| Author |
[Suggestion] AWAC/Long Range Radar Ship |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2010-04-22 00:50
I posted this in Beta, but will repeat this here just to get a feel of what u guys think.
I've an idea for a new class of ship. More useful for ICC and UGTO perhaps.
In modern naval n aerial warfare, one of the key assets is the AWAC aircraft. I'm talking abt aircraft like the IL76 Mainstay, E3 Sentry, E2 Hawkeye. They provide fleets with long range detection capabilities n C3.
I'm asking u guys, what if DS had a frig or des that carried a long range radar?
Call it the Radar Frig/Des.
Picture a light ship that has, like the Dictor Cruiser, part of it's weapons complement replaced by a heavy long range sensor suite.
When turned on, this radar will be able to detect uncloaked vessels up to 15000gus away.
Within an 8000gu range, all uncloaked vessels will be immediately detected n be shown on the faction's F2 Tactical. Between 8000 to 15000, detectability will gracefully degrade or fall off to zero.
How this could happen perhaps would be to add 300 to the signature of all ships within 8000 to make them immediately detectable, and then have the sig amplification taper off after 8000 to zero at 15000.
I dont know exactly how sig mechanics work in DS, but how this would affect Kluth would be to significantly slow down their cloak/decloak duration in a proportionately similar ratio to the detection range I specified above.
The downside to the AWAC vessel would that the moment its radar goes up, his own sig would go up so high that he would be detectable system wide. That plus a high energy consumption similar to the dictor.
How will this change gameplay?
Ships will find it more difficult to ejump and escape. Players shd begin to plan their escape route earlier.
Kluths will have to time their attacks more carefully as they will be more exposed.
ECM will now have to be deployed more strategically at range to hide fleet movements
The Radar ship will be a prime target and will have to be defended accordingly.
Being a fast destroyer or frig, dreads will have a hard time chasing this radar ship down. Most probably cruisers n lighter vessels will be deployed to pursue it. Hopefully we will see more light ships be used in the game as a result.
The radar ship need not specfIically have to be a frig or dessie. It could also be a modified supp ship with the drones removed.
What do you guys think?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-22 00:52 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-04-22 01:45
Good solid idea, will get my +1
I am in favor of a Dessy class ship to add just a touch of survivability to the ship, not much, but some. Basically the anti cloak ship I have been talking about already but dose it with the already built in weakness to Kluth. Range seemed a little excessive as we can only see 5k out normal sig. However it dose seem adequate as we are talking about a fleet wide ship with people hovering between 1-2k away from one another at max.
Minor weps on the ship much like how the dico is now. Just 4 guns and some PD along with whatever normal armor is for Dessy class ship.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-22 02:07
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 01:45, Fast Starcommand *CO* wrote:
Good solid idea, will get my +1
I am in favor of a Dessy class ship to add just a touch of survivability to the ship, not much, but some. Basically the anti cloak ship I have been talking about already but dose it with the already built in weakness to Kluth. Range seemed a little excessive as we can only see 5k out normal sig. However it dose seem adequate as we are talking about a fleet wide ship with people hovering between 1-2k away from one another at max.
Minor weps on the ship much like how the dico is now. Just 4 guns and some PD along with whatever normal armor is for Dessy class ship.
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IMO cloak is cloak. No device should be able to detect cloaked ships just like that. It's a core characteristic of the Kluth. Rendering cloak penetrable by a device would be the same like, say... Kluth or UGTO having shield piercing weapons. Or Kluth having super ELFs that completely n utterly drain UGTO ships energy reserves in 3 secs flat.
If ever there was an anti cloak device, it should be limited to
- lengthening the cloak/decloak time
- temporarily dropping the cloak
If an AWAC ship does the first point above, it will already have made an impact on how cloak ships attack n retreat.
The detection range for the radar is open to argument. But it should be long enough to justify the ship's purpose n existence in the first place. 15000 Gus is not excessive IMO. That figure is a tiny fraction of each system. N the radar should have a detection falloff too.
Feel free to counter or add on.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-22 02:17 ]
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Aradrox
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 133
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2010-04-22 06:37
well id suggest it different way then raising sig to extrmely high levels because this would effect K'luth to where there cloak would be useless wich even tho im a ICC player i dont want to see that (i think cloak is a little OP but that is my opinion and i think we need a better counter then pinging) im not sure how the devs could go about it but im sure they could code something to work without raising the sig to VERY high levels one way would be is that the ships will have a MAX sig that it can be raised to per range from the radar vessel essentially have falloff in BOTH directions. on a side note i think the EAD should have atleast one ECCM cause atm it is in capable of pinging wich i dont think any dread should be incapable of pinging at all AD has a ping why shouldnt EAD
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-22 06:53
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 06:37, Fleet Admiral Aranox wrote:
well id suggest it different way then raising sig to extrmely high levels because this would effect K'luth to where there cloak would be useless wich even tho im a ICC player i dont want to see that (i think cloak is a little OP but that is my opinion and i think we need a better counter then pinging) im not sure how the devs could go about it but im sure they could code something to work without raising the sig to VERY high levels one way would be is that the ships will have a MAX sig that it can be raised to per range from the radar vessel essentially have falloff in BOTH directions. on a side note i think the EAD should have atleast one ECCM cause atm it is in capable of pinging wich i dont think any dread should be incapable of pinging at all AD has a ping why shouldnt EAD
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Erm... how about, the radar affects only uncloaked vessels? Cloaked vessels don't get their sigs raised?
But yer right. As I said, I dunno how sig mechanics work in DS, so I took a stab in the dark.
