| Author |
My new ideas Post |
µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
|  Posted: 2009-07-14 19:41
i think this game engine has some potential but it is being wasted by few people who claim balance over fun is the way to go. I am proposing a few ideas as they come to me for your consideration only to help improve what the gaem so far.
1. Engines don't need to draw energy, they need some kinda fuel much like the jump drive but this fuel runes out slower(also makes support ships more usful) for example,the 2 ion engines of a icc combat destroyer has a fuel storage level of about 5k total and gets about 250 gu to the fuel point or 5 fuel points to the thousand gu or you could lower that to 50 fuel points to the thousand to make it more intresting. i think this should be implimented cause icc and kluth factions have extra devices that draw way too much power and renders them less than a match for their ugto counter-parts.
2. support ships should have a reload drones specific to the task they need to accomplish for example, hull repair drones, armor repair drones, equipment repair drones, and refueling drones (if #1 is implimented) also the drones used to reload a ship would harvest asteroids and planet resources to store on the support ship so th eplayer or ai controling that ship won't have to jump back to friendly space to resupply resources.
3. oribitals should be built by the planet not the player, for example instead of defense bases you can have a orbital weapons platform control tower that auto builds and repairs defenses of a planet and like wise for plantary repair hubs this can be managed just like now OWPTC phase 1-5 with phase 5 controling up to 5 lite satellites or 3 heavy sats (lite sats can have something like 4 360 cannons and 2 torp launchers/ while a heavy can have 8 heavy cannons and 4 rapid fire torp launcher with anti invasion beams that only target drop ships.
4. planet invasions need to be streamed lined instead of risking ships to invade planets we need to improve transports and the way inf works. for example transports need to carry armies instead of just indivual solders, what i mean by that is the more experienced a unit the more solders they have in it so it would look some thing like this (unit 1 rank veteran total solders in this unit 1530/1530 task capture a beachhead on planet No Water ) units are named based on the order in which they board the troop transport. instead of pressing the U key to launch inf combat ships must first engane the Planet defenses then a transport ship jumps in to launch drop ships much like fighters instead they have increased armor or shields depending on faction they circle the planet untill all troops are launched much like building it is timed based on the amount of troops and the experience level of the troops and if they have a general with in the unit. Generals are faction heros that respawn if killed to enhance planet invasions by increasing the experience gained after each battle for a planet. for example the UGto general on planet A joins player Transport to turn the tide for the defense of pluto in which 30600 solders are fighting for control of the planet, planets generate solders at 2 new buildings forts and firing ranges you increase the cap on your solders by building barracks, planet armies are based on the size of the planet and its developement for an initional army including support units. battles are won based on if the invading army or the defensive army controls 55% the of cities on the planet. so if a planet has 15 cities they invaders must control 7 to gain control of the planet. but that doen't mean that the war is over it just means that the planet belongs to the invaders(or the defense has won) the battle continues to play out untill the original defense has surrendered or the invading forces have retreated.
5. stations should be built like platforms are now and players should get a new class of ship a titan or a super dread. if stations are built they can reinforce shipyard planet defenses or vital points or serve as a staging area for ships both ai and player to spawn at in enemy space, stations should also lose th ability to repair ships since that can be another reason to use support ships. stations should be based on three classes Planet defense stations, invasion stations, and longrange sensor stations- these are stations that can dectect cloaked ships for a few seconds or decloak if they are with in range of its disrupter device- used to disable ships for a few seconds.
6. weapons the way weapons are now they classed by type. i think they should be classed by mount. for example light mounted weapons beams and cannons these would be the most numerous, medium weapons missles and torpedos and fix heavy beams, and heavy mounts heavy cannons, rotating heavy beams and siege weapons, then special mounts for faction unique weapons that are for high ranked players and special elite ai so the standard cruiser might have 10 light mounts 4-6 medium mounts and 2 heavy mounts and 1 special mount the light mounts are divided in to front and rear 180 degree positions the medium would be 180 degree front and the heavy and special would be 45 degree front aswell you scale the mounts based on how many ships it takes to destroy a class higher than the previous for example it takes 5 cruisers to destroy a dread and 2 dreads to destroy a station or something like that.
