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[FAQ
Forum Index » » English (General) » » Small Ships-Survey
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 Author Small Ships-Survey
Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
Posted: 2012-07-21 10:13   
I made a survey about the smaller ship classes in DarkSpace. It should take less than a minute to do and you don't have to provide who you are if you don't want to(edit: because of some mean spammers, you now have to provide a valid username).

Thanks!


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dF9YbDhCS20yU1ZlZkpVZE1Jb2Q0UXc6MQ
[ This Message was edited by: Persistance on 2012-07-21 16:26 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
Posted: 2012-07-21 15:03   
I think the only thing that makes small ships underpowered is the K'Luth.

I mean, you can use an assault frigate against an UGTO dreadnought and win (force a withdraw) but again'st kl'uth, they just cloak, wait to charge their JD, and then point jump you.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
Posted: 2012-07-21 15:17   
@Moderators/Developers/whoever did this(I'm guessing either doran or frob or maybe eledore)

Please do not troll the survey. It skews the results.

[ This Message was edited by: Persistance on 2012-07-21 15:18 ]
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
Posted: 2012-07-21 16:08   
ok ill fll it in.

i think small ships fine. the spawn limit to spread big and small ship was an idea from a while ago, bit its shot down because once 2 players in a stat go afk...nobody else can spawn station, it will suck, ppl talk about automatic log out to prevent this, and therefor a lot of coding is needed.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
Posted: 2012-07-21 16:18   
As a result of spammers, a valid username is now required to take the survey. Any posts without a valid username will be deleted.

[ This Message was edited by: Persistance on 2012-07-21 16:23 ]
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
Posted: 2012-07-21 16:34   
I don't think you understand how spam bots work...

'Valid username' - just tested it, all you need is random text or numbers. That's not going to stop spam.

Also, the 'survey' is pitifully small and doesn't ask for any real useful information, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to get out of it.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: 2012-07-21 17:07   
Besides, we already have Plans to adjust balance between small ships and large. We don't particularly need a survey at this point.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2012-07-21 17:09   
Seems a bit slanted, too: If you think small ships are underpowered, you need to explain why. If you think they are not, you don't get the option of picking overpowered or just right, nor a need to explain about them.

Also, the option if you're a dev or not seems horrible insecure since anyone could put anything without problem, it looks like?
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2012-07-21 17:19 ]
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral

Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
Posted: 2012-07-21 17:53   
Why are all the dev's just bagging on Persistance at least he put effort into this instead of some people who just spam forums......I mean you(the devs) rarely tell in an understandable way what you are balancing and why and the players just try to put some stuff out there to see how players feel and dev's just bag on it like now! come on stop and be glad Persistance is trying to get everyone to get idea's together
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
Posted: 2012-07-21 18:19   
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 16:34, Pantheon wrote:
I don't think you understand how spam bots work...

'Valid username' - just tested it, all you need is random text or numbers. That's not going to stop spam.

Also, the 'survey' is pitifully small and doesn't ask for any real useful information, so I'm not sure what you're expecting to get out of it.


I use /who in GCQL to test usernames. Very useful command.

What would be 'real useful' questions?
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 17:09, Bardiche wrote:
Seems a bit slanted, too: If you think small ships are underpowered, you need to explain why. If you think they are not, you don't get the option of picking overpowered or just right, nor a need to explain about them.

Also, the option if you're a dev or not seems horrible insecure since anyone could put anything without problem, it looks like?
[ This Message was edited by: Persistance on 2012-07-21 18:21 ]


If you thought that small ships were OP, you could always use the comments section. In all my reading of the forums and listening to people in-game, I have yet to see someone complaining about the overpoweredness of small ships.

The dev/moderator question was for fun. I just wanted to see how many people would check the box.

Quote:

On 2012-07-21 17:07, Jim Starluck wrote:
Besides, we already have Plans to adjust balance between small ships and large. We don't particularly need a survey at this point.



So? Isn't anything that shows what the players' opinion, or at least gives some good ideas, worthwhile?

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Dakili
Fleet Admiral

Joined: June 07, 2007
Posts: 86
From: Quebec
Posted: 2012-07-21 18:42   
I don't think the smaller ships are underpowered or overpowered. They're small, so they have to do less damange, and their main force is their SPEED. If anything should be changed on the smaller ships, it would be, in my opinion, a weapon that would be "anti-dreadnough", a weapon that would deal a few more damage than the conventional one, but being slower (just a few more damage) and would use no ammunation but more power.

Why? Because that's the problem with smaller ships. Before they can do anything useful (most of the time) they run out of ammo. I don't want to make an OP weapon, just something that deals a few more damage, like 1-3% more at a slower pace and no ammo. It wouldn't make the weapon OP since smaller ships could still dodge them.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2012-07-21 19:19   
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 17:53, Fatal Infinity wrote:
I mean you(the devs) rarely tell in an understandable way what you are balancing and why and the players just try to put some stuff out there to see how players feel and dev's just bag on it like now!



If you're going to conduct a survey and use it to present data to the community or the developers, we'd be more helped with a survey that is as accurate and useful as possible. The current data is not comprehensive.

