| Author |
Throwing ideas out |
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
|  Posted: 2010-02-14 23:24
I used to play the game alot, altought i dotn sub now, im always cehcking for changes to see if the game actaully changes from its big Dreapsace issue 
So, im jus tthinkign of ideas, feel fre to blast away like hell, or help up a bit with those
First off, a bit of history
Does anyone remembers during WWII in the pacific Theather the way it was fought? Battleships beign the pure mass of firepower etc etc, pretty much like it is in dread space. Remember how also was the best way to stop to slow moving Mass of firepower?
Yes Dessis were useful cuz of torps and sort, but they still lacked the survivability, well let me say
"Carriers" If battleships captain feared one thing, it was carriers, and its torp/dive bomber
SO back to Darkspace
I use to really, REALLY, love the Argi Carrier of UGTO, altought they lacked the proper firepower for combat, i come by and propose this
1st,
Make the dread's PD, limited (Heavy chemi unable to PD, and reduce standart Chemi
(Since ICC is defensive, they have a bigger strong point with there pulsebeams, but still limited)
And give the PD ability more useful to cruiser ships and destroyers. There now we have Dread with load of firepower, but weak VS fighters
2ND
The carriers have fighter, there good, in fact perfect for taking out Dessis and cruisers, but they might lack taking on a Dread thou, espeically if it has to go trought armor and/or sheild. and since inty are simply useless well i sugest replacing them into Anti-capital ship Bombers. Bomber equip with special bobms that does huge damage on ships, maybe a very little AOE to limit damage on other ships around, Down side of those? Only useful agasint Dread and station, since cruiser and dessie are packed with PD that can kill the bomber and there bombs, and well they also can simply outrun a bomb itself
Point being, the Carrier can sit at far range, out of enemy scan, and simply launch its bomber at unsuspecting ships.( happened to em once, we had a fleet ready and 3 carrier only kept launching fighter over and over, but we couldn't know where the carrier was)
The Carrier would also act great as a support ship, since it snot good in combat at all, probably weaker armor too, its gonne be a prime target if spotted, but its presence would make Dreads and station think twice before startign a fight, there for, Small ships would be usefull in taking the carrier out
Altough, the Carrier itself beign a Dread,it woudl act as a dread controller, too many carrier equal's great anti Dread, but..poor vs Cruiser and dessie.
The bomber feature wouldn't be limited to dreads,ICC have a carrier cruiser than can be feared by dreads in this case, and i know some Cruiser should be able to launch a bomber or 2 for support
If theres anything wrong with this idea, pls be kind to point them out and help me fix them up
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-02-15 00:03
I really suggest you to not throw your ideas out.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-02-15 00:21
May i know why?
Quote:
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If theres anything wrong with this idea, pls be kind to point them out and help me fix them up
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I guess just that is too much asked
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2010-02-15 00:24 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-02-15 00:29
Dreadspace eh?
Well, you can't stop human nature. We all want to drive the latest and greatest, or in the context of DS, the biggest and baddest. Asking a person to do otherwise, whether for the good or detriment of the game, would be pointless. It's a free country (world/server) the last time I remembered. 
Now, in my humble opinion, there can be a few ways that can help mitigate the issue.
Now, I assume we're all talking about our beloved Sag server, the center of all conflict?
1) The game could populate the region with AI cruisers and destroyers in the ratio of 2:1 (AI:Players). The AI's would be deployed when a faction has captured more than 30% of the planets in the system.
I believe the faction's home servers are already populated with AI cruisers and desses? Yes they can be stupid at times, so I have a 2nd suggestion below.
Or perhaps:
2) When a subbed player has achieved a rank of above 1RA, he may "purchase" (using resources) up to 2 or 3 AI Destroyer and below classed vessels.
He will have basic command of his escorts, perhaps like:
a) escort/defend me
b) attack my target
c) bomb my target planet (for applicable classed vessels)
Of course, once he gives the command, the AI will carry it out autonomously. As a commander of a flotilla, he will simply delegate out a task to his sub-commanders who will carry it out to the best of their perhaps limited abilities.
Either way, this will populate the MV with more smaller classed vessels. You wanted Dreads to be special? They will be.
Feel free to flame, dissect, comment, or discuss. 
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-02-15 00:34
in other word, making yur own squad of ai ships, i dont think the idea is bad actually
your true about human nature, i am not attmetpting to stop it, but just throwing out an exra reason to use smaller ships, these guys are still free to mass the Dreads, the case is, Carrier loaded with those anti cap ship bomber would hurt them as well as station, espeicla if there carrier itself is unseen out of range
its all about tactics and strategy really
hell, combining the Squad ai idea of yours, you can have your carrier defended by your Ai squad
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Jackal'
Admiral
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 22
From: Connecticut U.S.A.
