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read, mostly for kluth |
Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
|  Posted: 2011-02-26 03:52
Actually if ICC wants to be pushed back to Cass again. By all means keep moving in on K'luth territory to prove you're not "submissive", allow UGTO to take back what space K'luth has been gaining on them and have both the stronger factions come down on ICC. Yes. ICC is the weakest faction at the moment.
If ICC players such as Saur thinks the K'luth is going to fight the UGTO on their own for them while they take K'luth planets behind their backs. You're just going to get yourself sandwiched by the two factions again.
Your excuse for lack of fore sight and tactics being "I'm just playing a game lawl" is pretty poor. Just don't complain when you're back at Fargo Rock or even Cass, then barely log on for the next 6 months or so.
With the ICC staying out of K'luth's way, the K'luth has done pretty well against the UGTO in R33 and Cinc.
What has the ICC done in all this time during this little cease fire? 3 planets in Luyten, then retreat back to Tau Ceti?
Your faction's strength is measured by its actions.
I would rather be fighting some where other than Tau Ceti and have UGTO be the one with only one system or less for once. Maybe then we can have a more diverse and interesting 3 way faction war going on.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-02-26 04:28
LOL guys. While it would be nice to put the shroom spamming uggies on their toes once in awhile, let's remember that this is just a game. So....
Y SO SRS???
But anyway, my answer to the question below would be:
Writing fanfics about 60 dreads and 30 stations, along with a captured n defected Kluth ship raiding and capping Sol?  
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On 2011-02-26 03:52, Nightmare Reaper wrote:
What has the ICC done in all this time during this little cease fire? 3 planets in Luyten, then retreat back to Tau Ceti?
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2011-02-26 06:29
Quote:
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On 2011-02-26 03:52, Nightmare Reaper wrote:
irrelivant text - MV all different now, tho it will reset within a day or 2.
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turn a page and move on (and of course write a note in ur diary to recall this moment in 6 months time).
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-02-26 06:35
Quote:
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On 2011-02-26 06:29, Sauur wrote:
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On 2011-02-26 03:52, Nightmare Reaper wrote:
irrelivant text - MV all different now, tho it will reset within a day or 2.
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Trying hard to look cool despite being terrible and counter productive to his faction in game.
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Aren't you special.
[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare Reaper on 2011-02-26 06:37 ]
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-02-26 08:21
it saddens me to see all the hard work we've put into this ceasefire thing, and how many attacks we had to ignore to keep the peace alive. and then i find this? i was hard to keep people organized and i know its hard to keep whole faction organized. we really should need something like faction board or something that would contain any importants notes. we should have a leader too. vote system. new leader every month or something.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-02-26 10:07
One simple answer.
ICC is much easier to kill than UGTO. ICC has much less numbers than UGTO. Its not about revenge. Its not about geography, ICC is just by all measures easier to farm than UGTO.
UGTO has numbers, they have decent firepower vs. Kluth. They are a pain to fight. They have to deal with actual resistence, they have to deal with Depot planets, they have to deal with issue after issue with UGTO.
ICC is simple. ICC is easy. ICC has the least resistence. People choose the path of least resistence.
UGTO doesn't attack Kluth because Kluth are a pain to fight because of cloak. UGTO has a short attention span. UGTO also want something easy to fight.
Kluth and UGTO don't fight each other except when they are both trying to fight ICC and essentially become two packs of lions fighting over a gazelle.
Its that simple. The main players of those factions will never admit openly that they prefer to fight the easiest faction tocrush, but its the straight and true fact. You can put the ICC's main territory on the other side of the map. You could put the UGTO between Kluth and ICC, and Kluth would go pass UGTO to attack ICC. I gurantee it. Why? The same reason any player in any MMO fights one particular enemy - most reward for the least risk.
ICC is a no risk fight for either faction. They don't have the numbers, or they don't have the firepower, or they don't have both. Its a turkey shoot. You want people to have actual balanced factions? Start with making each factions actually worth a damn. Any argument to the contrary is trying to deny the obvious of how much stronger Kluth and UGTO are comparitively to ICC. Even vets will tell you that the ICC is the weakest faction that is the hardest to play by a large, substantial margin. This is the factor. This is the problem. ICC suck.
