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Flux is all Fluxed Up. |
Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
|  Posted: 2009-11-03 20:54
So another round of testing the flux wave, flux beam, and EMP cannon. Recent changes (and some not so recent changes) have rendered the UGTO flux and EMP based weapons from near useless to completly useless. The following details myself and Thugweiser's testing in the MV.
Thugweiser used a modified siphon without AHR (chitnous)
I was utilizing an EAD which has 3 Flux Beams, a Flux wave, and 1 EMP cannon.
After several torp salvos I brought his aft armor to 0% (and yes the armor does go up slightly so during each test another salvo of torps was launched and as soon as they hit the flux based weapon(s) were fired.
At 200gu:
1 Flux Beam - No Damage
2 Flux Beams - No Damage
3 Flux Beams - No Damage
All 3 Beams + Flux Wave + EMP Cannon - 3 Systems were damaged 5%, they were all repaired in about 3 seconds.
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At 75gu
All Flux Based Weapons (No EMP Cannon) - 2 Systems were damaged 10% and repaired in moments.
All Flux + EMP Cannon - 5 Systems damaged, 1 25%, 4 20% About 20 Seconds to repair all (Reminded, this is without AHR)
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We decided at this point to do more damage to the hull to see if hull damage would cause more system damage.
at 150gu Hull at 32%
All Fluxes + EMP - 2 Systems damaged 10%
repeated same conditions
6 Systems damaged 1 by 40% the other 5 by 20%
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I believe that the results speak for themselves, with AHR the siphon may not even feel anything except the last test result, and even then it was negligable. I urge everyone to do similar testing on other vessels and against different factions. We all know that FLUX and EMP only works on un-armored and un-shielded facings but even when used in this manner, and at extremly close range (A range that is highly unlikely to occour in combat with any regularity) They dont work. And for a 50 second cooldown on the flux wave... it should do something other than make pretty sparkles in space.
Flux, it's all fluxed up.
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Thugomatic
Chief Marshal
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 166
From: Missoula Montana
| Posted: 2009-11-03 21:01
On a sidenote too add too this even with just 2percent aft armor flux would do nothing at all, Im not so sure this is how its sposed too work as i thought the worse the armor hp the higher the chance of actually taking on system damage(like elf draining capabilities) but i could be wrong.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-11-03 21:38
Just FYI Fluxwave and EMP cannons have both been boosted in beta, just waiting for the next release... I think Fluxcannon was overlooked but I will forward a message to include it in the boosting.
The reason for this is the new internal damage code, it selects only 1 random device and applies damage to it, the old one multiplied damage and applied it to every single device, It will just take some tweaking to get EMP damage back on track now.
[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-11-03 21:50 ]
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2009-11-03 22:29
Reading this, you kind of didn't do this right.
If you fired just one shot with each, of course it isn't going to do anything with that one shot.
Think of a DoT(Damage over time) from other MMOs, where it starts out with pretty much no damage done, but as it stacks with each second passing (in this case, your attack each time), it'll do a good bit of damage.
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-11-03 23:03
We did various tests. 1 beam at a time, 3 beams at a time, We realized that no damage was done at all or absolutly nothing in thoose situations. If you're talking about DPS, or DPM... the damage that was done with these weapons was repaired in seconds. Seconds, which means that before the next volley had even hit the ship, the damage from the previous volley was already repaired. And in the case of the al-mighty fluxwave, 50 seconds would be the next time it could be fired.
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"Universum est gelu quod atrum , nos es unus verus lux lucis"
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Light404
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 10, 2002
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2009-11-03 23:54
You probably have yet to adapt to the new EMP, and are still thinking of how ridiculously over powered the old flux was. Flux attacks from one ship obviously arent gunna cripple a ship (like they used to with only a couple salvos before the update)
Like most other things, flux damage stacks, I've been in fights with ugto where multiple systems have been knocked out in a less than a minute because geuss what? I was fighting multiple opponents.