| Posted: 2010-02-15 03:44
The problem with all these ideas are fundamental. The idea of having Heavy assault fighters, bigger slower fighters that do more damage to slower targets like you say, or having ai under your control isn't bad. It would add depth to the game. They need polishing, but are not bad. But what your trying to do is make it easier for 1 new guy to take on 1 vet and bring him down. It isn't fair to the people who have put the work in. Look around on the MV these days, there's only 1 vet on to every 3 VA>. So in theory, if those "little guys" wanted to take down the vet, all they'd need to do is work together. It's just not fair to someone like Coombie or challenger, who have been playing this game for 9 years to have someone like me who has only been playin for a couple months get in a ship that can just up and kill them. Even in my UGTO carrier dread, i'm no match for combie in his krill, or Challenger (even though he's ugto. just comparing) in his EAD. And that's the way it should be. BUT, if say, some 1RA in his battlecruiser were to work with me against coombie or chall, we might have a chance. And that teaches me to be a better player, gives me more of a challenge, and forces me to EARN and RESPECT what they have accomplished as players.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-02-15 05:19
I agree with Jackal.
If the playing field was level, then there would be no incentive to level or rank up, no incentive to subscribe, and no incentive to be playing this game for a long time.
Earlier I suggested that subbed (1RA rank) players be given the option to commandeer his own little flotilla or squadron of AI ships?
Also I mentioned inclusion of AI Cruiser/Destroyer/Frigate class AI vessels (as in the faction's home system).
What I neglected to think of was, what if, like the current situation, one faction (UGTO) has more players than the others? Especially subbed and higher ranked ones? Will the system be then flooded with Dreads and their AI escort destroyers?
Their undermanned, understaffed opponents would then be overrun.
Perhaps then, a mechanism could be included into the game to mitigate some semblence of gameplay balance in terms of numerical superiority.
Perhaps, if I could suggest that if one side has lotsa Dreads with their escorts, the game could mitigate that the other side would automatically deploy purely autonomous AI cruiser and below classed vessels in proportion to the number of planets owned by that faction in the system.
The problem I see in the MV now is two-fold.
The lack of players, ergo the number of ships.... and the lack of ship variety.
This could help solve some of the problems. You would have more ships to shoot at, and those ships would be the smaller classed and not so invincible ones.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-02-15 05:43
I'll get back to you on this...
Other websites took the most of my lunch break.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-02-15 08:39
i agree Jackal, your right, you worked for the Dreads hard, thus you want to fly it.
Then agains, i wasn't looking to give the Carrier new guys either, it is a dread itself after all, could be just as hard to get. Then you get an anti-dread, thats just plan weak Vs anything, even agaisnt dread at close range
THe idea was not to fully give the new player a way to kill vet easier,I didnt not wish to give the carrier to new player "Oh god how horrible would it be" but rather just another way to fight for vet, added tactics and strategy
Take me, if i'd get to chose between a Combat or Even EAD thats anti everything, or a carrier that just sites out of sight and support my buddys in the fight vs those dread, then i will go carrier.
Like you said, its an Idea that could be polished
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-02-15 21:16
This game is balanced on numbers of players which we dont have. Actualy the current system would work perfectly fine if we could have 500 active players. Imagine to fly a fleet of 50 destroyers ? No dread , no station could stand it . Infact, i think 50 claws would kick arse of 50 eads in a short time. Fast clock timing,huge ecm field , hit and run same spot , u could kill each ead in question of seconds.
In this version balance lays into numbers, not into ships.
So we got 2 options .. comercialize the game and get more player or throw ideas out and have nothing about it .
And since 9 of 10 ideas are bad for dev and only 2% of good ideas are considered and 1% of those ideas realized, so throwing ideas out is a kind of annoying.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-02-15 21:45
Quote:
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On 2010-02-15 21:16, Pakhos wrote:
This game is balanced on numbers of players which we dont have. Actualy the current system would work perfectly fine if we could have 500 active players. Imagine to fly a fleet of 50 destroyers ? No dread , no station could stand it . Infact, i think 50 claws would kick arse of 50 eads in a short time. Fast clock timing,huge ecm field , hit and run same spot , u could kill each ead in question of seconds.
In this version balance lays into numbers, not into ships.
So we got 2 options .. comercialize the game and get more player or throw ideas out and have nothing about it .
And since 9 of 10 ideas are bad for dev and only 2% of good ideas are considered and 1% of those ideas realized, so throwing ideas out is a kind of annoying.
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Yea number is needed for balance, but id rather think of adding depth and strategy rather then balance, because no matter how much we gona talk/rant/flame about it, were always back at square 1 with balance
option 1, Why is'nt it already happening if numbers is the biggest problem? or maybe it is happening, but just end up beign a failure due to balance issue we can rant for years about, or something else
You think throwing ideas is annoying, thats more of an opinion of yours, fine, its kool , its your opinion, Maybe not everyone share that opinion, maybe some people would simply like to see this game grow in every aspect, like strategy and tactics, i tought it would make a change of the jump in close smash space bar and get out, at Least Kluth got some strategy going,
btw what happen when those 500 active soldier get to reach dreads? omg
My point being, i am not talking Balance player wise, but im just looking to add some strategy and depth for all other faction.
