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Suggested refit of Escort Destroyers |
Phellan
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 220
From: Red Light District
|  Posted: 2009-12-04 09:56
So this is just a suggestion, bear with me and let me know if your own experiances differ or if there is an overriding reason not to do this.
I recently used the Escort destroyer in its intended role of point defense for the first time...well, ever. Previously I had used it as a gunship of terror like everyone else, but seeing its been refitted, I instead loaded it with pulse beams and started winding my way through the dozens of missiles flying at my faction's capitol ships behind me. This worked ok, but I noticed several areas where the ship is lacking, and I think my suggestion would leave it fairly balanced.
In some combination, remove:
Beacons; What good are they except against luth where point defense is not really needed as much.*edit* Use scouts for beacons you noobs!
scanner/ecm; one of these can stay obviously but it would be worth removing one to allow other things. At one point I had both on trying to better track missiles and it didn't help in the least except to paint me with more missiles.
Add:
pulse shield; even the combat dessie has one, why wouldn't a dedicated point defense ship have one too?
auxillary shield/power generator; to keep up with missiles and continuously fire the beams, I really had to use the auxillary power generator, but was still taking alot of hits so an extra shield generater would have helped. The old ED had two such slots, so theres no reason not to have them now that it isn't unbalanced in all the other ways.
One other complaint I have is that the auto point defense doesn't make very good use of all those beams. I had at least five pulse beams pointing forward and only a few of them were firing at any given time. Even sitting still with the missiles coming right at me, only 1/3 of the missiles were being taken out. Not because the beams were recharging, I wasn't in range, or was out of energy, they just weren't firing. Even Battleships forever has a better point defense system so its alittle annoying. In this way the pulse shield would have been helpful.
I think these changes would leave the ship not only balanced, but useful. Any comments? If I'm totally off on something tell me, these were just my experieances.
[ This Message was edited by: Phellan on 2009-12-04 11:22 ]
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-12-04 10:02
inb4 "omg don't remove beacons!11!!1!"
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2009-12-04 10:21
Yeah, dunno why you're equating removing the beacon with putting more stuff on the ship. I'd have to imagine they both can stay. The pulse shield is a good idea, though.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2009-12-04 10:23
Quote:
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On 2009-12-04 09:56, Phellan wrote:
Add:
pulse shield; even the combat dessie has one, why wouldn't a dedicated point defense ship have one too?
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that's acutally a good idea.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2009-12-04 13:36
I kinda like the beacon on the ED, however I agree with adding a pulse shield, and an APU...
Tho PD was working pretty good when I tried it... might have to test it for real.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-04 14:29
Quote:
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On 2009-12-04 09:56, Phellan wrote:
In some combination, remove:
Beacons; What good are they except against luth where point defense is not really needed as much.*edit* Use scouts for beacons you noobs!
scanner/ecm; one of these can stay obviously but it would be worth removing one to allow other things. At one point I had both on trying to better track missiles and it didn't help in the least except to paint me with more missiles.
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I disagree with the beacon part. We need more ships WITH beacons, not less, for one. For two, because the escort dessie is an escort ship, it SHOULD have a decent EW package, and for sure should include beacons and several ECCM slots. They should be used to escort the fringes of a fleet, pinging, beaconing, and PDing missles and fighters. They need those items to do the job they were designed to do. The Border Cruiser is just a bigger version of the Escort Destroyer - or at least it should be.
Quote:
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Add:
pulse shield; even the combat dessie has one, why wouldn't a dedicated point defense ship have one too?
auxillary shield/power generator; to keep up with missiles and continuously fire the beams, I really had to use the auxillary power generator, but was still taking alot of hits so an extra shield generater would have helped. The old ED had two such slots, so theres no reason not to have them now that it isn't unbalanced in all the other ways.
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I could agree with the Pulse Shield for sure. Power gen? I dunno. Do other human destroyers get them? K'Luth doesn't get a power gen on ANY of it's dessies, so unless its on other human ships of that class, I would have to disagree at the moment. As an escort ship, it is designed to escort bigger ships than itself, with the possible exception of a transport. I would think if used properly, it would be traveling at a speed sufficient to allow decent power retention, depending on what type of EW package it would get.
