| Author |
REQUEST: Help me test. |
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
|  Posted: 2010-05-03 07:06
No, I will not pay you.
Basically the Stations thread is getting filled with a lot of theorising on how to "fix" the problem of Station over-usage, and rather than writing up compelling arguments of biased experience I'd rather get some results from in-game tests.
Obviously we'd do this on Beta because prestige farming is bad.
What I need:
Pilots. Lots of them. Vice Admirals and up.
What I intend to test: various ICC vessels against UGTO Stations.
Ideally:
Three Missile Dreadnoughts
Four Assault Dreadnoughts
Two Assault Cruisers
VS
Six Stations
One Interdictor
(optionally: two or three Heavy Supplies)
with ICC defending a Shipyard planet.
My hypothesis is that one or two Stations may be destroyed, but it is likely that they will be able to overrun the planet.
Even if they fail, the losses on either side should be interesting: the point is to propose UGTO Stations are overpowered despite our best efforts to fight them off.
If we're right, then the ICC force should be badly damaged or eradicated at the end.
Strictly numbers speaking, UGTO has a force of 12 Dreadnoughts (1 Station = 2 Dreads to defeat) fielded, whereas ICC has notably less. I feel these circumstances are still best for the purposes of this test, given that those Stations should die really fast to concentrated fire unless we are right and it really is too difficult to defeat the Stations.
It'd be nice if staffmembers would participate as well for first-hand experiences, so they can be a judge of whether we exaggerate or not.
Post ITT if you are interested. We'll do it during a weekend sometime.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-05-03 07:22
I might help.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-03 07:27
In all honesty, this is ridiculous, silly, and pointless.
All factions have the same issue. A K'luth or ICC fleet fielding 7-8 stations vs a smaller fleet has the same advantage of utility and fire power. What you're complaining about here is population, something we cannot fix.
If you want to test, do it the same each and every way. At least then you can give us examples of how the stations fair. Even then, each is situational and to be used in a different manner. A K'luth station cannot be used in the same way an ICC or UGTO station can, for example.
I'd like to make it clear that we will never balance game assets based on population numbers. All that will do is promote players to join the least populated side at that time due to their 'buff', and we'll have a round-about game.
Player numbers are not something we can control, that's up to you guys. Lately I've noticed many players voicing the same negative stigma. Not only is it completely false, but damages the chances of players joining your faction. Flaunting false information over certain aspects of the game not only damages the game, but hurts your own ability to pull new players into those factions. Think before you speak!
Historically DarkSpace has always gone through shifts like this. The game shifts constantly, and even without a change to game dynamics, players can wander over to a particular faction and pull their friends/fleet with them. The same goes for other games. World of Warcraft for example, used to have an average of 75%/25% load base across their two factions (alliance/horde). Neither gave a particular advantage over the other - it was just the mindset of the players. It would have been irresponsible and short-sighted of the developers to balance the game based on these numbers.
What I'd like to see is more recruitment going on, as I rarely see any from some particular factions (although I have to give props to a few K'luth fleets and players on their attentiveness to new players - well done!).
I'll reiterate the main point again. We will never balance game assets based on player population on a particular faction. It would be irresponsible and short-sighted of us to do such a thing.
-J
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-05-03 07:43 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-03 07:33
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 07:27, BackSlash wrote:
Ridiculous, silly, and pointless.
All stations have the same issue. A K'luth or ICC fleet fielding 7-8 stations vs a smaller fleet has the same advantage of utility and fire power.
If you want to test, do it the same each and every way. Otherwise this is just a pointless waste of time.
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Right. So you know it's not the stations, but the number of stations.
So what's gonna be done about the station spam?
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-03 07:45
Spamming stations is something I hope to bring up next dev meeting. However, forcing players out of a ship they both want to, and have earnt the right to fly, is not a good thing.
I've voiced opinions on this in the game before, on all factions, and the response from most is that "I will leave the game if they do that".
It's a very tricky issue, and something we'll need to address correctly, and not something we want to spit out a quick fix for. Not everyone likes spamming stations. Sure it can be a blast to jump in 7 at a time, but it slows the pace down. I myself have been (very) vocal in-game when players bring out more than are needed.
However, I don't think stations are overpowered. In-fact, they seem all too easy to destroy nowadays (on all factions). I'd personally love to give them a buff whilst lowering their usage drastically, but as I stated above, implementing such a system is difficult in such a way that doesn't hurt anyone (although I feel this is something that we cannot avoid).
