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Dark Space, my 2 cents. |
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
|  Posted: 2009-11-11 19:24
Ok in response to lobby chat hear is what I currently see with the issue in Dread Space....I mean Dark Space. This is not a whine about Kluth post. I bring the issues seen and present possible ways to fix it.
Topic 1: Cloak Dropping
This is severely a game killer. When ICC or UGTO take a system and then log for the night with perfectly build systems, ones that would make cloak bombing near impossible. They return to find there planets taken but left alone in what they just built. How did this occur? Well cloak dropping of course. When Kluth can take a few fully loaded trannys, jump to the planet, cloak when the dico kicks in, and then just fly srtight at it. When they get close they decloak and zero point drop the planet. Regardless of the amount of ECCM on the planet they will always make it unless the entire planets DEF is made up of ECCM bases. UGTO and ICC can do this BUT if the planet has any amount of good def bases the tranny will die before it gets there. This makes it almost pointless to even get on and play when Kluth just show up after you took a planet and just cloak drop it. Even when you are bombing they will just show up and kill you. This dose tie into the issue of number of players which is the next topic. To fix this cloak dropping problem is to force Kluth transports to decloak when they get within 200 or 500gu of the planet. Allowing the planet def a chance to shoot rather then getting almost no chance at all. Right now it would be good to place this into the RoC as an exploit of the cloaking device.
Topic 2: Player numbers/ICC issues
This is a big issue right now with ICC and UGTO are near ghost towns because both sides have no way of countering anything the Kluth can throw at them. ICC shields are a joke, even in the beta they will help with the 25% damage reduction but nothing will help when they are down. ICC are supposed to be able to soak up mass amounts of damage from both sides and still keep rolling. In return tho ICC are weak in the offensive firepower with railguns/gauss doing little damage and forcing them to fire volley after volley to bring down armor. UGTO firepower is perfect and there armor right now is even higher then ICC with there shields AND armor together. Giving ICC 2 layers of shields on the bigger hull class ships, Cruisers+ only, would give ICC the defensive aspect that they need. This would make newbies WANT to be ICC and STAY on that side. Everyone says teamwork fixes everything, and yes it dose, but where are all those people we keep hearing about? Right now ICC is LUCKY at BEST to get 12ppl on at once and when it dose happen ICC can take anything on but when we get off.....well that was covered last topic.
For power issues on ICC, make a new IE drive for Cruisers, dreads. Something like how stations have the IE Drive- Station but instead make IE Drive- Cruiser, IE Drive - Dreadnought. Both would have more speed so Cruisers would be able to go 23gu max speed instead of 20, allowing ICC to keep there distance in a long sublight chase, Dreads could go 17gu max speed. Power output should be upped to allow for the extra drain on energy from having the extra set of shields. Doing those would allow ICC ships to be able to take the extra damage that the Cruiser and Dread class ships take, because right now shields are fine on the smaller ships but on the big ones they are weak. Shields do need to have a 2x recharge rate (or higher) when they are "off" allowing the little bit of armor we do have to and out hull take a beating and when we think its the right time (like at 60% or 40% hull) our shields should be back to about 50% on all sides (if they all were drained from rotation). This, coupled with dubble shielding, would allow ICC ships to SURVIVE in combat instead of becoming giant pres farm ships.
Topic 3: K'luth
Right now Kluth are as close to "balanced" as they ever have been. According to the devs that is. The reality is Kluth runs EVERYTHING and ICC nor UGTO cant ever hold a planet, much less bomb one, without Kluth showing up. In combat, a few Kluth ships can make a mess of everything without even trying hard. ECCM pinging works in a small way but its cooldown is just rediculas and on ships that have 1 slot for it, its usless. Why then don't we use sensor ships, well for one we need.....PLAYERS (coverd that already) and even when that dose happen Kluth still can sneak up and kill that sensor friget in one volly. Even when its hideing under a dread or station is still can die from spash damage. How to fix this? Well there a few ideas I have come up with.
