| Author |
New server layout (MV) |
Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
|  Posted: 2010-08-17 11:56
I spent a while off DS and just came back to this update. After eventually downloading the file/installing the update I was able to join the server.
At first I thought that the servers were indeed all down bar one until I realised post-joining what had happened.
I enjoy the idea that you can join one simple server and choose a spot to spawn in regardless of what server you are in, it is a great step towards a large gaming environment.
The problem I have is not that the server is now one or that you can see every single system from the spawn point but that you cannot see whats going on besides planetary warnings of "under blockades" and "ship spotted" kind of things.
What I mean is that when I joined Sag server and saw a fight I could see it on the spawn screen, some gathering of red and green ships in a cluster. Obviously the data could be out and that by the time I spawn there could be nothing there but the fact was I knew where to spawn to help out my fleet and join the fight. This is not the case with the new MV.
You cannot seem to see anything but the odd AI when you zoom in or zoom out and even swap server clusters (sections of the MV). When you finally choose a spot that suits you then you may spawn there (resources and rank permitting) and move on. The problem comes with that you just spawned, on lets say Okag, and now you have to check through F2 if you 'hit the target'.
You are spawning more or less blind to what forces you have in that area and what kind of combat is available.
You should have some sort of screen that shows where your fleet members are (not necessarily AI, but players) so that when you do find the right server you don't accidentally spawn on the complete arse end of nowhere compared to your fleet.
You should be able to see whats going on before choosing a spawn place in any cluster of the MV so that you do not end up wasting time and resources of planets in a useless attempt of "battleships".
"Err..Er.. Cincin?!" *MISS - redock* "hmm, how about tau?" *MISS - try again!!*
My idea of a fun game isn't picking where to damned spawn but how to either help out or find somthing to do. You aren't doing anyone ANY favours by making them spawn blind in a random cluster.
I have only ever seen 1 friendly/hostile ship from the spawn screen in a kind of belayed server show up and at that by the time I spawned in that area it was actually just a server ghost and he wasn't in that system at all.
Please tell me this isn't just me? I cannot see how it is.
[ This Message was edited by: Okkam's Razor on 2010-08-17 11:58 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-17 13:36
Previously you definitely didn't know what was going on in other servers, and it was made clear by their separation. Whereas now the layout gives the impression that you do know, when in fact it's probably missing. I imagine it will cause a lot of ongoing confusion for new and old players alike.
I'm interested to find out why the devs still have not improved server->client communication. Whenever people complain about lag these days, it's usually just that the client only receives some things infrequently, or on demand (like when loading a planet in F3). Is it just about the effect on server load and bandwidth? For planets I can understand, though I think a little intelligent pre-fetching would go far. For the tactical map, I think it's about time we got realtime updates.
I know that's a tangent to the issue of integrating the different servers nicely into one map, it's just something that's been an ongoing pain. At the least, with information that has a short life (like ships on the tactical map) some effort must be made to ensure that people are aware it may be incomplete.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-08-17 13:39 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-08-17 15:35
We tried showing all data, but players connections couldn't handle it. There's already some players jumping about an insane amount due to the amount of data we have to ferry back and forth. increasing it is not an option and unfortunately, this is the side affect.
We do, however, show you delayed information on planets being attacked.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-08-17 15:52
How about show for each server the amount of players your side has? In a simple text box or something? If one server has the most, thats probably where the action is atleast. This would still not prevent sneeky invasions tough.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-17 15:55
I figured there were good reasons behind it, just wondered what they were  . It's easy to sit on the side and say it should be better. It's another to do it.
Now get back in the kitchen and make my dinner, woman! If you so much as think of undercooking the lobster again, I'll go all caps on your ass.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-08-17 16:07
Basically, we don't send down all the information on the other sever because it caused a very bad pause to send the entire state of the server.
So to avoid a pause we don't transmit the full state of the server just because your clicking on a single object. In fact, in beta we now hide all the ship icons at the ship selection screen... so perhaps it won't be as noticeable.
Obviously, even in a game like WOW, you don't see all players from the entire world... they only send objects that are in your local area and updates for players in your current group. We are doing a lot more than WOW, but we can't go wild and send down everything to the client the lag would just get worse.
There are reasons why the game is implemented the way it is...
