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Stations, what are they good for? |
Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
|  Posted: 2010-05-01 18:27
Well, almost everything.
they kick pretty much anything when it comes to defending planets.
they do the same when it comes to attacking planets if they use worm holes, no way can you kill 4 - 5 (or even ONE of them) stations popping out of a WH thats ~500 GU from the targer planet before they have dropped and went back into the worm hole again (dont say this isnt possible, UGTO did this ALOT earlier today)
they may not boast with supreme firepower but they have enough of that and survivability to make stations a way more appealing choice then anything else when theres sufficient numbers of them.
stations needs to be toned down in a way that makes having to MANY of them impractical. ppl would still be allowed to use as many as they want, but using almost nothing but stations should come at a huge disadvantage.
take planetcapping for example, 6 - 7 support stations using a WH to come close enough have little to no problem landing all their troops on it even if its heavily defended by a balanced assortement of ships (ranging from cruisers to one or 2 stations). if the defenders were using tons and tons of stations aswell they might be able to kill one or 2 but you'd still end up with 6 or 7 loads of hostile inf on the planet.
and then we have planet defending. the same 6 or 7 support stations would have only slight issues defending a planet from a incomming enemy fleet that isnt using WH's, and having a few GA stations insted of a few of the support stations almost guarantee a win.
seriously i'm getting pretty tired of TRYING to play the game like the devs want me to just to come against fleets after fleets of almost nothing but stations.
this game is so close to be unoficially renamed from dreadspace to stationspace now :/
now before you burn me up here.
i dont argue that stations shouldn't be good. what i'm arguing against is that many stations > everything else in most situations.
stations imo should be situational, right now they are not. otherwise you wouldn't see 8 or 10 of them out at once whenever a battle forms up.
ppl pull stations because they just are that good in so many situations.
[ This Message was edited by: Jar Jar Binks on 2010-05-01 18:29 ]
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-05-01 18:32
I agree.
Stationspam is boring to fight, hard to counter, and a general fun stopper.
Supply stations are the worst. 4 of them can concentrate their reloads onto one, and make a near-invincible tank, nevermind the hoards of newbs in sups that normaly follow them.
There should be some form of disadvantage for stationspam, or they need to be nerfed. either way, something is going to need tweaking.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-01 18:44
take ~30 minutes ago. ICC trying to retabe their home cluster in sag. rolls up with 2 (i think) stations, a bomber dread and some combat dreads + suppys and some cruisers. got one planet and i thought "man this might actually work".
moved on to a second planet and BAM, 6 UGTO support stations and ONE dread show up and pretty much BBQ's us within minutes.
now we KNEW that they were gonna show up. but there just isnt ANY way an equal ammount of mumbers in anything else but stations would have even had a snowballs chance in a VERY hot place to beat those stations.
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Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
| Posted: 2010-05-01 18:55
thare should be a cap on how meany stations can be deployed (i know this is kinda planned alllready)
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-05-01 19:10
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 18:55, Admiral CRAZY45 wrote:
thare should be a cap on how meany stations can be deployed (i know this is kinda planned alllready)
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+1
Would be interesting if all ships had a cap limit, to force there to be balanced fleets. now That, would be cool, and would totaly break up this whole "dreadspace" theory.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-01 19:15
Since you brought this up I have to mention a few thing .
Stations uberness goes towards to station number/ratio. Basicly 2 very good piloted or 3 commonly piloted krill is needed for each station to kill. When there is a second station repairing the targeted station then we need the fourth dread. When there is a 3rd station repairing to targeted station we need 5-6 dreads to kill the targeted station.( nobody cloaks and fire until target is down).While other stations kill us too. However many of us saw that was coming .Many of icc and kluth saw this coming from long ago. Since there is no limit about how many drones can a ship have on to be repaired and since game is free and there are tons of ugtos playing i think problem will get further and bigger. I really admire people who play as ICC. Somehow kluth can do the same thing as ugto, but play style and faction design isnt meant for that ,icc players must be realy frustrated Ugto repair rate.
It isnt only stations but all ugto ships get that benefit. Last couple of days ugto started to show off a new tactic to encounter kluth ahr . Yes every ugto dread has its personal supply  Wasnt hard to figure out that EAD fully moded with defense enhancement gets 1% armor every 1 second only with a heavy supply repairing it.
The point is : This was not a problem when there was a few playing ,but numbers are groving and it will get worst.
Note: so you know why there is an allience between kluth and icc whenever there are 8 ugto stations hugging a planet.
