| Author |
Capturing planets alive! |
Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
|  Posted: 2010-06-09 10:35
Capturing planets alive.
By this I mean taking a planet from an ICC player as a K'luth invasion and having shield defence bases on a K'luth planet.
What is the point in having race specific planet structures if you can just aquire them and use them. If the UGTO had the technology and understanding to use shields then they would make them themselves so it makes little sense to let an UGTO planet (or K'luth) for that matter use race sensitive structures.
In the way that the MV works at the moment it wouldn't make any sort of difference if you applied a race only requirement. If a planet full of ICC defence bases and shield generators was captured by UGTO/K'luth than those race specific structures should be shut down/removed (without pres loss) because they aren't a part of that race.
I know some people like this that they can capture planets such as they are and change some of it while keeping the vastly superior ICC defence bases and some UGTO offence bases mixed with ICC shield generators but be sensible here, this isn't how the game was designed to work in OR out of the MV.
If you were to add this idea to my other discussion of changing resource management again then you find that building and maintaining a system is back in business.
Alot of people might say "Well the MV is about combat" and at the moment I agree, but it was not created as a GIANT sandbox where people can just spawn ships off any planet they damn well want and shoot. There were threads of people saying about how building is non-existent and that supply and support is fairly useless these days. Well it can be put back to a thing that is needed. It would make securing a system harder and make gameplay more interesting.
Instead of waltzing in and taking the planet then moving on you would have to restructure the planet so that it suits your race and is still functional. You then add maybe new resource management and you suddenly have to stabilise the system before moving on.
This would prevent the overnight take over that some people have witnessed and also make taking planets more tactical rather than "lets take Paul because... its Paul!!"
thoughts?
===========================
Check out the "Old School Resources" thread, they are linked in an attempt to enhance gameplay for all.
[ This Message was edited by: SilentHunter13 on 2010-06-09 10:37 ]
_________________
When the universe collapses and dies there will be 3 survivors; Tyr Anasazi, the cockroaches and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cockroaches...
|
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-06-09 11:14
if id get my hand on peice of technology not my own, but powerful, il dam use it, and i will many times
but this situation can go both ways, like other races don't have knowledge of how to use the peice of technologie , or don't use the same system thus incompatible
there can be many reasons, but will it be really worth it? i mean, Sheild generator is hardly used for the purpose, Neutron bombs go trought it, and might aswull just tranny rush it instead
Also to add, Planet system is being reworked, my guess nothign will be done to planets structures until that rework is in, Be Patient, and we shall see what happens then
_________________
19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
|
Katejina
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: February 13, 2010
Posts: 73
From: katejina
| Posted: 2010-06-09 11:51
Thats how it used to be when you could Mirv a planet clean. It seems like the new bombing system is just causing a lot of problems.
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-06-09 13:53
Needing maybe 1.5x the tech it takes to build a structure to be able to use a building from another faction could be a good idea, it'd be possible to get something functioning even if you don't completely understand how the insides work as long as you can figure out the basics like how it's powered.
That or have structures from other factions slowly degrade on their own and cost 2x resources to repair to simulate not understanding the tech and having regular maintenance be much harder. That way they'll be a slow resource drain on planets so you'd have to weigh the benefit of having a structure with the penalty of needing to build mines to keep your resources from going down on their own.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-06-09 16:22
I had an idea once for faction-specific buildings or building bonuses for each faction that would be disabled if planet was controlled by a different faction. It was the current shields for ICC, bunker barracks with increased hit points for UGTO, and a Kluth building that makes it and the other Kluth buildings harder for enemies to detect so you'd have to be closer to the planet or use a scanner, sort of like an ECM base but for the planet itself.
If another faction captured a planet with these buildings, they'd be disabled and could never be used.
_________________
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-09 16:36
If the only way to capture a planet from other faction is to clear all the strucs with mirv, then your problem is fixed, right?
For planet that has shield, kill all the infs then raze it.
