| Author |
Metaverse/Scenario fix |
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
|  Posted: 2009-12-21 16:14
I can't seem to find my old post on this and others have heard this idea so just gonna post it.
Metaverse/Scenario Hybrid:
Have the metaverse with scenario like objectives. Have planets as the flag objectives but also have 4-10 systems to fight over. So this battle takes place sector by sector instead of system by system. After 6-24hrs the map would end and the side that holds the most systems wins. 6hrs for a sector with only 4-5 systems 12 hrs for one with 6-7 and 24hrs for one with 8-10 systems. This gives everyone lots of time to cap and build and bomb. Also being the main metaverse garages would transferred over from one to the other. This being a ongoing war I would think it should do that. Winners would gain a bonus 500 pres on top of the 10 pres they would gain for each flag planet, losers would gain just the 10 pres for there flags. When the sectors reach a home sector for one side they obviously start with the map controlling there home system but nothing else (all other maps would be the same way everything's neutral, giving a full toss up on all planets). If that side loses the sector they are not out of the running just yet. It would continue on with the winning side, say ICC wins the Sol sector, it would continue to the next sector thats closest to the Kluth systems and continue on there. While this is going on the defeated side (UGTO in this example) would still be there trying to redeem themselves. If they win 1 sector it will move back to the Sol sector again as UGTO is trying to retake there home. If one side manages to take both home sectors the war is over. The winning side would gain a bonus 5k pres for winning the war. All players of that side (fleets would work best to see who plays the winning side) gain this bonus weather or not they played or not that day. After all is said and done the war restarts and were all back to square 1 (garages stay).
I figure with the time it would take to complete even just 1 sector that this should take at least 3 weeks to "win". A month or more would be best. New systems would have to be made to accommodate for this. So the war is a long and grueling one also having such size would ensure you rarely play the same sector twice. The contents of each system should have at least 1 arid or Tarren planet. For the purposes of spawning stations there should be a minimum of 3 tarrens total over all systems.
If any one side gets run off the map whether by lack of players or other means (like the defeated side) there should be an Arid planet thats in deep space. This planet is a long jump away from one of the systems. This planet would also have there gate orbiting it. It is an uncappable unblockaidable planet and is the starting point for each side. So each side can spawn at least dreads to be able to form a bombing fleet to be able to recap the nearest system. Also planet would be rich with all types of resources (dark matter, cryo, ect) for when those types of resources come back in the next 80 years. The planet in essence is there fallback point or forward base of operations and first SY.
Doing this would bring together everyone who likes to do each part of DS. This would bring the people who like to build together with the people who live for combat and care for nothing else (there are other parts to this game you noobs). Fleets would play a major role in this to keep tabs on who is on whos team. People who are unfleeted would need to have either the Independent flag idea I had from a previous post or be on when the map ends to gain the bonus pres (for those of you who hate fleets, too bad suck it up).
Current issues:
Senario:
This server needs some major fixing and I know you devs are working on it. The issue that stand on that server is the auto crash. It can't be rocket science to make all the end maps point back to the starting one so the server doesn't crash. One thing I have been seeing you work on with beta is the maps themselves. This is good vary good to have all the planets fixed once and for all. Also would like to see Wolf system and another one come back as they are auto skipped by the server somehow. Would also like to see the CD system in there as that's the only home system that's not played.
Metaverse:
What can I say? Its right now Kluth dominated and as such its not resetting. Also people are quite sick of the small size of the servers as well. Bigger they are the more breathing space there is for everyone. Smaller isn't always better and it doesn't breed combat more (the sooner you all get that out of you thick skulls the sooner this game can get back on track). Attacking planets makes combat as the defenders have to respond and attack those who are attacking. Having a small server give no one any breathing room and you get whats happening now in Sag and other servers. Since with proper ECM bombing you can take a system in under 1 hr having this small size makes it easy to control the whole place easy. Now if every planet was clustered like how Proc 3 is in scenario then it would be harder to bomb and the defenders would have a good place to stand. Everyone's gonna yell "PLANET HUGGERS!" but guess what. This game is made that way, you attack a planet obviously there gonna sit at it and defend DUH!. Combat happens a lot around 1k-3k gu away from the planet. At most the planet is going to fire missiles at you, whoop de do. There are ships called picket and escort destroyers made to screen fighters and missiles. If the person who was flying those gained like 1 pres for each fighter killed and .3 pres for each missile players would want to fly them more.