-J
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-05-03 07:51 ]
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2010-05-03 08:08
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 07:45, BackSlash wrote:
However, I don't think stations are overpowered. In-fact, they seem all too easy to destroy nowadays (on all factions).
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Seriously, it is not hard to take them down. Two people in dreads can pretty easily take one down.
And if you were to limit the amount of stations allowed at a time, it would just make people either want to use them more, or AFK in deep darkspace in one whenever they arn't playing.. lol
I think the real issue isn't QQachoo about how ICC is teh suxxor (Which proven last night, they fare just fine.) Its the fact that I don't have a super sexy Marshal scout yet.. =*(
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I'll chain you to the truth,
For the truth shall set you free,
I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
And bury you with honesty.
I'll make all your dreams come to life,
And slay them as quickly as they came.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-05-03 09:23
Well, I guess we won't need to test anything then.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-03 10:24
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 07:06, Bardiche wrote:
Even if they fail, the losses on either side should be interesting: the point is to propose UGTO Stations are overpowered despite our best efforts to fight them off.
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and this was NOT the reason i made that thread. i do not claim that UGTO stations are overpowered.
i claim that they ALL are.
don't use that thread to try and get UGTO nerfed and everyone else buffed. i'm mearly mentioning UGTO because they are the ones station spamming the most at the moment.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-03 10:27
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 08:08, MarshalChaos wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 07:45, BackSlash wrote:
However, I don't think stations are overpowered. In-fact, they seem all too easy to destroy nowadays (on all factions).
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Seriously, it is not hard to take them down. Two people in dreads can pretty easily take one down.
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ONE yes, 5 to 8? good luck with that.
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2010-05-03 10:58
All extra stations do is provide more supply drones, two, maybe three can fire at once without mass FF. And if they all move to a position to where they can all fire, then they all can't resupply one person..
_________________
I'll chain you to the truth,
For the truth shall set you free,
I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
And bury you with honesty.
I'll make all your dreams come to life,
And slay them as quickly as they came.
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SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
| Posted: 2010-05-03 11:41
ok lets lay down some facts
now we all know RSM is the most active fleet for UGTO correct yes ok
now RSM have roughtly 60 players correct yes
now roughtly 22 of the RSM (including me) fleet can gain access to stations correct yes
now this is a guess but when i log in to the lobby the most RSM we have around and this is a guess of 20 players ok
also the last time i played which was on i think friday we were battling kluth they had a dictor a fair few dreads and some other ships. now granted that on that day their were quite afew RSM players that day and some other players as well the station count then was about 2 or 3 before i got my Battle Station out and was in it the whole time i played. later on the max station count was im guessing 5 stations (some one tell me if im wrong) BUT the ships i mostly saw were Dreads oh and one dictor (kluth used it against us so one of the ugto payers got one out too (kinda like a taste of their own meds type deal) yes granted i took out bout 3 or 4 wounded kluth dreads in the dictor field the others did the rest).
this is later on kluth went off and hid but ONLY DUE TO OUR DICTOR (me personally dont like them and would quite frankly fight without them EVEN A FIGHT I COULD NEVER WIN) and ill put this straight i dont hate the pilot of the dictor i just hate the dictor its self. Any way going off track now when kluth went off we went off to look for icc and find veronw and afew players so instead of fighting them i had a great chat with veronw while still chatting with them thehy got out Missile Dreads and spammed me with missiles at first they didnt do much damage but as soon as they sync'ed their firing i was then taking heavy damage and ran while having the same conversation.