Maybe it could be made such that everything within uncloaked within the optimal detection range regardless of sig level is picked up on the scope. Then after optimal range, it falls off till max range.
I don't know. Maybe new variables will be needed here.
But first, I would like to hear a Dev's opinion on whether this is even feasible at all.....
.... then, as usual, any player idea or feedback is always subjected to their whim and fancy to consider/shoot down/dismiss/laugh at/ etc etc etc. 
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-04-22 08:08
Sensor Corvette
Long Range Scout
Talon
your ships.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-04-22 08:42
Long range scout is mostly a Missile scout. But i don't think those scouts see "farther" because of the mere names, if its ECCM's, i think Anti sensor scout does the job way better than long range (not sure thou, i can't remember the anti sensor's load out, feel free to correct me)
As for the idea, its a good idea,but not something i'd put my full support on. I ECMed my aggi until -4 sig once and i was still clearly target able by missiles and fighter and was quickly jumped by ships at distances of over 3500GU+
i think thats already a pretty huge radar especially since i was in negative 4 sigs
Actually, i might go for that idea, But the standard ships needs to lose some radar range after
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-22 08:50
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:08, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
Sensor Corvette
Long Range Scout
Talon
your ships.
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But then you'd have to be up close to the enemy.
This isn't a scout. It doesn't have to get close to you.
This is a ship that can see you 10000gus away because it's basically paints you in a huge spotlight from long range, and all his buddies will be able to see you in Tactical too.
Hence the term Radar ship. Not scout.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-04-22 08:52
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:08, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
Sensor Corvette
Long Range Scout
Talon
your ships.
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The Sensor corvette, Longrange scout and talon need some overhauling. The sensor corv has 2 eccm, and is better off as a fighter scout. The longrange is also equipped with 3(?) eccm, and best as a missile platform. The talon is practically incapable of anything useful to the luth, with only 1 ecm and small cannons.
I strongly suggest beacons are moved to sensor ships, and sensor ships get an overhaul. For the sensor corv, guess the regular rail gun and the torp can be removed for an extra eccm/scanner and a beacon. The longrange should have 2 missiles and an extra eccm, and probably a beacon. Same applies for the talon, put a beacon on it and an extra ecm. The other beacon scouts should have their beacons removed, and should have less of sensor suites and more of beams.
Any comments?
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-04-22 11:36
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:52, Boom Dude wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:08, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
Sensor Corvette
Long Range Scout
Talon
your ships.
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The Sensor corvette, Longrange scout and talon need some overhauling. The sensor corv has 2 eccm, and is better off as a fighter scout. The longrange is also equipped with 3(?) eccm, and best as a missile platform. The talon is practically incapable of anything useful to the luth, with only 1 ecm and small cannons.
I strongly suggest beacons are moved to sensor ships, and sensor ships get an overhaul. For the sensor corv, guess the regular rail gun and the torp can be removed for an extra eccm/scanner and a beacon. The longrange should have 2 missiles and an extra eccm, and probably a beacon. Same applies for the talon, put a beacon on it and an extra ecm. The other beacon scouts should have their beacons removed, and should have less of sensor suites and more of beams.
Any comments?
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the regular railgun can be removed, but the trop needs to stay as that evens it with the assualt cov
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-04-22 11:43
Quote:
| On 2010-04-22 08:52, Boom Dude wrote:
Any comments? |
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New missiles
&
If we removed beacons from corvettes, then only the Picket and Escort Destroyer would have them..
We got em on Corvettes for a reason, To make corvettes a bit useful again.
And at last. We won't be ever introducing a ship/gadget that allows sensor rage above 2500gu, and won't take into account the ship Signatures and natural ECM.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-04-22 11:46
Recon scout is what you guys are thinking of. Its got 5 sensors and a beacon thats it. Beacons are not what there all cracked up to be. Only 3 work and the rest are just ignored, I have beaconed ships and they still were able to cloak. If every ship got a beacon then there wouldn't be any more issues, everyone would be able to counter the cloak to some degree.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2010-04-22 14:02
Anti-sensor scout is UGTO's has the larger sensor suit in the ugto arsenal.
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Max Kepler
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: March 08, 2002
Posts: 589
From: ICS Victory
| Posted: 2010-04-22 14:18
The way this is initially suggested to work wouldn't work. If you wanted a Radar ship, you might be able to get away one of the following without screwing everything else up:
-The radar ship simply multiplies signature by a factor within some range. Ships with 5 now have 10, 10 have 20, etc. It would not help the detection of cloaked ships or ships with negative signature already (unless you wanted to give it a set increase to negative signature ships, maybe +3). If you wanted to go this route, the radar ship should be very vulnerable to K'luth attacks (Frigate or Scout Size with lots of energy drain to keep them from moving much), otherwise it's too hard for the lobsters. It would, however, give them some incentive to fly smaller ships that can hit and run the sensor ship before bringing in the big dreads.
-The radar ship makes all non-negative sig ships in some range visible under F2/Navigation, but has NO tactical effect.
-The radar ship is basically a giant ECCM but does NOT have a constant effect like regular ECCM. It can only ping once every, say, 15-20 seconds. You may even include the ability to detect cloaked ships (again, in this case, you'd want to make them vulnerable to K'luth). In this way, you can detect the presence of enemies but not have a definite tactical advantage over them.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2010-04-22 19:17
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:50, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-04-22 08:08, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
Sensor Corvette
Long Range Scout
Talon
your ships.
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But then you'd have to be up close to the enemy.
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That is the point. Do it right and flying a sensor scout is already very easy.
Stop looking for an I win button.
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