They suck as ships, they suck as gameplay, they are too hard to use for newer players and suck even when you learn how to use them. They have range they can't use, energy efficent weapons that aren't worth the damage they put out and shields that drain more energy than they put out defense. The only ICC ship worth a damn in a fight is the Assault Dreadnaught, and you need to be worth a damn to even use that properly. And when you have alternatives like that Battle Station or the Krill, why would you? You wouldn't.
ICC is a pathetic, worthless faction gameplay and mechanics wise. Nobody plays it because every single person knows it. They just don't want the actual factions worth a damn nerfed or god forbid, ICC actually buffed so that they aren't easy kills anymore. Its cynical, but its the truth. I would think the last six months fighting over the same damn space in the same predictable way would be some indicator but no.
Its time to put aside excuses and accept that ICC's ships and mechanics suck. Thats why. Nothing else. Any other reason is a pathetic attempt to perserve the 'balance' of power. Which there is none.
Those are facts. Maybe when people want a real challenge in the game they will stop trying to advocate one faction into mediocrity for the sake of their own prestige gain.
-Ent
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-02-26 10:30
Quote:
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On 2011-02-26 10:07, Enterprise wrote:
You can put the ICC's main territory on the other side of the map. You could put the UGTO between Kluth and ICC, and Kluth would go pass UGTO to attack ICC. I gurantee it. Why? The same reason any player in any MMO fights one particular enemy - most reward for the least risk.
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Not really.
In the old 1.5 map, I found myself fighting Uggies almost all the time. Especially in R33 and Luyt. Rarely did I see Tau unless Luyt belonged to K'luth. And even then, we'd be defending it from R33.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-02-26 10:51
Quote:
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On 2011-02-26 10:30, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-02-26 10:07, Enterprise wrote:
You can put the ICC's main territory on the other side of the map. You could put the UGTO between Kluth and ICC, and Kluth would go pass UGTO to attack ICC. I gurantee it. Why? The same reason any player in any MMO fights one particular enemy - most reward for the least risk.
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Not really.
In the old 1.5 map, I found myself fighting Uggies almost all the time. Especially in R33 and Luyt. Rarely did I see Tau unless Luyt belonged to K'luth. And even then, we'd be defending it from R33.
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I'll call that bluff.
Reinstate the old map.
Watch UGTO and Kluth capture systems until it converges on ICC.
I'd bet everything on it.
-Ent
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-02-26 11:47
not...sure...where... your comming from ent..
icc asFrig > UGTO intFrig
icc Cdessy > UGTO Gdessy
icc HC > UGTO BC
icc CD < UGTO BD (raw base ship values.. run up on my CD witha BD and see what happens...)
icc AD > UGTO EAD
icc SS < UGTO SS
icc LS < UGTO BS
most luth ships are better than icc counterparts.. if you ask devs, luth ships are actualy rated one hull class above what they are.
kluth frigg = human dessy
icc < K'luth
we used to be good vs luth but two things happen.
1. ECCM range reduction
2. Scanner no longer swappable. (now some of our ships have two scaners)
We still have some of the best EW options in the game... but with range reduction of ECCM, K'luth get to totaly ignore our factional advantage.
(i remember when sheilds were 25% resistant to energy wep and devs said that was too much cause it totaly ignored one factions advantage... HA)
then we got our PSMs nurfed to hell.. and presto, icc no longer wants to cap.. wonder why?
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*KoZ* on 2011-02-26 11:50 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-02-26 12:29
From above posts, I guess players are implicitly refering the problem of unbalance in MV starts from admin, because they designed the map.
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Thernhoghas
Grand Admiral
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: September 18, 2010
Posts: 243
From: somewhere in Germany
| Posted: 2011-02-26 13:17
Quote:
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On 2011-02-26 12:29, chlorophyll wrote:
From above posts, I guess players are implicitly refering the problem of unbalance in MV starts from admin, because they designed the map.
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Some people say that. Others say it's because ICC are easier prey for Kluth.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-02-26 14:14
EAD > AD ..EAD eats AD trust me, maybe you just made a mistake.
But trying to get back to topic:
Mushroom-spams forces ICC to switch to MDs, experienced players know: 4 good MDs will crush the shrooms, ADs will fail here, missiles needed..
Then Kluth come in, they love popping MDs, now its time to switch to ADs, 4 ADs in formation beats Kluth.
But this rarely happens because of: NO LEADERSHIP, NO NUMBERS and NOT ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE (noobs).