Perhaps someone will build a planet with shield and 10 barracks to make capture planet impossible without teamwork. Hence I suggest to remove Shield forever from DS.
_________________
|
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-09 17:21
ICC shields should block all incoming attacks on the planet, and I mean ALL! Enemy Inf Pods, Neaut and Bio bombs as well. Those are the 2 things shields some how don't know how to block. Its a SHIELD it stops everything, in return for this the power requirement should be really stiff. Like 100power and 40 tech just to keep it running, this makes a lot of buildings on the planet for only just 1 building. This will make the planet def number vary low as you won't be able to put up as many defenses as you normally could. So it would be a trade off, a planet that could stand its ground without a shield, or a weaker planet with a shield that stops everything. Also when the shield drops it stays down for like 5 min, giving the enemy time to drop inf on it or bomb the buildings. The enemy would now be forced to deal with the planet and its defenses rather then just blatantly skipping them all together by tranny/station rushing the planet. ICC is a faction that should have the best defenses around (not just PD bases but DEF and OFF bases as well since there part of that).
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-06-10 11:17
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-09 17:21, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
ICC shields should block all incoming attacks on the planet, and I mean ALL! Enemy Inf Pods, Neaut and Bio bombs as well. Those are the 2 things shields some how don't know how to block. Its a SHIELD it stops everything, in return for this the power requirement should be really stiff. Like 100power and 40 tech just to keep it running, this makes a lot of buildings on the planet for only just 1 building. This will make the planet def number vary low as you won't be able to put up as many defenses as you normally could. So it would be a trade off, a planet that could stand its ground without a shield, or a weaker planet with a shield that stops everything. Also when the shield drops it stays down for like 5 min, giving the enemy time to drop inf on it or bomb the buildings. The enemy would now be forced to deal with the planet and its defenses rather then just blatantly skipping them all together by tranny/station rushing the planet. ICC is a faction that should have the best defenses around (not just PD bases but DEF and OFF bases as well since there part of that).
|
|
You're going to make ICC planet impossible to capture, Star.
I agree that people should start bombing, instead of rushing. But, bomb requires teamwork (with the well-built planet), while rushing is individual job, so make it harder and you'll see people only rush. On the other hand, DS's MMO, so we can't force our faction members to help...
It depends on the builder to have two choice when modifying a planet. A/ focus the planet should contribute to attack the enemy, the strucs organization will be full with off II and def II, 1 sensor and 1 barrack. B/ keeping the planet, the strus organization will be bomb II, more than 3 sensors and many barracks.
I prefer the option A/. The planet really help the players, and it encourages people to bomb in team. Option B always limit the tactic to raze (Azreal would approve).
Btw, ICC def II and off II are the best. ICC off II is as strong as bunker II at close range.
_________________
|
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-06-10 13:09
Making it difficult, not impossible. Increase normal bomb damage on shields to compensate for the ability to completely block everything.
Also as to your building, NEVER use all type II buildings, you are asking for the planet to go down in just 1 hit. Always use a mix of type I and type II defenses, this gives makes the planet def live longer to continue to shoot the enemy until the planet gets capped. I have seen far too many planets with all DEF II and min tech to run, and poor placement of the def on the opposite side of the planet from the buildings. That build can not be made by the AI (who don't scrap and can't make perfectly spaced defenses either, if at all).
Tranny rushing is the one and only exploit that can't be stopped unless its a specifically made for planet.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2010-06-10 18:37
While I like where this is going, please stay on topic.
This is not about nerfing shields or changing shields or ICC defences it's asking a question on what is the point in race specific structures when I doubt you will find more than a handful of planets that are actually 100% ugto or kluth or icc that aren't in the home systems.
Kluth defence bases and ICC shields crossed with UGTO defence bases should never be allowed to happen. You should not be able to have a UGTO planet with 150% shields and ICC pd .... It completely defies the difference between the races.
