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Where's all the ICC love? |
DiepLuc Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010 Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-05-20 08:39  
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darkemotion 1st Rear Admiral
Joined: May 19, 2013 Posts: 4
| Posted: 2013-05-20 09:43  
food?
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-20 10:05  
De-neutering Pulse Shield is literally the only thing ICC needs right now.
Personally I'd turn Reactives back into the lower HP, faster regen, lower energy use, global damage resist shields they were before with a bit more HP but that's just me. I'd also scrap Skirmish, but turning them into a shield that adds no signature and has less HP would work too for use with ECM.
_________________ Adapt or die.
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PsyCrow Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012 Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-20 16:56  
I don't see the problem with their shields, but the pulse wave needs a definite boost, and tbh it should apply to all projectiles, not just a tiny fraction of fighters and missiles.
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-20 18:23  
Turning ICC shields into a rotateable equivalent of UGTO armor was a bad idea, and I'd said that from the start. It was great that Frob wanted to do something with shields but that just wasn't a good way to go about it, the only thing that was really needed was a bit more HP for Reactives, everything else was fine as it was.
The way they are now is a jumbled mess. We have Active with the highest HP but no resistances, the highest signature, and the highest energy use.
Reactives have lower HP with a resistance to energy and weakness to kinetic, the lowest energy use, and lowest signature.
And Skirmish have HP on par with Reactives with weakness to energy and resistance to kinetic, but higher power use and higher signature. If Reactives and Skirmish are two sides of the same coin like Ablative and Reflective armor are for UGTO, they should have the same stats with the weakness/resistance flipped but that is not the case.
_________________ Adapt or die.
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PsyCrow Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012 Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-20 18:56  
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 18:23, Talien wrote:
Turning ICC shields into a rotateable equivalent of UGTO armor was a bad idea, and I'd said that from the start. It was great that Frob wanted to do something with shields but that just wasn't a good way to go about it, the only thing that was really needed was a bit more HP for Reactives, everything else was fine as it was.
The way they are now is a jumbled mess. We have Active with the highest HP but no resistances, the highest signature, and the highest energy use.
Reactives have lower HP with a resistance to energy and weakness to kinetic, the lowest energy use, and lowest signature.
And Skirmish have HP on par with Reactives with weakness to energy and resistance to kinetic, but higher power use and higher signature. If Reactives and Skirmish are two sides of the same coin like Ablative and Reflective armor are for UGTO, they should have the same stats with the weakness/resistance flipped but that is not the case.
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-Active shields are like the all-around average stock shield, good if you don't know what to expect.
-Reactive shields are kinda like a sneaky stealth shield to let you get into beam range and hold a bit of an advantage in that scenario.
-Skirmish shields are a shield best for long range standoffs where you are out where cannons and missiles will be the primary sources of damage.
tbh it could be simplified with two shield types, a tough one with more hp and slower regen, and a weak one with significantly higher regen.
I think this is how it was before? The old reactive shields seemed to have an odd weakness to some weapon type, I really didn't understand that.
Just having two shields which swap total hp for shield recharge time would be ok, leaving all the damage resistance and signature differences alone.
Whatever it is, it would need to be tested, and most of the time though, things come down to player skill and the makeup of the teams. [ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-20 18:57 ]
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-20 22:22  
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 18:56, PsyCrow wrote:
tbh it could be simplified with two shield types, a tough one with more hp and slower regen, and a weak one with significantly higher regen.
I think this is how it was before? The old reactive shields seemed to have an odd weakness to some weapon type, I really didn't understand that.
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Previously Actives had 15% global resists with higher HP, and reactives had 25% resists to almost everything but had low HP and a weakness to EMP and ELF. The global damage resistance was balanced out by not being able to repair them in combat like armor, it was a system that already was working and just needed a few minor tweaks instead of a total overhaul.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2013-05-20 22:22 ]
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PsyCrow Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012 Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-20 22:25  
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 22:22, Talien wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 18:56, PsyCrow wrote:
tbh it could be simplified with two shield types, a tough one with more hp and slower regen, and a weak one with significantly higher regen.
I think this is how it was before? The old reactive shields seemed to have an odd weakness to some weapon type, I really didn't understand that.
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Previously Actives had 15% global resists with higher HP, and reactives had 25% resists to almost everything but had low HP and a weakness to EMP and ELF. The global damage resistance was balanced out by not being able to repair them in combat like armor, it was a system that already was working and just needed a few minor tweaks instead of a total overhaul.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2013-05-20 22:22 ]
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that seems very counter-intuitive for a lower hp shield to have higher damage resistances.
Wouldn't it have been easier to give the reactive shields the same hp as actives, but with a severe weakness to ELF and EMP?
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Talien Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 2044 From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-20 22:39  
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 22:25, PsyCrow wrote:
that seems very counter-intuitive for a lower hp shield to have higher damage resistances.
Wouldn't it have been easier to give the reactive shields the same hp as actives, but with a severe weakness to ELF and EMP?