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One other complaint I have is that the auto point defense doesn't make very good use of all those beams. I had at least five pulse beams pointing forward and only a few of them were firing at any given time. Even sitting still with the missiles coming right at me, only 1/3 of the missiles were being taken out. Not because the beams were recharging, I wasn't in range, or was out of energy, they just weren't firing. Even Battleships forever has a better point defense system so its alittle annoying. In this way the pulse shield would have been helpful.
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Sounds like desynch to me.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-12-04 15:56
well naturally Az, if luth dessies had generators, we would have to take away all those nice and shiny guns and beams...
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-12-04 16:07
Some things are said, but i still noticed one.
Quote:
| On 2009-12-04 09:56, Phellan wrote:
scanner/ecm; one of these can stay obviously but it would be worth removing one to allow other things. At one point I had both on trying to better track missiles and it didn't help in the least except to paint me with more missiles.
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Scanner increases sensor range, it can be handy if you are under siege from missiles. (of course if they are not hidden by ecm)
ECM on a PD boat? bad, bad! replace by ECCM.
ECCM increases signature of everything around it, including missiles. and you don't want stealth missiles passing you unable to PD them, don't we?
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Viskel the Muffin Muncher
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2009
Posts: 38
From: Your Fridge
| Posted: 2009-12-04 16:54
The issue of his beams not firing wasn't desync. It has happened to me on the three occasions I've used the ED. It fires a single laser every one second.. So one second it fires on, and doesn't fire a 2nd one until the next second. Even if the missiles are in range and the lasers are charged. And when you've got 6 missiles flying at you, you've got about 2-3 seconds to take them all out before they either hit you or are passed you heading towards their target. And an ED that can't take out more than 3 missiles at a time is a pretty useless ED..
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2009-12-04 17:48
runs out of energy fast very fast atm ...
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2009-12-04 19:23
Great feedback so far.
The Pulse Wave is obvious upon consideration, although it will require the Escort Destroyer losing three beams to accommodate. This is actually a good thing, given that the ED is a little too effective at close combat as it currently stands, and considering the limitations of PD in actually intercepting missiles.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-12-04 22:38
giving up only three beams is well worth it to get a pulse shield..
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-12-04 22:42
get rid of all pulse beam for pulse waves.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-12-05 06:40
Quote:
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On 2009-12-04 15:56, Sensitivity wrote:
well naturally Az, if luth dessies had generators, we would have to take away all those nice and shiny guns and beams...
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Quote:
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On 2009-12-04 14:29, Azreal wrote:
Do other human destroyers get them? K'Luth doesn't get a power gen on ANY of it's dessies, so
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not what I said. It was a serious question/point. I'm asking how it stacks up with other ships of equal class, generatorwise. It shouldn't be so powerful it can run it's shields in combat, flying along with eccm and PD on, alphaing a few times, and pulsing like a star without a lot of power drain. Otherwise, welcome to the new flavor of the month OP ICC dessie....
Dropping the pulse beams for pulse shield, sure. But dont drop the other pulse beams for CLs, or same reult.
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Phellan
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 27, 2007
Posts: 220
From: Red Light District
| Posted: 2009-12-05 11:31
Quote:
| On 2009-12-04 19:23, DrafElf wrote:
Great feedback so far.
The Pulse Wave is obvious upon consideration, although it will require the Escort Destroyer losing three beams to accommodate. This is actually a good thing, given that the ED is a little too effective at close combat as it currently stands, and considering the limitations of PD in actually intercepting missiles. |
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Sounds fine to me though I'm curious what dictates that particular swap. On further testing, the Ed did very well flying through missile fields picking off one missile on each side, just not multiple missiles on the same arc. I honestly didn't find it very effective in close combat but then I'm not sure what the current state of CLs is, and wouldn't use it for that right now anyway. Is it possible to get rid of the railguns instead, leaving just beams, so its a dedicated defense ship and has to run from combat?
On the other hand, I would gladly trade out the pulse shield on the combat dessie for a generator because it doesn't help that much for that long, but in firing and dodging at the same time, I run out of energy very quickly. Guess thats either an issue of balance or I'm not flying it right.
Back on the ED, I hadn't considered the EW side of things, since I figured that was the corvette's job, but no I wasn't runining ecm while trying to take out missiles. Thanks for the discussion and consideration of my idea.
[ This Message was edited by: Phellan on 2009-12-05 11:32 ]
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