briefly had a different type of missile guidance in Beta, where they flew in a sidewinder pattern--turning left, then right, each time reversing direction when they detected they were no longer pointed at the target. The closer and closer the got the more frequently they checked. This guidance system was exceedingly accurate...
...except it broke fighters horribly, because they use the exact same code.
This is part of why missiles in 1.7 will not be expected or intended to hit anything smaller than a Cruiser, and for the most part will be meant for use against Dreadnoughts and Stations.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-07-10 04:00
Try making it so that missiles launch with a low velocity, but speed up as they get down range. Turn rate could stay constant, so they get on track better, but have trouble tracking fast targets the further they go.
Missile turn rates should then be tweaked so that unintended targets can avoid missiles by flying perpendicular at a speed which is at least the max of the next ship higher to them. (A destroyer could outright avoid being hit by cruiser-intended missiles by flying 20+)
Just an idea ^^
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2013-07-10 08:26
Quote:
On 2013-07-09 23:56, Jim Starluck wrote:
This has been known for quite some time now. We briefly had a different type of missile guidance in Beta, where they flew in a sidewinder pattern--turning left, then right, each time reversing direction when they detected they were no longer pointed at the target. The closer and closer the got the more frequently they checked. This guidance system was exceedingly accurate...
...except it broke fighters horribly, because they use the exact same code.
This is part of why missiles in 1.7 will not be expected or intended to hit anything smaller than a Cruiser, and for the most part will be meant for use against Dreadnoughts and Stations.
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Couldnt you just seperate the codeing of the two? Easy enough matter to just copy the code as it is now and set it so fighters check off of that and set modified one for just missles.
I also think missles should be tuned to the speed of their launching ship (expection of stats) to a max of 150% of its max stock speed so we wouldnt have dread missles hitting scouts with the new code 
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Admiral C. Wilson
Admiral
Joined: July 06, 2010
Posts: 262
From: Arkansas
| Posted: 2013-07-10 22:03
I have seen this, I never use missile ships anymore as it is anyway
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2013-07-10 23:55
Quote:
On 2013-07-10 08:26, Soulless *CO* wrote:
Couldnt you just seperate the codeing of the two? Easy enough matter to just copy the code as it is now and set it so fighters check off of that and set modified one for just missles.
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Better fighter code has been on the To-Do list for pretty much the last 10 years. It would be ideal, yes, but it would also require dedicated code work from Faustus to accomplish.
Quote:
I also think missles should be tuned to the speed of their launching ship (expection of stats) to a max of 150% of its max stock speed so we wouldnt have dread missles hitting scouts with the new code
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This one would be a Bad Idea. That would make Dreadnought missiles take roughly 2 minutes to reach their maximum range. Unless we gave them an insanely long cooldown and insanely high damage, you'd wind up with a very large number of missiles in flight at once, which is a severe strain on the server. Currently, we aim to keep only 1-2 salvos in flight at once.
It wouldn't be hard to optimize it so even with improved guidance code, large ship missiles still had trouble hitting smaller ships, but getting that improved guidance code in requires significant code changes, so it's off the table for the forseeable future.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-07-16 05:23
it is not that the missiles are not capable of hitting nearby (within 400 gu) objects. one can hit a stationary transport or frigate from 350 gu by aiming for a spot maybe 10 gu before it.
we might not need separate tracking codes for missiles, just one that can aim more properly.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-07-16 10:33
The tracking code is fine, the problem is latency and polling rates.
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