ICC HAS ALL THE TOOLS TO DEAL WITH ANY THREAT ACTUALY.
So stop saying the whole ICC faction is crap. That makes yourself a Noob, i tried to explain it to you before.
The powerfull Shroom-Nutshells and the numbers will always give UGTO the dominance in territory.
They rush in, swallow loads of damage and just park at the enemys planet.
I am kind of sick of all those players complaining about ICC and there missiles for example, we have no choice!
Start playing the faction you hate and learn before you flame..
People are talking BS because they just dont understand, some even after years.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-02-26 14:42
...when i was in fs i was prohibited from making such outlandish posts
I do agree ICC has everything we need to deal with any threat...
we only need the pilots to do so. All our ships are very very very situational. Either you learn that fast.. or you suck as ICC pilot.
Fine. I pledge my alligence to the k'luth offencive.
I shall lead taskforces to invade cin. (whenever it is i may get on)
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-02-26 15:08
An EAD can shift most of its armor to the front arc to continue to fire from its strongest point.
ICC also has the best ranged, and close combat ship. Like someone in an FPS with a sniper and a shotgun. Good combo if used properly, bad if you don't.
The main thing is, I can tell you what role ICC has. I can tell you its special abilities. I can tell you how it can counter things. I can tell you its tiny traits that makes it better than other faction ships. I can tell you its intricate tools.
Now tell me what UGTO has. No special ability, no special traits. Just pure armor, and cannons with manipulated range to become close combat.
Tell me the purpose of UGTO. Tell me the unique tools UGTO can accomplish this role. Tell me if stations being stronger than others justifies every other UGTO class being weaker.
Kluth are similarly focused on end game ships. They have great dreads. They punish soloing and other newbish mistakes. They are closed range. They have cloak.
But the sad part is every non-dread kluth ships can't take a ship one class higher. Kluth small ships can only solo when fighting their own class. Tell me when you see a parasite drop a battle or combat dread. Tell me when a drainer has a function worth using. Tell me when a claw doesn't get its armor peeled off by one alpha from a dread. Tell me when you can survive for 15 seconds uncloaked next to an enemy dread.
Also, many people scream about how ICC is such a harder faction because of shields. Well, with an HC you can jump 1k gu away from the nearest dread and start hammering away with no fall off cannons, occasionally dodgin a few cores. Use shields on the arc getting peppered by other fall off weapons.
A parasite has to be careful. It has to be the near last to decloak in a kluth ambush and the first to cloak. The ambushed ships will sometimes just smack an alpha or two in you to make you go away, as they know they can't out dps kluth dreads. You have to be in an 200gu *sweetspot* to fire your missles and heavy beams at the same time.
A battle cruiser has to come in close if it ever dreams of doing damage. 800 gu out and falloff makes you shoot peas. ICC ships have the fastest projectiles, and UGTO with armor is heavier to turn. This makes ICC cannons a soft counter to UGTO small ships, as only when half your armor is gone are you as nimble as an ICC ship, and even then it is harder to dodge rails and ICs than pcannons and QSTs. Also, the beauty of the HC was to destroy one arc, and get to the hull. The BC has to destroy all shields to even think about getting to the hull.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-02-26 15:33
SpaceAdmiral, I already said it, but I will once again. When it comes to combat between sub-dread ships, cruisers need to be at 400 gu (max) from each other in order to be able to score a hit. This range shortens as the hull size keeps going down. A railgun shot travels at the speed of ~160 gu/s, it gives you plenty of time to evade it over 400 gu. The BC is not much slower in turning than a HC. So range has no meaning if you face a pilot who actually knows how to evade. But I completly agree ICC light ships are superior to their Kluth/UGTO counterparts when it comes to fight against dreads and stations.
The problem I see here is the progress as ICC pilot is somewhat linear with slight jumps in power when you reach the CD, HC and AD. UGTO have it a bit harder at the start, but gain a lot when they reach dreads and get a godmode when they reach stations. Life of a Kluth pilot is a misery until he reaches dreads which is a huge jump in playstyle.
Once again, don't underestimate UGTO sub-dread ships when they get to fight ships of their own size.
ICC is a reversed faction from my point of view - it needs to use small ships to counter big ones and big ships to counter smaller ones because of ICs and lasers.
Went OT again.
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-02-26 15:44 ]
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UGTO in a nutshell
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