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Can we get official ruling on using ships between maps in scenario? |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2009-12-09 16:26
No rule has ever been posted, and people are confused as to what is allowed and what isn't, including me.
I was originally told you are not allowed to use maps from the previous map, and to scrap your garage until the problem was fixed. Then I was told it's OK to use certain ships from last map, like a transport ready to go with 10 heavy infantry.
Personally, I don't like the idea of being allowed to use pre-loaded transports or engineers, but I do like the idea of being able to use modded ships or enhanced ships after a sy is built, has the proper tech and the proper resources.
So what are the official rules? No ships from previous map at all, or only ships that don't require a sy can be carried over, or only ships that aren't preloaded with infantry (includes getting resources from garage for engineers), or only destroyers and above so long as sy requirements are met?
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-12-09 16:33
AFAIK, you are *not* allowed to use *any* ships between scenarios
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
| Posted: 2009-12-09 18:31
It is not allowed, although there is not a great deal we can do to effectively police the situation as it currently stands.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-12-09 18:33
Is that official though? That's what I was told too, but apparently some people are being told otherwise, like only ships that require a shipyard cannot be used, but smaller ships are fine to carry over.
I think it would probably depend on whether garages and storage are meant to be carried over in scenario? If they're meant to be wiped clean every map then yeah no ships should be allowed to carry over at all.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-09 18:40
Quote:
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On 2009-12-09 18:31, Mr Black wrote:
It is not allowed, although there is not a great deal we can do to effectively police the situation as it currently stands.
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Yeah, that would require moderators to play the game from time to time.
Not much you can do about policing that?
Really?
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Kestalkayden
Marshal
Joined: June 04, 2005
Posts: 85
| Posted: 2009-12-09 19:20
The ships are stored how? wouldnt it be as easy as flushing that stored data at the end of every scenario during the winning sequence? (keeping in mind that the cargo of non-scenario stays intact)
It shouldnt be that difficult. If it 'is' that difficult, then it was set up wrong from the beginning.
[ This Message was edited by: Kefka Palazzo on 2009-12-09 19:21 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2009-12-09 20:34
No, you may not immediately pull out higher level ships from the scenario before until you can actually aquire them in the current round.
Originally storage was only for the persisten MV. But several players kept begging for it on scenario and now we see the mess it has made. We are discussing getting ride of scenario storage again as it really is counter to the point of the scenerio's being mini-games and MV persistent.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-12-09 22:04
That's two different answers  Not allowed, and not allowed to use higher level ships before shipyards.
That's why we need an official ruling. What is allowed to be carried over from the previous map and what isn't. Is it allowed to bring a transport full of heavy inf to the next map? Is it allowed to bring 10k resources to the next map? Those are more important rulings, since almost everyone knows you aren't allowed to use big ships before shipyards.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-12-09 22:07 ]
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
| Posted: 2009-12-09 22:28
By order of seniority, Tael's decision is the one to follow, given that he is the Head Admin.
FYI: If a member of the Administration team posts regarding a topic using their Admin account, that post is the official line and should be adhered to thereafter, unless otherwise adjudicated by either the Head Admin or in a review by the Administration team.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-12-09 23:39
So we can assume that using a transport with 10 heavy infantry from last map is OK? That's what Tael seems to have said.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2009-12-10 00:04
A continuing garage makes perfect sense in the fact that the winning/losing side would be moving on to the next system WITH all of there ships. Now for practical sense that makes for a vary poor game. The thing I have been abiding to since its been under discussion is to just use ships that can normally be used from a gate. So haveing a preloaded 10 man inf tranny is perfectly fine and don't whine about it if you didn't think to load up a heavy and light tranny with inf for the next map. Since only a few people have done it besides myself (when I think to do it since even I don't remember to do it) you get these big INF battles on the planets. One time in Sirius there was a huge inf stack on Sag hothha just battling it out, was awesome to just watch.
If I have a modded dread or station sitting in my garage from the last map I will not pull it out until we have a SY up. Since that's the way I see it should be done. Just having the SY requirement for ships in your garage. Not resources mind you cuz then whats the use of having them at all? The only issue I would see of this would be having a dread on the 61 cyg map or Luyten where there are only ice/barren planets on them (which needs fixed btw with these resource limits in place).
So there's my 2 bits on the subject.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-10 03:46
Ya'll know damn well that by taking out a ship from a previous map, it is an exploit. By taking items into a new map it is an exploit. By pulling ships that do not use resources of the map and planets you are on is defeating the resource system put in place for balance purposes.
Hollow arguements are what I see saying otherwise.
It's called "playing the system instead of the game" and it IS a declared exploit.
Furthermore, there is no need to cut new ground or give a new ruling at all. This isn't some new issue. This was prevalent in the old scenarios before they were taken down. I was a mod then and that was already declared as exploitative then. I know because I had to give a few spankings over that before.
So no new ruling is even needed.
Common sense? Maybe try some of that?
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2009-12-10 04:46
A point I didn't make clear enough...
Myself, the other admins, and the Dev's, are discussing removing the storage transfer between scenario servers to fix this issue. Including it into scenario just doesn't work.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-12-10 07:11
Nothing wrong with ships carrying over. This isnt bad.
Its that theres nothing restricting it.
Make taking ships out of a garage require:
1. Technology so that it has to actually get built up to that point first.
2. Shipyard for the exact same reason. If the ship requires it anyways.
3. Resources so they can't be spammed out.
These rules should be applied everywhere, including the MV. The benefits are limitless.
In scenarios its especially true. Taking a dreadnaught out would only be possible on some maps due to resource limits on planets. Ships couldnt be spammed because of limited resource production. Your team would have to choose wisely between lots of small ships or fewer big ships.
You dont always have to remove a feature to fix part of the game, sometimes you can just improve upon it, even if it does take more work.
-Ent
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-10 08:31
Riiiight.
So, on maps that were meant to be somewhere around cruiser ship capped due to barrens, it's ok to defeat that by pulling your dreadnaught from a previous map. And hey, so what if nobody on the other side was in the previous map to have a stashed dread themselves. Tough luck for them, right?
And hell. Why not stuff 7 trannys worth of troops and resources to carry over as well.
Nothing wrong there.
It's so funny to see that this is acceptable, when AI is looked at as exploitative by some of the same people.
Ya'll need new logic chips. Yours are burned out with too much hops & malt.
Sometimes you need to just fix aspects of the game, as opposed to declaring them "working as intended", which, if I am reading Tael right, seems to be the angle of approach on this one.
And a good one it is.
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