| Author |
Class-limited garage spaces (And unlocking slots with credits) |
PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
|  Posted: 2013-05-18 12:07
With the current system, you have 8 ship slots that can be used for anything
(In 1.7 this will be increased to 12 for subscribers)
Our current ship storage system allows a player to pull several fully repaired and combat ready stations or dreads in quick succession with no use of resources (except maybe transfer costs)
What I propose (and these numbers are just to give you the gist of the idea) is to have the potential of more than 12 garage spaces, but to limit spaces by class.
Players could start with something like this:
2 station slots, 2 dread slots, 2 cruiser slots, and so on...
Each garage type could be upgraded with credits, for example, 5000 credits to unlock a new station-class slot, and 50 credits to unlock a new scout-class slot.
Each type of garage could be upgraded for a different cost, and would have a cap on how many you can buy, such as only a max of 3 station slots, and 4 dreads slots.
Because smaller ships would have their own devoted storage spaces, there would be NO excuse for higher ranked players not to use them when the situation demands it.
This would also open up an opportunity for credit purchases, and let players outfit more enhanced ships than can be done currently. Players would possibly find it worthwhile to upgrade frigates with enhancements since they can have one in the garage without sacrificing space that could be taken by a dread.
As always, feedback and counter-suggestions are welcome, unexplained "No." posts are not, because they add nothing to the discussion and assume this is a finalized idea that can't be discussed and modified to something more doable.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2013-05-18 12:55
makes sense. i like. implements more use of credits, wich means moooar $$$ palestar. thus better fed devs.
+1
feed the devs!
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Ulven Skyblade
Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: March 04, 2007
Posts: 230
From: Timbo400
| Posted: 2013-05-18 13:17
Sounds very sensible i second that motion.
while typing this i just thought that this might also be linked to fleets. For example that fleets can buy slots for all there members. This would also put some more use into fleets.
was thinking along the line of 10x the credit cost but every member in the fleet gets that extra slot unlocked for as long as they are member.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-05-18 14:17
Regarding garage slots and the over-use of Dreads in game.
It seems to me that the limit of garage spaces plus the cost of removing fitted enhancements leads to a certain stagnation of player playstyle. Once a player attains a certain rank and the ability to command a certain class of ship, without enhancements players are free to use and swap out as many stock ships as they like. Unfortunately it seems the 'downside' (if i can call it that because everybody would want a little boost in ship performance) of enhancements is that once a ship is fitted out with 8 enhancements the ship becomes a 'specialist' type of craft which excels in it's role. This is all well and good as we all want the ability to have 'better' and more customisable ships for different purposes, eg bomber, transport, supply, combat, stealth combat, speed combat, heavy damage combat, heavy defense combat and so on and so forth. See the problem really arises when we have a full garage and many enhancements with many ships already maxed out. It is at this point that we seem to have approach a 'bottleneck' in flexibility and progress. It costs real money and takes time and is a bit fiddly to remove enhancements for a newly needed ship that we may just need for one session or even particular circumstance, (say for instance you are ICC, everyone on your side has logged off and you are faced with multiple K'Luth players in your sector on your own - now would be about that time to grab an undetectable ECM ship with enhancements so you can play cat and mouse with the Luth and play them at their own game) Should your garage be full of Advanced enhancements and 'unique' modifications you will find it very expensive to outfit a new ship to top spec. So what happens?
Most players choose to stick to their Dreads and Stations, cos they're not about to spend money and time on unoutfitting a ship and then refitting a ship just for one session.
As to leaving one slot 'fallow' or 'spare' well that's a waste of a good slot as I could have a top spec enhanced ship for something else that i need to do at times like say an engineer with 8x upgraded build drones.
So the problem as I see it is that as long as there is a limit to garage spaces - which there should be of some kind - players are gonna get 'lazy' once they have all their dreads and stations outfitted. It simply costs real money to undo what is already 'the best' in terms of combat damage and fleet support so it is not done. More spaces for all would encourage more varieties of ship by higher ranked players. Obviously this leads to opportunities for 'pay to win' situations but i would rather be able to have a chance to Duel with a Darkspace Vet in a same class ship if i was new to the game as an Ensign and know that i had a better chance of a 'good time' as well as a possible kill rather than being faced with a player profile who only hangs out in Stations and Dreads SIMPLY because their garage slots are full and they don't want to PAY to LOSE an excellent ship to swap it for a worse one that they again have to PAY to get it back to top spec...
What do you all think?
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-05-18 15:58
Would require significant work. Not for 1.7 or anything in the near future.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2013-05-19 14:06
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Jack. While I would love to have expandable-by-spending-credits garage space, it would take a lot of code work to get it added. As it is right now, only Jack and Faustus have any ability to work with game code, and both of them have day jobs and are only able to work on this in their spare time.