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Reactives also had lower energy use and faster regen rate to balance out the lower HP. They were perfect for smaller ships that got hit less often, even though the energy use while recharging was the same as Actives. Infact that was the only thing that was actually wrong with Reactives, even the low HP was overlooked by most of the experienced ICC players as we knew how to make the most of them.
_________________ Adapt or die.
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Point Of No Return Chief Marshal United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 24, 2007 Posts: 78
| Posted: 2013-05-21 19:23  
omg luts trying to convince people just how an opposing factions equipment should be to make them easier to kill and get prestige.Please keep your Ideas on something yoou dont choose to use to yourselves because wwe who fly these ships dont need your help in how our ships are in combat.
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Point Of No Return Chief Marshal United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 24, 2007 Posts: 78
| Posted: 2013-05-21 19:23  
omg luts trying to convince people just how an opposing factions equipment should be to make them easier to kill and get prestige.Please keep your Ideas on something yoou dont choose to use to yourselves because wwe who fly these ships dont need your help in how our ships are in combat.
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Fidchell Admiral
Joined: August 02, 2003 Posts: 8 From: united states
| Posted: 2013-05-21 22:32  
On the matter of rotation of shields I find it much improved from just having them be static all the time. It provides me with a greater range of options when I am being attacked from a few sides. Do i focus my shields to the siphon? do i focus them on the mandible? do i focus them on the EAD or BD? these are strategic decisions that can be made by rotating the shields. It does require some micromanagement. However, I believe every faction has different concerns as it relates to micromanagement. For K'luth they need to be aware of their energy consumption rate, especially for siphons, because even with the energy draining weapons the energy will still deplete at almost alarming levels if you are not careful.
For UGTO they must be aware of incoming fire from all sides and try to figure out exactly how much their armor can take before they must retreat, since they do not have the secondary survival methods of Shields or a Cloak.
On the whole I find ICC to be reasonably balanced in this patch but I do agree that the pulse shield is quite useless. The only reason i can ever find to use it is if I just warped into a swarm of fighters.
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Orkan [OO-XII] Grand Admiral The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010 Posts: 201 From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-05-22 13:53  
Regarding the Killboard...
I think it goes to show that ICC have had many veteran and promising members of their Admiralty away on shore leave on Exathra, hey we're all human right? Sometimes we just gotta kick back : )
Regarding Pulse Shield...
Yes, this definitely needs some form of improvement. Presently we often use it like a victory flare rather than where it should be and that is in combat!
Regarding rotational shields...
I like these the way they are, Many of our vessels lack armour in key places and the ability to rotate these shields to cover our vulnerable areas is vital for survival. This 'micromanagement' is how it should be - remember X-Wing n Tie Fighter series? - you know that!
Skirmish, Active and Reactive Shields
These suffer from poor 'descriptions' rather than poor design. Presently Shields and other gadgets in game are not very well explained. Due to version changes over time it is not easy to understand these and how to best use them especially for the new players.
This is also what E-war suffers from, a lack of clear description, explanation and practical advice on what the exact effects of various gadgets are upon all ship systems as well as the relationships between energy, signature and so on.
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Pantheon Marshal Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001 Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-05-22 16:31  
Quote:
On 2013-05-22 13:53, Orkan ORP wrote:
Regarding the Killboard...
I think it goes to show that ICC have had many veteran and promising members of their Admiralty away on shore leave on Exathra, hey we're all human right? Sometimes we just gotta kick back : )
Regarding Pulse Shield...
Yes, this definitely needs some form of improvement. Presently we often use it like a victory flare rather than where it should be and that is in combat!
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What are you on about? Every ICC player worth anything that I see uses it when it should be used...
Quote:
Regarding rotational shields...
I like these the way they are, Many of our vessels lack armour in key places and the ability to rotate these shields to cover our vulnerable areas is vital for survival. This 'micromanagement' is how it should be - remember X-Wing n Tie Fighter series? - you know that!
Skirmish, Active and Reactive Shields
These suffer from poor 'descriptions' rather than poor design. Presently Shields and other gadgets in game are not very well explained. Due to version changes over time it is not easy to understand these and how to best use them especially for the new players.
This is also what E-war suffers from, a lack of clear description, explanation and practical advice on what the exact effects of various gadgets are upon all ship systems as well as the relationships between energy, signature and so on.
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Shields in general need some attention that will be given before release, in general there's a consensus among the developers that their energy requirements are a tad low, and their HP is a tad high (we're not talking more than 5% either way here ladies and gentlemen, so don't grab your pitchforks).
Everything will be tested to death before 1.7 is released, so don't worry about ridiculous nerfs and buffs.
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Sheraton*XO* Chief Marshal Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013 Posts: 482 From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-05-22 17:18  
In regards to the pulse shield. The Fighters tend to remain outside the range of 300 GU. Also we have to factor in the relatively position of the device on the ship so 300 GU away from us on the display is not necessarily 300 gu from hte device. Also, it's usefullness against missiles not really valid on k'luth because everytime I try to use it on missiles thhey are not destroyed by the pulse shield. Is this lag on my end?
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Twilit Keel Mountains traversed at last we met a dragon who spoke thus: \"Sheraton am I who interprets the signs.\"
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