Can it maybe use a bit of tweaking? Sure, an EXTREMELY minor increase in damage is probably in order, but its not as bad as you make it seem, cause you were not testing it in a combat situation; where things like other weapons damage, energy drain and impacts from multiple assailants come into play.
Also, you need to clarify what "moments" are. I consider "moments" about 10 seconds, which for the amount of damage your talking about, I would consider normal. And kluth ships repair much faster than human ships, regardless of AHR.
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S_T_A_T_I_C
Admiral
Joined: August 31, 2003
Posts: 45
From: London
| Posted: 2009-11-04 02:59
im sorry but flux is what UGTO is all about. if its not working properly then UGTO are kinda boring... just like luth have cloak and reparing armour. We need the flux
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-11-04 08:40
Lets remind ourselves that this is about EMP/Flux and not anything else. Any more useless replies will be removed.
Thanks for the testing, unfortunately it doesn't simulate battle conditions for the EMP cannons or Flux cannons. Perhaps another test where you just shoot the enemy with both types would help.
What it does show however, is that the Flux wave isn't where we want it to be (compare its cooldown to it's intended effect and it's not balanced).
Flux wave should knock out a handful of systems for a short period of time. The EMP and Flux cannons should reduce system efficiency.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-11-04 10:32
Quote:
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On 2009-11-03 21:38, JBud wrote:
I think Fluxcannon was overlooked but I will forward a message to include it in the boosting.
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can we say the same thing about elf beam?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-11-04 12:18
Yes flux beam, flux wave, emp and ELF are all underpowered.
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2009-11-04 14:07
subsystem targeting still not possible ? 
ofcouse with damage properly applied to the system
[ This Message was edited by: Dwarden on 2009-11-04 14:08 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-11-04 15:19
Quote:
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On 2009-11-04 12:18, MrSparkle wrote:
Yes flux beam, flux wave, emp and ELF are all underpowered.
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Flux beam and wave isnt really big deal fro kluth since kluth has ahr. But poor icc, takes 5 mins to repair system damage if u cant find supply .
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2009-11-04 15:45
Quote:
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On 2009-11-04 15:19, Pakhos wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-11-04 12:18, MrSparkle wrote:
Yes flux beam, flux wave, emp and ELF are all underpowered.
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Flux beam and wave isnt really big deal fro kluth since kluth has ahr. But poor icc, takes 5 mins to repair system damage if u cant find supply .
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aye, flux wave and flux beam are just another nerf for ICC
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-11-04 17:03
One way to think about Flux being underpowerd from an opponent's viewpoint. Have you ever seen the sparkle of a flux wave and gone "Oh crap! i'm screwed now!" or have you ever had a fleet of AI flux you and go "oh crap, thats alot of flux waves" And as for flux beams, considering they are only on a handful of vessles (Assault Destroyer, Torpedo Cruiser, EAD) You think they would do something other than look pretty. Even combined, sustained firing of flux beams isn't going to do anything.
The other factor about flux is that it's short range (limited to 250gu and under) combined with the fact that the armor and shields must be down on that facing it should do something one on one. When you're that close, if you have multiple ships within that short range, you typically cant fire due to Friendly fire possibilities. also taking into consideration that all the flux beams are fore mounted and you have more limitations when using it.
For weapons that are supposed to be unique, and difficult to use, they shoudl do more....
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"Universum est gelu quod atrum , nos es unus verus lux lucis"
GTN - Veneratio est Totus
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-11-04 17:43
Quote:
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On 2009-11-04 15:19, Pakhos wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-11-04 12:18, MrSparkle wrote:
Yes flux beam, flux wave, emp and ELF are all underpowered.
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Flux beam and wave isnt really big deal fro kluth since kluth has ahr. But poor icc, takes 5 mins to repair system damage if u cant find supply .
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True but I'm not basing it on their effect on Kluth. I'm basing it more on long ago when they actually did decent systems damage and ELF actually drained a significant amount of energy.
Mines are underpowered too btw  I'd say that's for another thread but might as well lump them in here with the other underpowered weapons.
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