While I would not rule out the possibility of something like this in the future, it will have to remain on a long-term wish-list for the moment.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-05-19 18:38
With the coming 12 slots available for subscribers the immediate problem of lack of ship space should be alleviated so thanks to the Devs for that. Tried it out in Beta and am satisfied that the extra four spaces cater for those extra ships a player might want for different circumstances.
My earlier above post wanted to highlight the fact that with the existing 8 slots the game itself might suffer from a lack of players purchasing new enhancements as their slots are full, ships are enhanced to the max, and there would simply not be anything worthwhile to spend money on to contribute to the game costs save the 'one time use' enhancements such as energy recharge, jump drive refill, ALLY's and so on. I am not sure of how often players actually use these but I'll tell you I'd much rather carry full Infantry than any 'one-time-use' enhancement as I can rebuff capture attempts and board anyone who gets too close to me.
This is especially more important when fighting Pirates, their 250gu range special 'boarding device weapon' when close to their systems makes it a must to have Infantry on board should they get too close.
I also wanted to highlight that the reason for so many players being in Dreads (which some people seem to take as an act of cowardice) is simply cos they are BOUND to them due to the way the game implements credits and garage space.
Remember that people are very emotional and I suggest more abilities to customise ships without affecting performance such as naming vessels, 'possibly' fleet logos on vessels (not 'Luth! - see other thread - ) should be made available so that we can 'Feed the Devs'! I believe many people would pay for unique changes that would give their individual ships, profile or fleet some greater personal character.
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Ray[OU]
Marshal
Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 189
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
| Posted: 2013-05-19 22:10
I would say this WOULD be a good idea but the problem is What about those who have 6 dreads all with Advance Enhancements? What you just delete them and tell them they lost thier money? No no no sir You see i dont just mean for the current players, But what about those who are away but will one day come back and find there 6 EAD's deleted? Imagine how sad they will be. What about those who Play all 3 factions? For those Like myself who play all 3 factions I Have a station and a couple of dreads for all 3 factions, I dont think i would enjoy the game very much if every time i wanted to switch factions and scrap a perfectly good Mandible for Combat dread...Not to mention the money and tideouse time it takes to uninstall and reinstall Enhancements. Lets say you have 3 dreads Assault class 1 for each faction. plus a Commmand dread for 1 faction. If i decided to switch factions the next day and found that my team needed a command vessle id have to scrap the other command vessele for a new one. What if i had it Enhanced? Id have to go to that faction unenhance it then switch back and renhance the new one and by that time the Occasion that i may have needed my command ship may have already passed since Battles in DS dont last very long. Hopefully you understand the delema Here and for those of you who say "dont use dreads" or anything along that line Just do me a favor and shut your mouth it is unessisary just as your Existence. P.S Enjoy the grammer and spelling Error's -Ray
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PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-19 23:14
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 22:10, Supreme Commander~Ray[OU] wrote:
I would say this WOULD be a good idea but the problem is What about those who have 6 dreads all with Advance Enhancements? What you just delete them and tell them they lost thier money? No no no sir You see i dont just mean for the current players, But what about those who are away but will one day come back and find there 6 EAD's deleted? Imagine how sad they will be. What about those who Play all 3 factions? For those Like myself who play all 3 factions I Have a station and a couple of dreads for all 3 factions, I dont think i would enjoy the game very much if every time i wanted to switch factions and scrap a perfectly good Mandible for Combat dread...Not to mention the money and tideouse time it takes to uninstall and reinstall Enhancements. Lets say you have 3 dreads Assault class 1 for each faction. plus a Commmand dread for 1 faction. If i decided to switch factions the next day and found that my team needed a command vessle id have to scrap the other command vessele for a new one. What if i had it Enhanced? Id have to go to that faction unenhance it then switch back and renhance the new one and by that time the Occasion that i may have needed my command ship may have already passed since Battles in DS dont last very long. Hopefully you understand the delema Here and for those of you who say "dont use dreads" or anything along that line Just do me a favor and shut your mouth it is unessisary just as your Existence. P.S Enjoy the grammer and spelling Error's -Ray
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This is one of my biggest concerns.
Some players have all their slots used up by dreads and stations.
How to get around this?
Perhaps refund the players all of their enhancements, and allow a temporary overflow of the item storage.
Also having faction specific garages.
[ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-19 23:15 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-20 00:08
I actually wouldn't much like this idea either, because I'd have permanently empty slots for Dreadnoughts and Stations since I never use them and less slots for everything else because of it.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-21 00:34
Barring storage issues, perhaps a more attractive way to get subscribers would be to offer 16 instead of 12 slots. Just saying...
