| Author |
i saw a thing in the dev log and i did not like it |
Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
|  Posted: 2012-08-19 10:03
Quote:
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Stations no longer contribute to capturing a planet.
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It'd probably end a lot of stat spam though, so I like this.
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You can no longer scrap a structure unless you are in orbit of that planet and in an Engineer class ship.
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However, this, I really dislike. Scrapping planets is a valid tactic, and a lot of people agree.
[ This Message was edited by: Mylith *CO* on 2012-08-19 11:59 ]
EDIT: Doran, u b evil.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-08-19 11:21
Quote:
| On 2012-08-19 10:03, Mylith *CO* wrote:
Quote:
| Stations no longer contribute to capturing a planet.
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It'd probably end a lot of stat spam though... |
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Planet capturing race is not the only case that people spam station.
Players still use stations to support the dreadS to capture the planet as long as they gain supply prestige via supplying aura and combat prestige via launching missles.
I bet who uses station will be forced to join a group.
Quote:
| On 2012-08-19 10:03, Mylith *CO* wrote:
Quote:
| You can no longer scrap a structure unless you are in orbit of that planet and in an Engineer class ship. |
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Scrapping planets is a valid tactic, and a lot of people agree. |
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People should not lose prestige in this dirty, meaningless and rude tactic.
You can only build a structure when you're orbiting the planet, in an engineer. How come could you scrap a structure when you're mobile and in non-engineer ships?
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-08-19 11:30 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-19 12:35
The first is was done mainly to stop the tactic of spamming the biggest thing you could to absorb as much damage and capture the planet. Stations are clased more as support ships, and as such, this change was aimed to emphasis that more. Stations will still see the capturing message and they will still get prestige for being around a planet that was captured, however, their ship will not aid in the capturing of that planet.
The engineer and orbit change was made because although we believe scorched earth policy is fine, it was far, far too easy to do from the safety of a few planets away or even the next system/server across. Doing this forces those who want to play and deploy the scorched earth policy to put themselves in harms way. Risk vs reward.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-08-19 12:36 ]
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-08-19 12:45
Quote:
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On 2012-08-19 12:35, Pantheon wrote:
The first is was done mainly to stop the tactic of spamming the biggest thing you could to absorb as much damage and capture the planet. Stations are clased more as support ships, and as such, this change was aimed to emphasis that more. Stations will still see the capturing message and they will still get prestige for being around a planet that was captured, however, their ship will not aid in the capturing of that planet.
The engineer and orbit change was made because although we believe scorched earth policy is fine, it was far, far too easy to do from the safety of a few planets away or even the next system/server across. Doing this forces those who want to play and deploy the scorched earth policy to put themselves in harms way. Risk vs reward.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-08-19 12:36 ]
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Uh..try piloting an engineer into a enemy fleet. Even with an escort, you basically can't do it(without Maverick enh).
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-08-19 12:46
risk = negitive press... Reward equal slowing the enemy so you can mount a counter attack.
New change makes it harder to slow the momentum of improching forces.
But im not saying its a bad thing....
Just kinda odd that every time i find something that works well it goes bye bye 
unless your ugto of course
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-19 14:32
You lose build pres for scrapping, that's already enough of a downside. Requiring someone to be in orbit with an Engineer in order to scrap anything makes it impossible on a planet that's being captured as you are pretty well guaranteed to be killed within a few seconds unless you scrap a planet at the first hint it's going to be a target before it's actually under attack. This is, obviously, counterproductive to defending a planet as long as possible before torching it.
The only good thing that could come of this is it will prevent accidentally scrapping something you're trying to use like a SY or Starport, unless you're in an Engineer, in which case you could just rebuild it right away.
Overall though, it's not necessary and I can't see it improving gameplay.
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Xavier I. Agamemnon
Grand Admiral
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 12, 2010
Posts: 357
From: Babylon5
| Posted: 2012-08-19 14:56
sweet now that makes me happy
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YIIMM
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 851
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
| Posted: 2012-08-19 16:17
I think having it have to be an engineer and in orbit is too restrictive; one or the other would likely be preferable.
Suggestion for an alternative: increase prestige lost from scrapping on a planet where an enemy is gaining control or make it impossible.
This would prevent use of scorched earth tactics on a planet that is about to be lost, doesn't punish people scrapping as part of building and still allows people to scrap structures remotely if they're causing a problem.
Of course it would still be possible to scrap structure en mass before the enemy gets there but the same is true if the current proposals went ahead.
Regarding station suggestion: thumbs up
[ This Message was edited by: YIIMM on 2012-08-19 16:19 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-19 16:40
What if we allow any ship in orbit to scrap and increase prestige lost a factor of how much control you've lost?
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-08-19 18:45
I see that the people complaining about this are ICC players who i also see as the main culprits for planet scrapping, I think having to use an engineer while being in orbit makes alot sence, hell we might even see alot more UGTO and Kluth planets with shields on them if this sticks. 
p.s, People will still mass scrap even if the prestige loss is increasd.
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Subtilizer
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 20, 2010
Posts: 122
| Posted: 2012-08-19 19:12
Quote:
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On 2012-08-19 18:45, Turtle Power wrote:
I see that the people complaining about this are ICC players who i also see as the main culprits for planet scrapping, I think having to use an engineer while being in orbit makes alot sence, hell we might even see alot more UGTO and Kluth planets with shields on them if this sticks.
p.s, People will still mass scrap even if the prestige loss is increasd.
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Turtle it's a valid tactic, it's used in real life (i mean the russians used it against the french and the nazis iirc) and regardless the planet will need to be fixed.
My main problem with this is the double restriction of both needing to be in orbit and being an engineer, while being able to scrap from another server is abit excessive, both needing to be in orbit AND in one of the most fragile ships in the game is just the devs being sideways about it.
Person A moans about scorched Earth tactics,
Person B defends the tactic.
In an attempt to appease A and not alarm B they just make it so scorched Earth is nigh impossible to do.(I mean take an engie into a firefight and that thing is dead.)
It just seems that Person A just doesn't want to rebuild the planet.
Can there be a compromise? one or the other?
I think being in orbit would be the better choice you don't really need the same tools to make something than you would to destroy it.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-19 19:57
Okay, so I've just made these changes:
Engineer ships can scrap as long as they are in the same system.
All other ships can only scrap if they are in orbit.
For every percent of control you lose, you lose an extra percent of prestige for scrapping.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-19 21:33
Why does pres loss need to be increased in addition to some other unneeded restriction? For players who actually know how to build it's even more of a PITA having to scrap and rebuild our own planets once they're retaken because we get them back with crappy builds that are in some cases actually WORSE than what you'd see from AI.
How about removing pres loss for scrapping structures on planets newly captured planets when the control is under 30%?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-08-19 22:12
Actually I would suggest that any ship equipped with build drones.
ie; Engineer, Command Dread, Command Station
be able to scrap a planet while in orbit only. Or perhaps in the same system?
Or is there a way to create some invisible aura for Build ships, say 5000 GUs, to determine its max scrap range?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-08-19 22:24 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-08-19 22:45
Nope, and there's no way to easily retreive if that ship has a build drone on it (and I really don't want to be checking for every ship every time they click on a structure - that's just wastful programming).
May revert the prestige cost, but I think this would be the best possible solution currently.
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