1: A new device much like the interdictor but with a short 200gu range (color of field could be blue) energy drain is 2x-3x to that of dico drain. Field causes Kluth ships to decloak but due to the nature of the particle being used there hull and armor regen is increased 4x. Also makes there JD drive invulnerable to dico fields for 10 seconds when they are outside of it. The device is swappable with the Pulse shield (for ICC) or the Flux Wave (of UGTO). The duration of the device (instead of having power drain) would be for 1min with a 6min cool down. When this device is used in teamwork it would make Kluth rethink there strategy. ECCM pinging would be made useless by this device thus disabling the ships (that its on) ECCM and ECM (scanner would still be usefull). It would disable those devices no matter if it was on or off, its the nature of the particle being used.
2: Make Kluth cloak have a cool down (20 seconds) both ways. So when they decloak it would be 20 seconds before they could turn it back on. Also when its on it would be 20 seconds before they could turn it off.
Verdict? Bring Kluth back down to size OR bring ICC and UGTO up to the Kluth's level. Do this and do it now, or there will be not much of a game left when these things happen. I have been through ICC through thick and thin but right now there is nothing left of ICC other then its Fleets and vets.
Topic 4: Metaverse
The current metatverse I hate. The system sizes are good but the number of systems are not. There need to be more systems that separate the 3 sides. Like have Luyten be the center of it all (and for the love of god increase its planet count) with 5 gates going in separate directions. Gate 1 would lead to a 3 or 4 string of systems with the last one having the UGTO transfer gate to there home server. The other 2 would do the same for Kluth and ICC. With the current number of players (and even with more) there would be a clear "front line" to the war. If you wanted combat all you have to do is just attack the next system. This would be much like the old MV but still small. The 3rd and 4th gates lead to systems controlled by Pirates and MI with there gates there too. Those 2 systems should have 5-7 planets in them instead of just 1. Also have a planet that's uncappable so that they never can be kicked out of the game. Also have the Pirates and MI more aggressive, when there "home" system is under attack the attackers are met by 2-4 stations and 10-20 other ships to defend there planet. If this defense fleet is defeated then it will reappear in a hour to try and defend other planets. Also have them bomb and tranny more often then they do now (on both Sag AND Proc/RR). This would make people have to work together (at least kluth could) to take the AI planets, instead of having the AI just lay down and take it. In the Procyon server and RR the AI need to attempt to take ALL of the planets in the servers instead of being limited to just a few. This is apparent in Proc server with the MI not even trying to take planets outside of the 4 that they have, nor trying to take planets in other systems.
I think I covered everything thats been on my mind. Now Discuss!
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2009-11-11 19:42
Quote:
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This is not a whine about Kluth post.
Topic 1: Cloak Dropping
Well cloak dropping of course. When Kluth can take a few fully loaded trannys, jump to the planet, cloak when the dico kicks in, and then just fly srtight at it. When they get close they decloak and zero point drop the planet.
Topic 2: Player numbers/ICC issues
This is a big issue right now with ICC and UGTO are near ghost towns because both sides have no way of countering anything the Kluth can throw at them.
Topic 3: K'luth
Right now Kluth are as close to "balanced" as they ever have been. According to the devs that is. The reality is Kluth runs EVERYTHING and ICC nor UGTO cant ever hold a planet, much less bomb one, without Kluth showing up. In combat, a few Kluth ships can make a mess of everything without even trying hard. ECCM pinging works in a small way but its cooldown is just rediculas and on ships that have 1 slot for it, its usless. Why then don't we use sensor ships, well for one we need.....PLAYERS (coverd that already) and even when that dose happen Kluth still can sneak up and kill that sensor friget in one volly. Even when its hideing under a dread or station is still can die from spash damage. How to fix this? Well there a few ideas I have come up with.
1: A new device much like the interdictor but with a short 200gu range (color of field could be blue) energy drain is 2x-3x to that of dico drain. Field causes Kluth ships to decloak but due to the nature of the particle being used there hull and armor regen is increased 4x. Also makes there JD drive invulnerable to dico fields for 10 seconds when they are outside of it. The device is swappable with the Pulse shield (for ICC) or the Flux Wave (of UGTO). The duration of the device (instead of having power drain) would be for 1min with a 6min cool down. When this device is used in teamwork it would make Kluth rethink there strategy. ECCM pinging would be made useless by this device thus disabling the ships (that its on) ECCM and ECM (scanner would still be usefull). It would disable those devices no matter if it was on or off, its the nature of the particle being used.
2: Make Kluth cloak have a cool down (20 seconds) both ways. So when they decloak it would be 20 seconds before they could turn it back on. Also when its on it would be 20 seconds before they could turn it off.