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If we can get those current fixes done and set in that would be great. The game would be more enjoyable to play. While you devs get working on the metaverse/scenario hybrid, the game would be more bearable at least.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2009-12-21 16:52
Quote:
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On 2009-12-21 16:14, Fatal Starlight Starbright -TNCO- wrote:
Have the metaverse with scenario like objectives. Have planets as the flag objectives but also have 4-10 systems to fight over. So this battle takes place sector by sector instead of system by system. ... |
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toyed with that in beta a bit, didnt work out so hot. that just turns the mv in a multi-system scenario server and sorting out the rotation issue when someone caps out an entire constellation is another monkey wrench in the works.
tl;dr it didnt really fix the problem, which is why draf's playing with ojective scripts
Quote:
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Senario:
This server needs some major fixing and I know you devs are working on it. The issue that stand on that server is the auto crash. It can't be rocket science to make all the end maps point back to the starting one so the server doesn't crash. One thing I have been seeing you work on with beta is the maps themselves. This is good vary good to have all the planets fixed once and for all. Also would like to see Wolf system and another one come back as they are auto skipped by the server somehow. Would also like to see the CD system in there as that's the only home system that's not played.
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close, but the issue isnt quite as simple as the rotation gets to the last map, cant find the next one and then an heroes. aint saying its a super complex thing that'll take 2 Weeks and a half to fix, just saying its not quite that easy either (since plot holes like that can, are and were checked for before putting up the rotation).
speaking of, there was an opportunity to have input on the included maps (CD shows up twice by the way). fattirob's got a real good example of how its done on page 2. he just needs to get off his duff and finish up the flavor text..
further, since the new wip scenario's largely human-centric, there's plenty of room for a predominatly kluth series to be added in, so who's to say*, wolf may yet show up.
* Galaxay Commander Doran, that's who.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2009-12-21 20:14
If CD shows up then why can't we play it? When UGTO goes on the offensive and wins the BD system it ends. Same with when Kluth win too, it crashes. I would love to make some maps for all this but the editor is well, non existent for public use. I am a mapper, love making maps for games. Made ones for CS:S, RA2, and SOASE (Sins of a solar empire) to name a few.
So the system can't keep track of more then X number of objectives?
For like current implementation of the hybrid it would be only 3-4 sectors to start to get the kinks worked out. If you look at the current MV its quite boring and stagnate which is why scenario is so popular right now. Creating the MV into a gigantic scenario server would mesh everyone together. The ones who like the MV will still have there massive systems to work on and with a long rotation time they would have time to work on it. Scenario people would be brought in for the objective based system. Also this would bring in the [END] that people like for scenario. That there is a clear win/loss in the end of the war, MV has no end it only "ends" when someone takes over everything.
If objectives are coming for MV then they better get here soon. DS is losing a lot of players due to the stagnate nature of MV and the buggyness of SV. Wouldn't mind you guys testing balancing issues on live, BUT you would need to be updating on a consistent schedule. Like once a week to every two weeks kind of schedule. Not once every blue moon and when we feel like it we will update. Major things should be in beta but balancing things should be on live. You would get some major feed back and fast after every update on issues here or there. The other idea would be to give pres in beta, say at a 1/2 rate then normal. You would see a lot more people in there then it being empty.
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Starlight Starbright -TNCO- on 2009-12-21 20:16 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-21 20:48
An MV sized scenario?
I like the idea of objectives. I don't think having flag planets in the mv is the answer tho.
Honestly, if we have the MV as just one big scenario, then why have both?
Some people here like scenario.
Some like the mv, and really do not care about the scenarios at all.
At the moment they have a choice. In fact everyone does.
Ok. So the mv is kluth owned. A week ago it was ICC owned. It fluctuates. It isnt the same as the scenarios.
I think the idea of merging these two VERY different styles of play into one framework is a huge .483 kind of mistake.