It's exactly like saying "if you capture a ship then you can use that ship minus a few mods". So you can have a UGTO AD flying a mandible...
_________________
When the universe collapses and dies there will be 3 survivors; Tyr Anasazi, the cockroaches and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cockroaches...
|
doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2010-06-10 21:01
Nothing wrong with being able to cap enemy planets. In the end all factions get other factions buildings nothings wrong with it because none of the planet def are really that broken compared to others. Sure ICC + Luth def may be harder to beat by bombing, but its still not invincible. It also encourages players to utilize a diverse planet layout.
_________________
Please resize your Admin - signature
VCA since June 5th 06
|
-=LoKi=-
Marshal
Imperium
Joined: November 10, 2007
Posts: 83
From: Valhala
| Posted: 2010-06-11 03:32
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-10 18:37, SilentHunter13 wrote:
While I like where this is going, please stay on topic.
This is not about nerfing shields or changing shields or ICC defences it's asking a question on what is the point in race specific structures when I doubt you will find more than a handful of planets that are actually 100% ugto or kluth or icc that aren't in the home systems.
Kluth defence bases and ICC shields crossed with UGTO defence bases should never be allowed to happen. You should not be able to have a UGTO planet with 150% shields and ICC pd .... It completely defies the difference between the races.
It's exactly like saying "if you capture a ship then you can use that ship minus a few mods". So you can have a UGTO AD flying a mandible...
|
|
Who are u to say what can be allwoed and what can`t be allowed?? ICC UGTO are HUAM RACE......
Whats the point of removing some freaking race specific buildings? SO every planet can look the same and have the same things.?
[ This Message was edited by: Klorel (Arcus Prime) on 2010-06-11 03:33 ]
_________________
|
Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2010-06-11 06:03
Klorel, don't take it as me condemning the human race in the game, take it as a error in the current game mechanics.
You may like shields, you may like having ICC, UGTO and K'luth structures on a planet but it really does defeat the point of having race specific structures that only one race can build but every race can use.
It might be tied into the current way planets work and how it needs to be changed in the next patch, bombing coming back for instance would change this but it is still somthing I see as not intended for the game design but rather a byproduct of a broken system towards planet control.
On the other side of things Klorel, the way planets work these days it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference what structures are on the planet, it is going to get captured by a force of transports and thats that.
Just saying it seemed rather pointless having race specific structures that all races can use freely and without negatives. If they all knew how to use that kind of technology then they would use it surely?
You might want to consider damage done to non-race structures, like if the planet was UGTO and a shield generator was damaged, could not be repaired because the owning race doesn't understand the technology?
_________________
When the universe collapses and dies there will be 3 survivors; Tyr Anasazi, the cockroaches and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cockroaches...
|
SPaRTaN Z
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 26, 2009
Posts: 235
| Posted: 2010-06-11 07:04
1- Is there an actual difference between say a ICC bunker base I, and an UGTO Pd base I,. stats wise?
--> Perhaps making alternate faction buildings cost more to maintain/run (more pop/tech/power),. which would inevitably send the planet into a downward spiral straight after capture if it wasn't quickly corrected with your factions buildings..
solutions to this would be to :-
Increase tech/pop/power to let the other faction buildings work on ur planet,. or,.
change the planets def to your factions def.
IMO shields on planets are a little too effective,. currently it takes an unbelievable amount of MIRV's to kill a shield Gen,...
Thats IF you can get ur bombs to hit, cuz it seems to me if you do not have more ECM than whatever ECCM is being produced in the area,. it works very very very poorly,. if at all.
Tranny/Station rush is all the rage cuz its quick and effective atm,.
Then you have ICC MD's ripping apart everything, but 2 UGTO MC's and an anti sensor scout with full ecm near the planet couldn't even touch it., and thats not even really bombing.
[ This Message was edited by: SPaRTaN Z (Star Fox) on 2010-06-11 07:12 ]
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