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2010-08-17 16:12 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-08-17 22:18
The key there is that it's noticable to the player, because the player expects different behaviour. Taking away the ship icons might help there. Perhaps adding some lightweight realtime info on system status in the tactical map and ship selection would help.
So, whenever a particular system is clicked in the tactical map (or perhaps always available, integrated into the map), a small amount of info is displayed about it - how many planets owned by each faction, number of visible enemy ships, number of friendly (not including AI), any planet notices (like blockade/plague). It wouldn't have to be much, but would be a sufficient replacement for live ship updates and a really handy place for sticky broadcasts.
Would greatly simplify decision making for the player - could quickly scan systems and find where the friendlies and enemies are. Perhaps even add some global information. Things like systems with enemies detected, blockade or capture broadcasts quickly available on the tactical map would be fantastic.
Less time spent clicking around in confusion not knowing what's going on where
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-08-17 23:58
i jsut did the update and stuff for the whole one server thing witch i like and brings us more back to the old ds but why they put the newbie server in wit the rest was just confusing. nad having hard tie jumping back into the huge server but nice work.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-08-18 02:25
Quote:
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On 2010-08-17 16:07, Faustus wrote:
Basically, we don't send down all the information on the other sever because it caused a very bad pause to send the entire state of the server.
So to avoid a pause we don't transmit the full state of the server just because your clicking on a single object. In fact, in beta we now hide all the ship icons at the ship selection screen... so perhaps it won't be as noticeable.
Obviously, even in a game like WOW, you don't see all players from the entire world... they only send objects that are in your local area and updates for players in your current group. We are doing a lot more than WOW, but we can't go wild and send down everything to the client the lag would just get worse.
There are reasons why the game is implemented the way it is...
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2010-08-17 16:12 ]
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Unfortunately from a gameplay standpoint, this causes issues.
Not being able to tell where enemies are at or attacking from the ship selection screen makesi t so that you're basically spawning ships blindly. It's not as big of an issue when you're already in the game, but the first time you log in sucks.
If there were an way to tell that there are conflicts in a server without a massive bandwith death from it, it would be extrremely helpful to the playerbase. Something as simple as a tooltip that shows "x amount of enemy ships detected in this system in the last five minutes" would be tremendous help.
-Ent
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-08-18 02:33
thats why i aways try to spawn a scout to check the status
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-08-18 12:49
Quote:
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Unfortunately from a gameplay standpoint, this causes issues.
Not being able to tell where enemies are at or attacking from the ship selection screen makesi t so that you're basically spawning ships blindly. It's not as big of an issue when you're already in the game, but the first time you log in sucks.
If there were an way to tell that there are conflicts in a server without a massive bandwith death from it, it would be extrremely helpful to the playerbase. Something as simple as a tooltip that shows "x amount of enemy ships detected in this system in the last five minutes" would be tremendous help.
-Ent
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There is ... the "Enemy Detected" indicators around planets are displayed for all servers. Just look for the red-blinking circles... I thought this was obvious enough to everyone.
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DubStep Santa
Marshal
Joined: July 23, 2004
Posts: 81
From: Atlanta GA
| Posted: 2010-08-18 13:02
what about people with a internet connection that can handle all the information? could allow us to pick the information we want from the servers /shrug
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2010-08-18 13:54
Quote:
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On 2010-08-18 12:49, Faustus wrote:
Quote:
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Unfortunately from a gameplay standpoint, this causes issues.
Not being able to tell where enemies are at or attacking from the ship selection screen makesi t so that you're basically spawning ships blindly. It's not as big of an issue when you're already in the game, but the first time you log in sucks.
If there were an way to tell that there are conflicts in a server without a massive bandwith death from it, it would be extrremely helpful to the playerbase. Something as simple as a tooltip that shows "x amount of enemy ships detected in this system in the last five minutes" would be tremendous help.
-Ent
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There is ... the "Enemy Detected" indicators around planets are displayed for all servers. Just look for the red-blinking circles... I thought this was obvious enough to everyone.
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Problem is that "Enemy Detected" tends to be a AI scout that no one really cares that much about.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-08-18 14:46
Quote:
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Problem is that "Enemy Detected" tends to be a AI scout that no one really cares that much about.
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You will very soon... (insert evil laugh here)
[ This Message was edited by: Faustus on 2010-08-18 14:46 ]
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Vice Admiral Josh Knight
Vice Admiral
Joined: July 25, 2010
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2010-08-18 17:00
Oh dear....
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