7. planets need to really be updated i think you can do this by changing the way you build them and the way they display information. for example player A wants to builds planet Im Not Crazy in to a planet that can support a ShipYard they do this buy building a capital city to start the planet colonization process once the capital city is built the player builds more cities based on overpopulation percentage of the planet. population is capped based on the type of planet its size. also instead of building different types of buildings like now you can add structures to cities up to a limit of about 5 per city so one city could look like this 2 OWPCT, 2 research lab, power generator. while another can look like 3 Farms 1 power generator and 1 planet shield you mix and match based on what the planet needs to expand and whats best for planet defense and resource production. or you can have a mining city or a research city or an imperial capital city.
Please be kind and consider these ideas as the game is now and as a means to improve what we have. these ideas can be use with no restrictions as i am hoping that they consider these so they have a new prespective when patch the game in the future. also please excuse any spelling errors and grammar errors since i will not reread all this stuff. thank you and i look forward to any comments.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2009-07-15 01:43
Two points I need to comment on, the rest of your proposal I can conceed to let stand as is and seek community response.
1. Ever drive a car? Your engine produces X ammount of power and sustains itself and all systems. Now go and install a big sound system with large amplifiers and speakers. But don't change out your alternator or add a second battery. Now even with the engine running you kill your battery and your engine stalls or electrical system frys out because the demand is higher than the output. (I use to install car stereos, can you tell?)
Engines in this game produce power and like engines in the real world they produce X ammount efficiently and with a little surplus for other needs. But if you decide you need to tax them, they start to draw more fuel/power than they are producing. Just like modern cars and engines. Even Hybrids will start sucking down vastly more fuel than energy they are producing if you push them past "nominal" usage. Even nuclear ships and military aircraft have "emergency/military power" setting. This isn't like the StarTrek movies where they go to auxillary power. This is when they push the engines pass the redline and in return for more speed they loose power to other systems and quickly drain their resources. A jet flying without afterburners may stay in the air for 4 hours. Running the afterburners for just 5 to 10 mintues will exhaust all of their fuel. Now think of your ship in DS. Running at 2/3'rd power your engine still produces power. Running flat out you are dumping all your power back into the engines so begin to drain your reserves to maintain the power.
Thus this point is rendered mute as it currently replicates real world mechanics.
2. Second point I need to make is Platforms. If you only think of them as orbital platforms you are thinking unilatterally and doing yourself and your faction a grave diserivce.
Platforms are often built in orbit of planets to bolster the planets defense. But Platforms must be built by players and maintained by players. They eat more resources when they are damaged and in combat. But even when not in combat they eat up resources in upkeep costs. Such as running their power systems for maintaining their systems. Once out of resources they are removed.
But enterprising players/teams will also build platforms out in the middle of nowhere or in nebula's as resupply points for their fleets while on forward operations in hostile territory. Often time retreating ships can be tracked back to these supply points and if they are defenseless all the damaged ships may still be lost. A smart team will build a group of both supply and defensive platforms to protect their teammates at the resupply point from being rundown and killed easily.
Thus its integril to the game that platforms are not built by planets but instead built and maintained by players... Just one day ignoring a platform is enough for it to run dry and self-destruct.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2009-07-15 03:19
i think you misunderstand the meaning of the word streamline =P that would make planet invasion much more complicated than it is. when i heard streamline i immediately thought of planet invasion in sins of a solar empire. bomb > colonize, no infantry battle to worry about. at the moment you must calculate a logistics issue and bring sufficient resources and support to fulfill it. in SoaSE its an issue of firepower and staying power. i can see perhaps a need to simplify the ground battle but otherwise i think its fine.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2009-07-15 08:25
Quote:
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1. Ever drive a car? Your engine produces X ammount of power and sustains itself and all systems. Now go and install a big sound system with large amplifiers and speakers. But don't change out your alternator or add a second battery. Now even with the engine running you kill your battery and your engine stalls or electrical system frys out because the demand is higher than the output. (I use to install car stereos, can you tell?)