Then again, you haven't said anything about my idea beign bad so, i beleive its still worth a try and see what other can think to polish it up instead to rant
as for the 9 out of 10 are bad for dev and etc, i wont start on that
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-02-16 01:05
the anti dread fighters you are talking about will in fact be coming. When well two weeks is all I hear which means in the next 10 years lol. A new fighter option for all sides basically. Its a fighter with a torp instead of guns, which is perfect for taking down big ships. Even fighters now beat dreads, even ICC can't stand vary long to UGTO cowardice with fighter spamming. In fact UGTO has the best fighters around, Kluth might but we will never know since they never use there stations.
Tactically yes, fighters are the counter to dreads and stations. Destroyers can be but one full alpha from a dread can pretty much ruin a dessys day and it would take about 4 or 5 to take down a dread with any amount of speed. 1 dessy vs a dread yes the dessy will win but not before the dread gets bored and leaves for better targets. ICC is the one faction that has a carrier before dreads, the carrier cruiser. However the ship lacks any amount of firepower, 4 fighters doesn't cut it when it comes to point defense. If that ship had 5 or 6 fighters THEN it would make a difference. The ship is layed out like how a carrier would be, with a few guns for minor defense and fighters as its main force, but 4 as i said just doesn't make a dent in the big picture. Give it 6 fighters thats the number the command carrier has and it really dose make a big difference in just adding 2. This wouldn't make the command carrier obsolete as it can build and is more of a back line ship then a front line. I see many noobs use the CC because it has fighters, just the sad part is it doesn't really help much at all. As it has been said before, there are many ICC cruisers that aren't all that useful combat wise. The ones that are good are the Heavy Cruiser, Missile Cruiser, Border Cruiser (for PD) and if the Carrier Cruiser got a nice overhaul it would be on that list.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-02-16 03:41
Quote:
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On 2010-02-15 21:16, Pakhos wrote:
This game is balanced on numbers of players which we dont have. Actualy the current system would work perfectly fine if we could have 500 active players. Imagine to fly a fleet of 50 destroyers ? No dread , no station could stand it . Infact, i think 50 claws would kick arse of 50 eads in a short time. Fast clock timing,huge ecm field , hit and run same spot , u could kill each ead in question of seconds.
In this version balance lays into numbers, not into ships.
So we got 2 options .. comercialize the game and get more player or throw ideas out and have nothing about it .
And since 9 of 10 ideas are bad for dev and only 2% of good ideas are considered and 1% of those ideas realized, so throwing ideas out is a kind of annoying.
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Didn't the game sorta go commercial after Beta?
Anyway, it would also be good to have some kinda backup plan just if the player base doesn't go up.
The scenario servers are fun 'cos of the large number of small AI ships around. U can have them for target practice, or at times they'll bother you by attacking you.
Perhaps that's what the MV needs. More player faction AI Frigs, dess and to a lesser extent, cruisers.
But it'd be nice if as a higher ranked player, you could "own" a few of them and give some commands.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-02-16 03:43 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-02-16 05:16
Quote:
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On 2010-02-16 01:05, Fast Starcommander*CO* wrote:
the anti dread fighters you are talking about will in fact be coming. When well two weeks is all I hear which means in the next 10 years lol. A new fighter option for all sides basically. Its a fighter with a torp instead of guns, which is perfect for taking down big ships. Even fighters now beat dreads, even ICC can't stand vary long to UGTO cowardice with fighter spamming. In fact UGTO has the best fighters around, Kluth might but we will never know since they never use there stations.
Tactically yes, fighters are the counter to dreads and stations. Destroyers can be but one full alpha from a dread can pretty much ruin a dessys day and it would take about 4 or 5 to take down a dread with any amount of speed. 1 dessy vs a dread yes the dessy will win but not before the dread gets bored and leaves for better targets. ICC is the one faction that has a carrier before dreads, the carrier cruiser. However the ship lacks any amount of firepower, 4 fighters doesn't cut it when it comes to point defense. If that ship had 5 or 6 fighters THEN it would make a difference. The ship is layed out like how a carrier would be, with a few guns for minor defense and fighters as its main force, but 4 as i said just doesn't make a dent in the big picture. Give it 6 fighters thats the number the command carrier has and it really dose make a big difference in just adding 2. This wouldn't make the command carrier obsolete as it can build and is more of a back line ship then a front line. I see many noobs use the CC because it has fighters, just the sad part is it doesn't really help much at all. As it has been said before, there are many ICC cruisers that aren't all that useful combat wise. The ones that are good are the Heavy Cruiser, Missile Cruiser, Border Cruiser (for PD) and if the Carrier Cruiser got a nice overhaul it would be on that list.
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That, i never knew about it, im glad to hear it, expect the 10 year waiting part lol
id love to see the cruier carrier with 6 fighter bay rather then 4. Let see UGTO have the argi carrier and a Carrier Dread, ICC got the Command Carrier. Id love to see a design of a full carrier for ICC really
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