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Kluth Shrouds Invisable even with ECCM active |
Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
|  Posted: 2012-12-19 21:12
Whats the deal, its crazy!! Yes kluth can cloak, doesn't mean there missiles should be able to also!
(@Devs) ECCM isnt working as it should because i know most of you will say you need ECCm ships near to see them, WE DO! but still all are getting through, fix it please.
PS. ^from a ugto perspective.
[ This Message was edited by: *Two Face* on 2012-12-19 21:15 ]
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:21
A player on ugto (same faction as me) just asked what about if kluth have a player cloaked with ecm on near me, what type of eccm am i running and at what distance are they from me, well i can stump that one on the head right away, ive used a command dread with 3 standard eccm active and had only one kluth ship near me, a ganglia (kluth noob ship) and still most missiles got through my point defence, i can take no more then two hits to each arce before i am dead even with 3 eccm on.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:25
i thought the eccm/ecm range was only like 200 gu, so even if there was a luth ship near ya running ecm for the missles it would risk getting hit by FF . also doesn't the command dred have limited amount of PD on that ship, or have 1 or 2 beams per arc?
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PokeYourWaffle
Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 112
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:27
Very odd ... I can't quite remember but I do believe a CD should be able to see them pretty well. Perhaps some unknown or unnoticed factor was coming in to play in these instances? The CD only has 6 lasers so a few missiles will make it through either way, but they can be seen.
The statistics sheet shows more than one ECCM/ECM so going off of the first of both:
ECCM: "strength": "3.0 + (0.2 * LEVEL)",
"range": "1000.0 + (150.0 * LEVEL)"
ECM: "strength": "3.0 + (0.2 * LEVEL)",
"range": "500.0 + (50.0 * LEVEL)",
and Shroud Missiles just for fun:
Shroud Missiles: "projectileSig": "-2.5",
You guys can figure the numbers yourselves, can't be bothered to do it myself at the moment.
[ This Message was edited by: PokeYourWaffle[Helper] on 2012-12-19 21:34 ]
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BLADERUNNER2019
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan
Joined: December 18, 2010
Posts: 140
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:41
eccm or not on a ship, the missles should not be cloaked...are we supposed to all get in command dreads when ever a ganglia or stat is around....COME ON ! Be real.
Cheers,
Bladerunner
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:50
Quote:
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On 2012-12-19 21:41, Bladerunner2014 wrote:
eccm or not on a ship, the missles should not be cloaked...are we supposed to all get in command dreads when ever a ganglia or stat is around....COME ON ! Be real.
Cheers,
Bladerunner
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The missiles aren't cloaked, per se, but have a negative base signature, enough ECCM will make them visible. The range on ECCM is a lot higher than ECM, and the ECCM varients can help a lot here. The Ganglia is a missile ship mind you, so you may need to adjust your tactics when fighting one, especially noting it's stealth based payload.
But really, wth are the Luth doing with a missile ship anyways? Totally not their playstyle.
[ This Message was edited by: Walrus of Apathy on 2012-12-19 21:53 ]
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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
| Posted: 2012-12-19 21:51
Honestly I must say that this game is about strategy. So it makes sense that it requires eccm vs this. The problem though is that the missiles appear to...flicker in and out of visibility with eccm on. In a highly unpredictable manner.
I've had 4 shrouds come at me and suddenly eccm would only reveal 2 while the other 2 would hit past pd. Sometimes the missiles would only be like 200 gu away and would have turned visibile at 500 only to suddenly go dark and undetected again and then bam im hit. Theres something flaky about the missiles that needs to be fixed or the kluth should have to rely on ecm like we do to deliver missiles.
Especially with how deadly the missiles are. They instantly vaporize things like hts or dessies,and take huge chunks out of cruisers and bigger. With the amount of damage they do and how frequently they penetrate enemy pd they are highly unbalanced.
The ugto missiles don't even come close to this kind of damage and sadly have a massively lower frequency of hits on enemies.
Honestly I think either the missiles need to be fixed to working properly like they should or should have the signature raised.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-19 22:08
If you can't see the missiles visually (not EW), then you might have sync issues.
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-19 22:10
Then all ugto have sync issues lol
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-12-19 23:10
There's always going to be latency involved.
Missiles travel at something like 40 gu/s, meaning if you have a seconds worth of lag, it's going to travel 40 gu before it shows up on your client, then another second for PD to react, etc...
99% of the time its an issue with latency, which is not something we can fix.
A scanner will make them show up like christmas tree lights though.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-19 23:14
And to think that i proposed that missile speeds be doubled or tripled, along with fighters.. ..
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
| Posted: 2012-12-20 08:54
a command dread doesnt have enough beams to pd all the 8 missles from a ganglia. And to make it worse: if u picked the new long range lasers, they recharge so slow that u cannot pd the 2nd missle alpha.
A command dread is a group ship
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-20 09:57
Quote:
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On 2012-12-20 08:54, Ubawaus wrote:
a command dread doesnt have enough beams to pd all the 8 missles from a ganglia. And to make it worse: if u picked the new long range lasers, they recharge so slow that u cannot pd the 2nd missle alpha.
A command dread is a group ship
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PD isn't meant to completely defeat incoming missiles. It's meant to mitigate the situation. Reduce the damage. A ship flying alone may be able to shoot down the odd missile or two. But a dedicated missile ship should overwhelm a single ship's PD.
Ships flying close to each other should be able to defeat incoming missiles. This is a team game.
BTW, there may be changes to the way PD work in the future. You'll hear about them when the time comes.
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-20 10:57
Quote:
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On 2012-12-20 08:54, Ubawaus wrote:
a command dread doesnt have enough beams to pd all the 8 missles from a ganglia. And to make it worse: if u picked the new long range lasers, they recharge so slow that u cannot pd the 2nd missle alpha.
A command dread is a group ship
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I didnt say there was no ugto ships near me, I was in a group, 6 of us at this particular time, (Steveyk, Bladerunner, Rykros, Nekofan, Nightmarewon and me) a mix of command dreads and EAD's mostly, still couldnt see half the missiles. :/
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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
| Posted: 2012-12-20 12:40
Quote:
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On 2012-12-19 22:08, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
If you can't see the missiles visually (not EW), then you might have sync issues.
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It's not the visibility. We see the missiles red trail behind it coming at us.
The problem is that the missiles appear to be detected one second...then not detected the next...repetitively. I'm saying with the example of them going dark at 200 gu that they WERE DETECTED at first,at 500 gu range, but right before cl range they suddenly vanished(red trails still there but no red diamonds) with no apparent cause. Then proceeded to slam into my ships side without being able to pd them. At the time the enemy was 1600 or so gu away and I doubt they can fly their ship as fast as their missiles to keep them ecm'd. They didn't even jump in right after the missiles acted quirky which would indicate desync if they had.
I don't know why 'desync' would cause missiles to be detected at 500 gu then suddenly vanish outside cl range and hit us. This also seems to happen frequently. As in its a common occurance even with multiple ships with eccm running.
[ This Message was edited by: rykros1987 on 2012-12-20 12:41 ]
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