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Although this would be logical in terms of a car a starship or a sim thats susposed to be a Starship must conpensate for this. all the major sci fi relms and stories don't have this issue because they either have 2 separate power systems 1 FTL that when not in use powers systems and weapons and a Secondary Generator that supports the system while a ship is in FTL, the way you guys have it backwards you use virtually no power in a jump while combat and evasive draws way too much power it is unpractical. for example star trek ships use anti matter and deuterium the anti matter is for most ship systems why the deuterium is used to power the engines and aux systems life support food, replication and other stuff i am not saying copy them just make combat more easy i will admit that i only intended to post the engine idea but though i write a little more just in case, instead of running out of power mid battle a player should have ample energy unless their ship is on the verge of blowing up. also every thing must have fuel, like your example cars have gas that allows the engine to spin teh alternator which recharges the battery and powers the lights and sound system (not the boomin stuff).
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2009-07-15 08:33
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On 2009-07-15 03:19, Lark of Serenity wrote:
i think you misunderstand the meaning of the word streamline =P that would make planet invasion much more complicated than it is. when i heard streamline i immediately thought of planet invasion in sins of a solar empire. bomb > colonize, no infantry battle to worry about. at the moment you must calculate a logistics issue and bring sufficient resources and support to fulfill it. in SoaSE its an issue of firepower and staying power. i can see perhaps a need to simplify the ground battle but otherwise i think its fine.
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yea i will admit that i got a little carried away with that one, but all in all 32 troops defending a planet is silly, i was thinking about the combat style of MOO3 where unless you over whelmed the enemy you had to use tactics to cap the planet and you could orbital bombard to reduce the defenses and troop numbers, they way they got it now you might as well get rid of all bombers and just shoot planets with missles and torps (or speacials).
I don't understand the dev reasoning to change the way we bombed but they shoulda changed it to a bomber less version not a suicidal run at defenses that with one beam can shoot dont 15 bombs its silly and unpractical that doesnt inspire team work it makes it harder to assault planets with teh ships you gave us.
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2009-07-15 08:34
This is space game, aka science fiction.
There is no law there is no logic on how an ship works because this is all science fiction. Yes id be saying if they are so smart to invent a space ship im sure their smart enough to invent a sepparete energy scource for weapons and engines/jumps.
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2009-07-15 09:00
Point 1: earlier post. Also why have fuel when u can totaly do it all with energy?
Point 2: I like the way it is now, thoug id like to see a variant that can support shields for the icc to.
Point 3: This idea is not good atm because then you can sitt like 2k away form planet and shoot it down and the planet would not heal itself if something is happenign. I like the way it is now.
Point 4:
I like the idea that you need to take down planet defence before beein allowd to drop infs. That would take away the tranny rushing thats happening now. Lets say you cant drop infs if ure not orbited like 200-300 gu away from planet. Then if the defence is up, they will shot down the infs, and if its down they land.
About the big o battle of the planet i think todays version is pretty good, no need to make it all so advanced and complicated when you got somethign that works. When they fix all bugs and get the game in the rigth direction this would be a good idea to add to another version.
Point 5: Stations should still be spawned from planets but i think they should cost resources, all ships for that mather.
I also see that u want to focus one station just for detecting cloaked luths..no point in that..i think their pretty good atm, but i do belive they should remove the figther bombing from all stations, even the game. I think its cinda redicilus that you can sit 5-6k gu away from a planet and bomb it.
Point 6: I liked the old moding, redo that juts with an smarter option, like you can put max 6 torps and max 5 beams on a cruiser that allows 8 spots. Then you can chose if u want to have 4 vs 4, or 6 torps and 2 beams etc. (this is just a random number) The old way i agree was bad but if you had some control over it, it would be amasing.