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Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
| Posted: 2010-05-01 19:32
It has gotten beyond stupid silly when you can take a fleet of 4 to 6 dreads with a station supporting it, and expect to actually accomplish something.
Mainly because most ugto now actually resport to having MULTIPLE duplicate ships in their garadges and continusly throwing at them untill they die... it gets bad when those ships are battlestations and support stations that you have to kill 3-4 times to actually keep them out of the fight for the time being.
recently a fight ended with 7 stations, 4 dreadnoughts and 5 cruisers on ugto against.... two dreadnoughts on icc and two cruisers on kluth... now only did ugto pull out an interdictor, they pulled out TWO interdictors and didnt bother capturing the shipyard planet after capturing the planet next to it...
yeah... the spam of stations has only gotten worse now that we have the weekend GAs from the recentish huge income from combat and its only going to continue to GET worse, as it is oh so easy for ugto to get ooodles of repair prestiege constantly
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-01 19:36
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 18:55, Admiral CRAZY45 wrote:
thare should be a cap on how meany stations can be deployed (i know this is kinda planned alllready)
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no it shouldn't be a cap on anything.
they need to make having multiple stations out at once unappealing.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2010-05-01 19:59
a fix to that would be lower the over all attack power on stations. no reason a supply station( support ) needs that much firepower. also removing 1 supply drone off of battle stations would cut down on there repair ability too.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-01 20:06
aye, support stations should be just that. SUPPORT stations. not something you take to the frontlines of a battle. and the battle stations should be just that aswell, a BATTLE station, not a mobile self repairing death star.
support stations should have some defensive capabilities in terms of firepower but no matter how many you take to a battle should NOT pose to much of a threat to a decent sized balanced fleet of ships.
battle stations on the other hand should have firepower, but not so much that you can win ANY battle of equal numbers by using only those.
so ditch the core weapons of the support stations, load it up with some rails/pcannons/PSI cannons and remove half of its missile banks.
cant say anything about the battle stations as i cant use those yet.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2010-05-01 20:10
i agree there remove core weaps off of support stations. i feel support stations should be a station to fall back for repairs durring large fights. not front line defenders.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-05-01 20:13
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
Oh not that sorta thread...
Nerf Close range, Improve Long Range, or visa versa.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2010-05-01 20:15 ]
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2010-05-01 21:07
Even if we remove core weaps off support class stations the problem will still be there. With a bunch of support stations fixing a couple battle class stations.
The root of the problem is the class based armor/firepower (linear progression) system. Meaning according to the ideal model for 1 station it takes 2 dreads, 4 cruisers etc. Which means for the same numbers an army of station dominates.
Will this issue be ever fixed? Not unless we add some class of ships weak against small class ships but strong against high class ships.
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-05-01 21:35
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 20:06, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
cant say anything about the battle stations as i cant use those yet.
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1. here's a reason for all the stations. all the people that were dreads have gain a rank and are moving to stations.
2 okay I hear complaining about UGTO, as of late ugto has been kicking butt, but Two months ago it was luth who was kicking butt so ppl were wanting luth to get nerfed. I do salute the icc players as much beating as their getting but there time will come and everyone else will be complaining and wanting ICC to get nerfed. so instead of wanting one faction to better then the others, how about finding each factions strengths and using them and preventing the other factions exploiting your factions weakness.
3. I do agree on the fact that support stations do need to be rear guard units instead of in the front lines.
P.S. yes there are a newbs in supps but thats because there is alot us of dreads and stations, and we all know what a dread or a station can do to a cruiser and below. plus a dessie's and below can hardly put a dent dread unless it's a incomtant pilot in the dread (1v1 of course)
[ This Message was edited by: James296 on 2010-05-01 22:36 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-05-01 21:36
issues with station spam. they can't fight effectively because of all the FF. You don't see all those UGTO SS's shooting at once becasue all those missles would FF there allies and make for pres loss instead of gain. Station rushing on the other hand CAN be stopped and HAS been stopped before. ICC tried this last week and got shut down pretty bad by 3 UGTO stations, 2 EAD's and some BD's. We were able to only drop 3 loads of inf for an unsuccessful cap.
UGTO station spam is rediculas becasue of ONE thing. Armor reapirs, and with all those armor plates it goes up pretty fast. ICC can't do this because well.....shields don't repair. So this issue is mostly based on balance issues more then just a tactic. This wouldn't be much of an issue if ICC could do the SAME thing as UGTO.
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