There are issues with the maps. I think everyone agrees with that. The answer isnt to screw the whole game to fix some maps or systems.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2009-12-21 23:41
If not the MV, then this idea should be applied to the Scenario then. Need a bonus pres boost in there for sure. Fighting for a longer time and with bigger systems is one a lot of people like.
SV vs MV. One has objectives the other doesn't and that's really what the MV lacks. Objectives are coming to MV that's good to know, just when.....probably the next 30 years. So I am guessing that when they do come we are going to have the said [END] that would be nice to have. So we can have a win/loss in metaverse. Next thing to do is to bring in one big MV again. Leave the home servers as they are and just bring in Proc and RR into the main Sag server to give that breathing room we need.
When did ICC own everything in Sag? Umm....no we haven't yet, we capped all of Kluths stuff, lost it to UGTO and then Kluth came back a few hours later and took it all back. No ICC hasn't healed the entire MV like how K'luth have several times. To own all of the MV that would mean we would have to hold all of Proc, Sag and RR. Proc the Kluth will never give up since there the farming.....of the entire game. RR is a noobs home place and as such cloak dropping is rampant there. No ICC needs to have the numbers for an extended time not "when everyone feels like it" to hold the MV like K'luth.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-22 13:53
It's gone back and forth several times over the last 2 months. I think that UGTO had it all at one time. Not for long, of course. But that should always the case.
If you log in and see a bunch of red, it's just prestige that needs to be made. Most people log out. I think that's actually the WRONG thing to do. Why complain about how there isnt anything to bomb or build in the MV and then just log out when the opportunities to do so have come?
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2009-12-22 14:03
I think that scenarios should stay as scenarios and the MV should be the MV, but the thing I miss most about the game from when I first signed up was the fact that the MV was so large and bombing happened often and was accepted enough that there was always a decimated planet to build a planet yet to be decimated and capped and a battle happening some where. While I realize that lower active player count has the greatest effect on battles the MV is so small that it is the end of someone's world should someone decide to go on a major bombing spree and all the planets are almost always built.
On the subject of scenarios they could in my opinion afford to become a little bigger and last a little longer so you don't spend the majority of the round building planets for it to go to waste in after a little bit.
You should have enough time to build your planet and amass a fleet of ships large to go and bomb the enemies fully built planet and cap it
I am not telling anyone how to do their job just my 10 cents on what I like
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2009-12-22 15:36
think they need to give the players a reason to "conquer" the metaverse first, and then see what can be done about adding other stuff to it.
as it is now only sag is contested, and even then only k'luth want to cap that zone, and by doing so it usually kills off what little action there is.
we need a reason to fight harder for the planets we own and a better reason to capture them then there is now.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-23 03:26
Well, lets see.....
We have TRIED to take the focus to other servers. Few have joined.
We have tried to allow people to have at least a few planets in order to spawn combat, even if the rest of their planets are taken. People just log out.
Unless the bombs are taken out, there is no way to tell somebody "dont cap their last planet". Well, you CAN tell them, but you cant enforce it.
Also, if you give us an incentive to cap the MV, it will be capped constantly. People hate the mv being capped now. What will giving an incentive do to change that? I can already see how this goes:
Monday: Kluth caps MV. Then logs out.
Tuesday: UGTO recaps mv, then logs out.
Wed. : ICC cap MV and then log out.
See, the problem is, there would be no incentive to defend the holdings. So cap it, get the reward, then log out, wait for it to be capped by another faction so u can then recap it yourself for another reward.
Sorry, I have been a gamer far too long to not see this played out ahead of time.
The problem is, people log in, see alot of red, then log out.
Kluth logs in, sees a lot of red, and then gets to work getting their prestige.
Every red planet is bomb/cap points and potential build points. Defenders are potential combat/kill/cap points. The game is designed around WARRING for your territory. Not playing nice for it.
I still think it's taking a better path to not cap the whole server and I dont. But there is no rule against anyone doing it, and in fact the game will always trend to that when people do not defend.
/end lecture.
In case u missed the point, the incentive for capping the MV is prestige. The incentive for defending it is prestige. Give me anything more than that, and I'll be the one getting the rewards, not you.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2009-12-23 03:55 ]
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2009-12-23 04:53
ICC sees a bunch of red, trys to recap and gets raped by some cloaked defender. ICC logs.