To explain: If a majority indicate that small ships are underpowered, then write comments on why, we are left with two bits of information:

1) A tally of how many people think small ships are underpowered VS those who do not think so

2) A wealth of comments we have to check, read, tally up and compare, contrast and consider

What we're trying to say is, expand on the survey and consider the questions more to acquire a more valuable output.

Rather than "Are small ships underpowered?", consider:

Statement: I think Frigates have adequate firepower to deal with other Frigates.
Strongly disagree -- Disagree -- Agree -- Strongly agree

Statement: I think a Dreadnought's alpha strike does adequate damage versus a Frigate.
Strongly disagree -- Disagree -- Agree -- Strongly agree

These two questions both deal with the strength of small ships (firepower and defences respectively), but are more indicative of where the problem is and give a tally of it, instead of requiring one to sift through the comments and hoping they managed to identify the cause for their opinion. You can expand these questions by Frigates VS Cruisers, for example, and Destroyers VS Frigates. Everything's possible.

The current survey provides us an idea of how long someone has been playing, what their rank is, and whether they think small ships are or are not underpowered. They are not indicative of where the problem is (if any), what players feel need to be changed about it, and if ships are neither underpowered nor overpowered but under-perform in a specific area.

I hope this makes it somewhat clearer what we meant by our commentary. While we appreciate any and all help, we do want to be able to make use of the community's helpfulness, instead of having to brush it aside as we cannot use the input.

I'm not that great at wording things, so this may come off offensive (in which case I apologise), but understand that our concerns are grounded in validity of the survey so the results will be useful, either by community or developers.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2012-07-21 19:19   
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 15:03, Fluttershy wrote:
I think the only thing that makes small ships underpowered is the K'Luth.

I mean, you can use an assault frigate against an UGTO dreadnought and win (force a withdraw) but again'st kl'uth, they just cloak, wait to charge their JD, and then point jump you.




After playing Kluth smaller ships extensively, the only conclusion I came to is that people simply aren't playing them how they should.

With proper timing and placement, I was capable of taking down cruisers fairly well with a Parasite, and the Scale was capable of almost going toe to toe with EADs.

The Claw is actually a mini-Scale in its own right, and if you have some support you can dish out excellent damage for its size.

Not to mention, all three I've listed above do pretty well for energy as well in extended engagements.

Theres nothing underpowered about them at all.




-Ent
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral

Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
Posted: 2012-07-21 19:26   
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 19:19, Bardiche wrote:
Quote:

On 2012-07-21 17:53, Fatal Infinity wrote:
I mean you(the devs) rarely tell in an understandable way what you are balancing and why and the players just try to put some stuff out there to see how players feel and dev's just bag on it like now!



If you're going to conduct a survey and use it to present data to the community or the developers, we'd be more helped with a survey that is as accurate and useful as possible. The current data is not comprehensive.

To explain: If a majority indicate that small ships are underpowered, then write comments on why, we are left with two bits of information:

1) A tally of how many people think small ships are underpowered VS those who do not think so

2) A wealth of comments we have to check, read, tally up and compare, contrast and consider

What we're trying to say is, expand on the survey and consider the questions more to acquire a more valuable output.

Rather than "Are small ships underpowered?", consider:

Statement: I think Frigates have adequate firepower to deal with other Frigates.
Strongly disagree -- Disagree -- Agree -- Strongly agree

Statement: I think a Dreadnought's alpha strike does adequate damage versus a Frigate.
Strongly disagree -- Disagree -- Agree -- Strongly agree

These two questions both deal with the strength of small ships (firepower and defences respectively), but are more indicative of where the problem is and give a tally of it, instead of requiring one to sift through the comments and hoping they managed to identify the cause for their opinion. You can expand these questions by Frigates VS Cruisers, for example, and Destroyers VS Frigates. Everything's possible.

The current survey provides us an idea of how long someone has been playing, what their rank is, and whether they think small ships are or are not underpowered. They are not indicative of where the problem is (if any), what players feel need to be changed about it, and if ships are neither underpowered nor overpowered but under-perform in a specific area.

I hope this makes it somewhat clearer what we meant by our commentary. While we appreciate any and all help, we do want to be able to make use of the community's helpfulness, instead of having to brush it aside as we cannot use the input.

I'm not that great at wording things, so this may come off offensive (in which case I apologise), but understand that our concerns are grounded in validity of the survey so the results will be useful, either by community or developers.

Bard...... yes all of it could be laid out better and not to be rude but someone could copy every instruction you JUST SAID and one of the devs would come up with another crappy reason of why we the players who play more than dev's it seems have no clue what were talking about so plz bard. take this little effort of persistance trying to bring whats left of the Darkspace community together and ask about a topic that makes new people Leave the game before enjoying it to the fullest
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2012-07-21 20:53   
My problems with small ships are garrage slots and planet's resource.

I do want to have cruisers/destroyers in garrage but I would be regret to remove beautiful & powerful & helpful dreads and stations with enhs.

During 1.5xx, I usuall use all kinds of ships because it's free to launch them. Now it cost resource and often does the planet lack resource so I limit myself from launching new des/cruiser because if somebody need to launch prescious dread/station from a new sy, they might be not able to do so.

It's nice if dev remove the 10% tax when ship launch from a SY that it didn't dock.
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