But it does open up a lot of possiblities.
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PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-23 07:49
The problem with the planned system is that when you have subscription slots filled, and the subscription expires, you cannot launch any ships until you delete them down to the non-subscriber level. If you had enhancements on all of them, well, you gotta either sub again or wince and delete your ships.
If we could buy garage expansions ala carte, then there's no risk of the subscription ending locking you out of the game and forcing you into a really undesirable spot.
Fine, don't have it class limited, just let us buy garage space 1 at a time.
Also, another way of going about it would be to have the 8 "all purpose" slots we have now, but let players buy extra specialized slots for the ship class they like using the most (with prices scaling accordingly) This would avoid a lot of mess.
[ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-23 07:57 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-23 09:04
Quote:
On 2013-05-23 07:49, PsyCrow wrote:
The problem with the planned system is that when you have subscription slots filled, and the subscription expires, you cannot launch any ships until you delete them down to the non-subscriber level. If you had enhancements on all of them, well, you gotta either sub again or wince and delete your ships.
If we could buy garage expansions ala carte, then there's no risk of the subscription ending locking you out of the game and forcing you into a really undesirable spot.
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I see your point there. Perhaps those subscription slots could be clearly demarcated so players will know what they'll lose access to once their subscription expires.
The problem with buying garage slots is paying a one time cost for permanent storage. Surely we do not expect to pay, say, 1000 credits, or the equivalent of $1 for that extra permanent storage place. On the other hand, paying 25000 creds ($25) may be unpalatable too. How do you put a value on permanent storage? With subscription, we can look at it as rent.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-23 10:28
Quote:
On 2013-05-23 07:49, PsyCrow wrote:
The problem with the planned system is that when you have subscription slots filled, and the subscription expires, you cannot launch any ships until you delete them down to the non-subscriber level. If you had enhancements on all of them, well, you gotta either sub again or wince and delete your ships.
If we could buy garage expansions ala carte, then there's no risk of the subscription ending locking you out of the game and forcing you into a really undesirable spot.
Fine, don't have it class limited, just let us buy garage space 1 at a time.
Also, another way of going about it would be to have the 8 "all purpose" slots we have now, but let players buy extra specialized slots for the ship class they like using the most (with prices scaling accordingly) This would avoid a lot of mess.
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If you plan on letting the subscription expire then just use the extra slots for temporary ships, or make sure you get your enh off before it expires. It WOULD be nice to be able to buy a few extra slots with credits for non subscribers, but there does need to be some benefit for subscribing beyond wearing pants in the lobby and being able to name your ships. But, on that note, there's nothing wrong with a compromise.
Quote:
On 2013-05-23 09:04, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I see your point there. Perhaps those subscription slots could be clearly demarcated so players will know what they'll lose access to once their subscription expires.
The problem with buying garage slots is paying a one time cost for permanent storage. Surely we do not expect to pay, say, 1000 credits, or the equivalent of $1 for that extra permanent storage place. On the other hand, paying 25000 creds ($25) may be unpalatable too. How do you put a value on permanent storage? With subscription, we can look at it as rent.
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Of course, another idea may be letting people buy a few extra slots with credits, like maybe up to 5, and any further slots only available as a subscription bonus. That way if someone wants to play all 3 factions equally or wants more options for permanent ships they can still have it somewhat, and they can also subscribe if they want a lot more options like if they want to play all 3 factions and not have to worry about constantly deleting ships every time. I'm chronically broke but even I wouldn't have a problem paying $10 per slot if it's permanent.
Think of it this way.....10 people buy 5 extra slots for $10 each, that's $50. A decent amount of cash but it's a 1 time deal and they don't need to spend anything else to keep them, but they do need to spend money on enhancements for any ships they populate them with. The average enh setup seems to be an engine trail and 7x adv, so that's $8.10 per person.
So in this hypothetical situation with just 10 people buying 5 garage spaces each and populating them with ships using a popular enh loadout there's an instant $131. Now with the current model those 10 people could just pay $5 per month for the lowest priced subscription for 12 slots, and it'd be a long time before DS would catch up to the point it'd be at if they had just bought slots outright.
Granted not everyone would immediately rush out to buy all 5 slots at once, but with the tier system on it's way I'm sure a lot of people certainly would if given the opportunity.
Edit: My bad. Somehow had an extra 0 in the prices, I need to stop thinking about stuff like this when I'm half asleep.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2013-05-24 03:31 ]
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2013-05-24 00:04
I certainly would. We are getting 60+ new ships per faction, I already know 12 won't be enough for me!
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