Thats how it goes right now. I can solo bomb a planet maybe 2 before someone or a few Kluth show up in krills and pwn my station or bomber dread. Its just no fun to attack Kluth planets unless you have a gigantic number of players to do it with. To deter any Kluth defenders from showing there ugly faces. If the MV was its old one big server again, it would be different. With so many planets to defend ICC could take a system with 1 or 2 people before Kluth could move to defend it. Thats how it was in the old days when MIRV cloud bombing could allow you to take some planets before any defenders showed up. Now its so small that you take 1 planet and you are getting jumped by 3 or 4 ships in a matter of seconds and you are alone with no one to help you and you die. No thanks not gonna be some pres cow for some over zealous Krill who prolly farmed his way there.
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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2009-12-23 12:50
Quote:
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On 2009-12-23 04:53, Fatal Starlight Starbright -TNCO- wrote:
No thanks not gonna be some pres cow for some over zealous Krill who prolly farmed his way there.
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althouh I agree with the majority of your post, lets leave the unfounded stupidness out of it. that comment just shows you're being a sore loser, and is as big a contrubuting factor to the problems with this game as anything else.
thanks
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Ulven Skyblade
Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: March 04, 2007
Posts: 230
From: Timbo400
| Posted: 2009-12-23 13:06
i realy realy like this idea.
but i see a litle flaw. if a new player would go into the mv(flag planet based) and there was no one there he could capture the flag planets all by himself.
there should also be a kind of minimum time. to prefent this
you should also consider a faction lock for the duration of the map. this would prevent faction hopping and keep the game more fun for most.
sorry for the bad gramar
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-24 05:02
Quote:
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On 2009-12-23 04:53, Fatal Starlight Starbright wrote:
ICC sees a bunch of red, trys to recap and gets raped by some cloaked defender. ICC logs.
Thats how it goes right now. I can solo bomb a planet maybe 2 before someone or a few Kluth show up in krills and pwn my station or bomber dread. Its just no fun to attack Kluth planets unless you have a gigantic number of players to do it with. To deter any Kluth defenders from showing there ugly faces.
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Yeah. That's the way it is SUPPOSED to work. Kluth arent capping the planets solo. They have a few players when they do it. Is this an impossible concept to grasp?
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If the MV was its old one big server again, it would be different. With so many planets to defend ICC could take a system with 1 or 2 people before Kluth could move to defend it. Thats how it was in the old days when MIRV cloud bombing could allow you to take some planets before any defenders showed up. Now its so small that you take 1 planet and you are getting jumped by 3 or 4 ships in a matter of seconds and you are alone with no one to help you and you die.
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This seems to me to translate thusly: I cant bomb solo, and it's not fair. I dont want to FIGHT to take a planet, I want it given to me. The smaller MV makes this impossible, therefore the MV must be bigger to accomodate my nuetered style of play.
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No thanks not gonna be some pres cow for some over zealous Krill who prolly farmed his way there.
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That's so funny on SO many levels.
Hypocrit.
I know you farmed your ass off, I was there for a lot of it. So stop acting like you are some "holier than thou" player. This is the kind of crap that makes you look like a petty little fool.
Also, I do believe when the Krill came out, I was one of only 2 K'Luth that could actually fly the thing due to the ship caps required. Since then the game has drastically changed. The AI makes the game progress faster for players, as opposed to in the old days of when nobody is on, you sit on your thumbs waiting for an enemy so you could make pres. There isn't a player here who hasnt earned positive prestige from killing AI, even if you dont "farm" them. There are VERY few players able to fly the top dreads who DIDNT farm to get the ability to do so. There are fewer still who are getting those ship caps on players, THE WAY I EARNED MY KRILL.
Guess what. That's the way the game works now. Just like when YOU did it.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2009-12-24 05:53
Quote:
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On 2009-12-24 05:02, Azreal wrote:
Yeah. That's the way it is SUPPOSED to work. Kluth aren't capping the planets solo. They have a few players when they do it. Is this an impossible concept to grasp?
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Well even when were on the attack and you've got one player on, that one player has a nice way of stopping us doing anything.
When we take a planet, just before hand someone shuts off all the buildings killing it.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2009-12-24 05:54 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-24 06:09
purhaps it's a tactic you should borrow?
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