Verdict? Bring Kluth back down to size
I think I covered everything that's been on my mind. Now Discuss!
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OK i just nerfed out everything else..as this wasn't a whine about luth..meh
YAWN QQ!
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2009-11-11 20:29
Totaly backing Commander here..
ive seen numbers drop 4 fold personaly since ive been here.. why?
becouse when we attack a planet we have to over come every defence it has... players...plats...dicto...offence...defence...and troops.
Kluth just roll up in 3 trannies and a cruiser and cloak drop and go on their marry way.... (Ive seen it with my own eyes) The only way i can stop them is to orbit a planet hoping ill ping em befor its to late.
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Fatal HI NSA PadmaVajra *XO1*
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2009-11-11 20:53
My 2 Cents:
Adapt and Enjoy
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Hellza - Dark Master
Fleet Admiral
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: June 06, 2004
Posts: 498
| Posted: 2009-11-11 21:11
On 2009-11-11 19:24, Fatal Starcommander -TNCO- wrote:
Ok in response to lobby chat hear is what I currently see with the issue in Dread Space....I mean Dark Space. This is not a whine about Kluth post. I bring the issues seen and present possible ways to fix it.]
Topic 1: Cloak Dropping
This is severely a game killer. When ICC or UGTO take a system and then log for the night with perfectly build systems, ones that would make cloak bombing near impossible.
That is along a nurmous stratergies, Each faction have different ways of team work. just got to learn an fight as a team. I remember back in 1.43 Icc used to WH fish, Ugto had the Flux which could distory systems so easy, Icc could fit Torps on their MDs (that was 21 missles) it could take out a battle dread in 4/5 vollys, that is about 5 second match. Hull a luth in one hit.
icc sheilds were very VERY over powered. you could barely strach a scout ship with a alpha.
we kluth were so horribly nerfed, I tried a one on one. a Siphon vs a Battle dread, 150 gus away, facing each other.. i was slaughtered an he had only 70 hull damage.
Topic 2: Player numbers/ICC issues
As you said there, this Game is based around huge muliti player base (or atleast 30 on each team). all these mods currently are for that. not 1-10 on at any given time. OF course these ships will seem "over powered". but just think for a moment. if we had 30 ships on each time. for a instance, if there was 30 Icc, how much ECCM is that?... shizzer loads. it would really give kluth players a run for their money.
so until we have enough player base, we can never archive "Balance"
Topic 3: K'luth
the NUMBER ONE THING FOR FRIGATES IS... Do NOT stay still...A frig have close to superb speed and manaovring skills.
One more thing, a frigate SHOULD die if he is foolish enough to not watch his back when a dread sneaks up to him. the ammount of ECCM a frig can run should take a dread almost 3-5 seconds before being able to fire.
not to mention a frig can actually out run a dread.
Topic 4: Metaverse
cant say i have much to say about the metaverse currently.
[ This Message was edited by: Hellza -Dark Master on 2009-11-11 21:12 ]
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2009-11-12 00:30
look at it this way. Atleast in the future once 1.53 comes out kluth will be back to useless ness. And ICC will become the new overpowered faction. And Ugto doesnt go anywhere.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-11-12 00:31
Quote:
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On 2009-11-11 19:24, Fatal Starcommander -TNCO- wrote:
Topic 1: Cloak Dropping
This is severely a game killer. When ICC or UGTO take a system and then log for the night with perfectly build systems, ones that would make cloak bombing near impossible. They return to find there planets taken but left alone in what they just built. How did this occur? Well cloak dropping of course.
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Not really. Bio bombs leave everything intact too, and that's what happened last night. Don't even need to cloak bomb, just need enough ECM, a supply ship and no human defenders.
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2009-11-12 02:02
Well this is an issue i have raised in previous posts, numbers allow for team work , which allows for variation on ship sizes within said team.
However as someone who is on everyday , even with freeplay , the numbers for ICC and UGTO , barring rare times when we do put together TR + FS or UGTO RSM + GTN fleets , the numbers are 1 or 2 players . this versus krills is insta pop and people please dont insult by saying this isnt the case , look at the MV , DEAD.......why , smart remarks do not hide the fact that something is wrong and new players are going to luth and combine this with the excellent number of vets and regular expereinced players they have means you do need a small team to fight or bomb successfully , ideally for bombing = 4 or 5 people for ICC , 1 Bomber dessie , 2 sensor frigs and a suppy is good , however we dont have even half that number most of the time.