now what im getting at is this stations arent overpowered or invinceable and to me i like the way it IS RIGHT NOW. lets give a theroy to this all lets say you have 2 or 3 noobs in stations that dont know a thing about them and you get a well co-ordinated battle group of 2 or 4 dreads who are very experienced .... those 2 or 4 dreads will desimate the noobs in the stations with out losing any of their own aslo to close my post is that yes sure theres gonna be stations around you cant stop that but you always can take them down if you think about it
as a side note and i must say this RSM at this current stage is the most active fleet/clan around (talking about ingame active) also this is the way of the MV its a cycle first kluth is the almighty faction then players rotate and then a new faction is the best and it keeps going lets say one day ugto is the most populated and that no one can take them on the next day it could be icc ......... it will keep on going
now my very last theroy of the post is this lets say Darkspace completely balanced and all the bugs are fixed .......... then what we are still going to complain about ohhh look icc has the most players or kluth has the most players
you see with EVERY SINGLE GAME i have played one team has more players and the other team complains i personally have to say this and no offence but GET USED TO IT you could have the most perfect online game in the world and still complain as one side has more players
there is i think only one way to solve the one side got more players thing is hav auto balance which i hate either way
sorry for your time lets get back to the MV and start some battles
this was a message from SaturnShadow
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Aradrox
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 133
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2010-05-04 02:20
just increse the pres loss for stations to around 1500 i got 50k pres 1500 isnt that much it really isnt thats less then a days work in either a CD or AD or a MS42A its just enough to make people think twice about do i wana bring out this station and take the risk of losing all the pres i gained today.... if you are up to Fleet Admiral you know how to gain prestige very quickly if i want i can turn out 3k combat prestige a day in my AD or even turn out 1k in SS with 1k+ Repair
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-04 02:40
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 11:41, SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness) wrote:
ok lets lay down some facts
now we all know RSM is the most active fleet for UGTO correct yes ok
now RSM have roughtly 60 players correct yes
now roughtly 22 of the RSM (including me) fleet can gain access to stations correct yes
now this is a guess but when i log in to the lobby the most RSM we have around and this is a guess of 20 players ok
also the last time i played which was on i think friday we were battling kluth they had a dictor a fair few dreads and some other ships. now granted that on that day their were quite afew RSM players that day and some other players as well the station count then was about 2 or 3 before i got my Battle Station out and was in it the whole time i played. later on the max station count was im guessing 5 stations (some one tell me if im wrong) BUT the ships i mostly saw were Dreads oh and one dictor (kluth used it against us so one of the ugto payers got one out too (kinda like a taste of their own meds type deal) yes granted i took out bout 3 or 4 wounded kluth dreads in the dictor field the others did the rest).
this is later on kluth went off and hid but ONLY DUE TO OUR DICTOR (me personally dont like them and would quite frankly fight without them EVEN A FIGHT I COULD NEVER WIN) and ill put this straight i dont hate the pilot of the dictor i just hate the dictor its self. Any way going off track now when kluth went off we went off to look for icc and find veronw and afew players so instead of fighting them i had a great chat with veronw while still chatting with them thehy got out Missile Dreads and spammed me with missiles at first they didnt do much damage but as soon as they sync'ed their firing i was then taking heavy damage and ran while having the same conversation.
now what im getting at is this stations arent overpowered or invinceable and to me i like the way it IS RIGHT NOW. lets give a theroy to this all lets say you have 2 or 3 noobs in stations that dont know a thing about them and you get a well co-ordinated battle group of 2 or 4 dreads who are very experienced .... those 2 or 4 dreads will desimate the noobs in the stations with out losing any of their own aslo to close my post is that yes sure theres gonna be stations around you cant stop that but you always can take them down if you think about it
as a side note and i must say this RSM at this current stage is the most active fleet/clan around (talking about ingame active) also this is the way of the MV its a cycle first kluth is the almighty faction then players rotate and then a new faction is the best and it keeps going lets say one day ugto is the most populated and that no one can take them on the next day it could be icc ......... it will keep on going
now my very last theroy of the post is this lets say Darkspace completely balanced and all the bugs are fixed .......... then what we are still going to complain about ohhh look icc has the most players or kluth has the most players
you see with EVERY SINGLE GAME i have played one team has more players and the other team complains i personally have to say this and no offence but GET USED TO IT you could have the most perfect online game in the world and still complain as one side has more players
there is i think only one way to solve the one side got more players thing is hav auto balance which i hate either way
sorry for your time lets get back to the MV and start some battles
this was a message from SaturnShadow
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I will never read your posts again if you keep writing like that.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-04 02:50
Ok back to the topic.
Breaking ugto station spam for icc , it isnt that hard.
Somehow, intentionaly or not , game is balanced at a point . Icc simply can pull missile dreads and pawn ugto stations in equal numbers . But the same tactic cant be used against kluth even if we hug a planet and stay still. Kluth cant break ugto station spam if kluth has no 2 dreads for each station. So if there is 2 stations 4 dreads would be enough to kill one and go for the next. This goes on like that. In the same way Kluth can break any icc station spam in equal numbers. Then again Icc will spend more time and more resources to cap a kluth planet than a ugto planet. And the list goes like that .
Only sad thing about ugto station spam is that while player base grows tacticaly it becomes harder for kluth and icc to break ugto station spam while ugto only uses "key" to supply eachother.
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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