7: Capital city is already there just know as colony hub. I do like the fact that you can chose how many population you can have on a planet. The freedom to do whatever you want with it i like. If i want to go for a low populated planet with many low level defence bases or if i want to make a high pop planet with high level defence etc.
But planet atm is crap due to the fact they dont do any damage. shig has announced that he have changed them so i gues well have to wait and see. But what i do not get is that the game still got figtherbombing in it, this is pretty lame as you can sit long away form planet and shot it without reciving no damage! I liked the old bombing when u had to cloud bombing. 483 actuly had alot of good things in it, and bombing was a part of it, all they had to do was to change the splash/damage on bomb and structures.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3697
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2009-07-15 12:09
Quote:
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On 2009-07-15 08:25, *OmniVore* wrote:
Although this would be logical in terms of a car a starship or a sim thats susposed to be a Starship must conpensate for this. all the major sci fi relms and stories don't have this issue because they either have 2 separate power systems 1 FTL that when not in use powers systems and weapons and a Secondary Generator that supports the system while a ship is in FTL, the way you guys have it backwards you use virtually no power in a jump while combat and evasive draws way too much power it is unpractical. for example star trek ships use anti matter and deuterium the anti matter is for most ship systems why the deuterium is used to power the engines and aux systems life support food, replication and other stuff i am not saying copy them just make combat more easy i will admit that i only intended to post the engine idea but though i write a little more just in case, instead of running out of power mid battle a player should have ample energy unless their ship is on the verge of blowing up. also every thing must have fuel, like your example cars have gas that allows the engine to spin teh alternator which recharges the battery and powers the lights and sound system (not the boomin stuff).
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Actually you are incorrect here again... Go back and watch some sci-fi movies and tv shows again and you will constantly hear things like, divert all power to engines... Divert life support to engines, etc... This shows that just like this game, even Sci-fi shows which you use as justification also say the engines require power and there are times when the need for more speed requires power to be diverted from other systems.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-07-15 12:52
Ever drive a car? Your engine produces X ammount of power and sustains itself and all systems. Now go and install a big sound system with large amplifiers and speakers. But don't change out your alternator or add a second battery. Now even with the engine running you kill your battery and your engine stalls
Oh, install a magneto system.
the way you guys have it backwards you use virtually no power in a jump while combat and evasive draws way too much power it is unpractical.
Jumping does require power, but the people of the DS universe are not as stupid as Trekies, they charge and store power in capacitors of most systems until ready to use.
all in all 32 troops defending a planet is silly
Who said it had to only be 32 troops? Its 32 units, you can think of that as anything you want, fire teams, companies, divisions, whatever.
you could orbital bombard to reduce the defenses and troop numbers
You can do that is DS
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DarkCloudd
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 85
From: Iowa
| Posted: 2009-07-15 13:26
Yes they do say that in the shows and movies but just like a nuclear reactor it requires fuel to constantly run, the more energy you use from the reactor the faster it gets depleted. Why do you think they were always looking for more deuterium in Star Trek. I remember one Star Trek Voyager episode in particular where they were stuck in a void with no chance to find any fuel they were running their ship on minimal lighting and other settings running really low to conserve their fuel supply so they could keep going for a long time. And yes this is a sci fi game and it doesnt have to "follow the rules" but still it should at least follow some semblance of reality.
I like the idea of changing the supply ships drones to specific kinds of drones. I think it would make the supply ship more useful. The ship should also be changed to make it less of a fighter. It should have better shields and a limited number of beams like only 4 beams two 360 degree beems and one fore and one aft 180 degree beam. Also someone said that they think that supply ships should use resources to repair, I think that if a supply ship has resources in the cargo hold, the reload drones use up the resources first then they use up the ammo limit that they are given. The problem with the supply ship is repairing one Dread to 100% hull from 5% almost completely depletes the drone supply and if there are no supply platforms handy then you have to return to a friendly planet to resupply and that means leaving the battle and your allies run the risk of getting destroyed because you arent there to help them. I think this could help PvP combat last longer if the supply ship could do more in one sitting.