(I know it can be done with 1 bomber dessie and sensor frig or even just 1 bomber frig if no sensor bases are involved etc)
[ This Message was edited by: Code Red *XCO1* on 2009-11-12 02:57 ]
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Frisky Dingo
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2009-11-12 06:35
Yet the scenarios offer a better experience. No matter how ignorant the players get, the map resets every few hours.
Why bother with the MV headache at this point? When Kluth get tired of owning everything in deadspace, then they'll back off or stop logging in themselves for a few days.
But nothing devs do can force players to play a certain way of for a certain team the way the game is now.
So relieve your stress and just hit the scenarios for a few days/weeks.
(sorry, but the map itself is the worst. Why is it that we limit planets to fight over to make them more important? This doesn't even happen that way. A rock is a rock. I can put a sy on a barren, so who cares if there is only 1 terran? We need more clusters, more multiple area clusters that people can fight from. We need more planets because more planets =more to conquer=more room for enemy to respond. we need a well thought out combat area, condusive to good battles. There isn't a single system noy that is really good for 3 way battles.)
(oh, nm, I forgot. Nobody likes fighting anymore. Just capping everything and then sitting on their hands looking at ai.)
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Ulven Skyblade
Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: March 04, 2007
Posts: 230
From: Timbo400
| Posted: 2009-11-12 07:05
the only ship that i find unfair is the krill for the rest luth are not overpowerd. unless you don't know what your doing. then luth are your worst enemy.
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Frisky Dingo
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2009-11-12 07:33
The Krill? Really?
It only has 7 SI that can hit you at any time, (they decreased the SI) and besides that a bunch of rupters. oh, and 2 cannons. Since they increased the energy drain on it, it flies just right. Its no longer OPd at all.
Its not that the Krill is anything special. Its the dread of choice for Wolves, true. But its the fact that they hit you with 3 or 4 at once.
What would be the result of several BDs or EADs hitting you at once?
Same net result.
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2009-11-12 07:57
i don't play MV anymore.
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El Guapo
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 276
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
| Posted: 2009-11-12 08:05
Think someone needs to give Fatal Starcommander -TNCO- his two cents back, for all he is doing is whining...
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2009-11-12 09:33
In response to the OP:
1.) Cloak Dropping - As far as I'm concerned, Kluth being able to cloak drop shouldn't change. I started playing in 2004 and the Kluth were doing this back then. Being able to cloak is what makes the Kluth. Their ships can not stand up to any significant amount of damage.
2.) Player Base - From what I've seen in the MV, at peak times, the ICC outnumber the Kluth. The biggest issue that I've seen from the ICC is the lack of leadership and teamwork. When we, as in Kluth, decide to attack you all fire at whatever decloaks. Often times, you all fire at different targets. That's when the chaos starts, your fellow ICC players get seperated from each other. IMHO, the ICC players need to go back to fundamentals. If you all would stick with each other, focus fire on one target, call targets and communicate with each other, then some fights would go in your favor. If you as a player are a wingman for a fellow player and you leave that players wing, then you deserve to die. When you all don't have that many people on you need to use the fundamentals I described above and choose your battles wisely. PATIENCE is a virtue, this is what sets Kluth apart from the other factions. Having patience and waiting until an opponents numbers thin is not some great evil. I used to do the same thing as ICC back in 2004-2005 when I played as ICC. I would wait until the early morning hours when UGTO didn't have many players on and then solo bomb and cap a few planets. You all just need to adapt and overcome.
3.) Kluth - All I can say to this is that if a frig, supply, engineer, or any other small ship decides to sit still when it is known that Kluth dreads are sneaking around then they deserve to die. For frigs, if a Kluth dread decloaks then you should be able to outrun them before they can even fire on you. For supplys, I mean come on, set up a forward supply base somewhere other than a planet and if any Kluth decloak, SCATTER quickly. Same thing for engineers.
[ This Message was edited by: Supertrooper on 2009-11-12 09:41 ]
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ZeroCool[No Lame No Fame]
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 69
From: Another Plan of Existence
| Posted: 2009-11-12 09:38
What a bounch of whinners
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