Someone in this thread also talked about ships costing to spawn. Other and spawning an initial ship for the first time it doesnt cost anything even after the ship has been destroyed. I think something that should be added is after a ship is destroyed you have to have enough resources on the planet for 10% of the full cost of the ship to get it from the shipyard on the planet. Also destroyed ships cannot be spawned from any jump gate because you dont have the resources to spawn at a jump gate. This should only be implemented on Cruiser and higher class ships.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2009-07-15 21:53
i dunno, having more than one way to take a planet seems nice to me - you can bomb the power generators then come back in a few minutes to pick all the infantry off before landing, or do a couple bomb clouds to reduce the number of infantry on a planet before landing, or bring in a fleet of stations and slowly descend a bunch of inf onto the planet, or have a couple ships ferry infantry back and forth (very vulnerable to interception). it gives you different options depending on different skill sets and resources.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-07-16 11:24
I'm not going to comment on anything specific, only about power and propulsion
Idea's should belong in Beta website.
and Omnivore, you can have multiple quotes in a single post you know. its just a little copy pasting.
same for Tommas, why have two posts after another if you can edit yer first post?
Quote:
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On 2009-07-15 08:25, *OmniVore* wrote:
Although this would be logical in terms of a car a starship or a sim thats susposed to be a Starship must conpensate for this. all the major sci fi relms and stories don't have this issue because they either have 2 separate power systems 1 FTL that when not in use powers systems and weapons and a Secondary Generator that supports the system while a ship is in FTL, the way you guys have it backwards you use virtually no power in a jump while combat and evasive draws way too much power it is unpractical. for example star trek ships use anti matter and deuterium the anti matter is for most ship systems why the deuterium is used to power the engines and aux systems life support food, replication and other stuff i am not saying copy them just make combat more easy i will admit that i only intended to post the engine idea but though i write a little more just in case, instead of running out of power mid battle a player should have ample energy unless their ship is on the verge of blowing up. also every thing must have fuel, like your example cars have gas that allows the engine to spin teh alternator which recharges the battery and powers the lights and sound system (not the boomin stuff).
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Being a startrek fan and cannon freak, i would like to add the following to yer startrek.
Propulsion- Thrusters: A charged particle exhaust to maneuver the ship. fuel almost infinite as they are waste products of the impulse reactors and warp core.
- Impulse: A plasma exhaust drive system, powered by Deuterium Fusion plants (Impulse reactor). Capable of FTL flight! (time dialation)
- Warp Drive: Anti-mater, Dilithium, Deuterium. a plasma power generator, sending hudge amounts of energy to the nacelle's to create that subspace bubble to go warp speeds.
Power- Warp Core: Not only giving plasma power to the nacelle's. and trough EPS conduits to various primary and secondary systems, shields, weapons.
- Impulse Reactors: Deuterium Fusion power plant, the secondary power system onboard starships. capable of tapping into the EPS system and providing plasma.
- Fusion Reactors: Deuterium Fusion power plant, Not hooked up to a Impulse drive system, Providing plasma to the EPS or directly to local systems.
- Power cell: transportable power cells, provide basic backup power or emergency power.
while i agree that in ST starfleet uses mostly Deuterium as fuel for there starships. But whey you look at all other races in ST, you will notice that no everyone uses the same kind energy/propulsion approach.
DarkSpace
We appear to uses three kinds of propulsion, Main trust, Maneuvering power and FTL. - Main trust is provided by our ships engines, usually IE or PSI, and we have options to swapping these out to AFE, PFE or AME. all of them have different kind of statistics.
- Maneuvering power are smaller versions around the main engine, these smaller engines have there exhausts not pointing backwards and are only to provide for ship turning and additional power. (not visible for the player)
- FTL or faster than light is provided based on tachyon propulsion both for Humans and K'Luth.
3 euro cents
[ This Message was edited by: Eledore ICC Massis [R33] on 2009-07-16 11:31 ]
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