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Suggestion for chitinous armor |
Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
|  Posted: 2009-06-25 15:11
Who thinks it sucks?
Who uses it regularly and thinks it doesn't?
In my experience so far, it seems that in 95% of situations, you're better off with the automated hull repair for a few reasons.
1) It goes down first.
2) It does not "really" regenerate. If it's down, it regenerates so slowly that it might as well be considered down until you get back to a supply depot. hull repair will remain useful for the entire duration of your trip.
3) There isn't really that much extra armor to make up for the lack of regeneration and going down first.
One of the big advantages with ships with multiple Organic Armor segments is that you can maneuver to maximise the amount of incoming fire you can take by spreading it across the different armor segments. If we assume you're maneuvering well, it still does not really matter when using chitinous armor, because it'll go down in the first couple of hits no matter which way you rotate, and stay down for the rest of the fight.
Proposals:
1) Have chitinous armor be placed at the innermost layer, between organic armor and hull. This way, you'll be able to spread the damage normally, and it'll be serving as an extra buffer when you'll actually need it. Since it regenerates more slowly, it seems more useful when saved for last.
2) Increase regeneration slightly (in terms of %/sec)
3) Increase armor amount by 50%.
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-25 15:12 ]
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-06-25 16:16
chit armor can work wonders for stations or dreads with constant resup
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Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
| Posted: 2009-06-25 16:18
I know it works nicely when you have constant resupply. 
And the suggestion I have given of placing it on the inside and increasing the armor amount to be closer on par with regular Organic Armor shouldn't change its ability there relating to that specific scenario.
Since it reduces in strength when being hit from any direction, I think that even with the increased armor amount, it won't come remotely close to doubling the defense of a large ship being hit from multiple sides, since that'll just make it go down X times as fast all the same anyway. However, it would definitely benefit from the increased capacity especially when switched to the inside. There needs to be enough buffer there to maintain the sweet spot (while being repped) of the outer layer close to 0%, for a little while.
However, it would greatly help its general viability on other ships in other scenarios, and make it a more real alternative to hull repair. This would be especially true in smaller/solo fleets without an abundance of supply support along for the ride.
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-25 16:57 ]
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-06-26 10:19
Quote:
| On 2009-06-25 15:11, Satenki wrote:
Proposals:
1) Have chitinous armor be placed at the innermost layer, between organic armor and hull. This way, you'll be able to spread the damage normally, and it'll be serving as an extra buffer when you'll actually need it. Since it regenerates more slowly, it seems more useful when saved for last.
2) Increase regeneration slightly (in terms of %/sec)
3) Increase armor amount by 50%. |
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- That was the idea from Two dev's when the introduced it into beta.
Chitinous should be the last and final layer between space and the hull.
There have been some problems with the placing of the armor and the result was that Chitinous armor gets hit first. I see these have not been resolved yet.
- Chitinous Fiction: Its a Hull re-enforce layer on top of the ship structure. Involves Bone structure and metals. Because K'Luth usually don't use metals in there ships, there handling and repairing of that kind of defenses is limited.
While chitinous armor slowly repairs it self i find that it should not be classified as K'Luth armor and it should not have the K'Luths increased repair rates.
- If #1 can not be made working then i partial agree by this statement, that Chitinous should be evaluated about its strength.
50% might be to much however. But should this be made true, hope the self repair rate gets adjusted for compensation.
Dev's correct me if i was wrong.
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Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
| Posted: 2009-06-26 11:41
I agree that regeneration should be slower than with Organic Armor, gives it a different feel. This should be much less of an issue when placed on the inside I guess, and its good to know that's what they have planned!
I guess the extent of #3 depends on how much we want it to be useful when in constant resup. In any case, since it is 1 piece affected from all directions, it should go down relatively fast even with a 50% increase.. the current capacity is about half of normal armor isn't it? Heck, the icc gets an extra full capacity shield with full regen to redistribute to any single side..
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 11:47 ]
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2695
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-06-26 13:19
Quote:
| On 2009-06-26 11:41, Satenki wrote:the current capacity is about half of normal armor isn't it? |
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If i recall the talks i had correctly. It should be the same as the hull HP.
So if a Hull has 3500hp the chitinous armor should be somewhere on that value.
But given that hull values are fixed and chitinous only has a base value and level multiplier it might be a bit above or below it.
P.s Wonder when Dev's will reply to this..
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-06-26 13:36
According to the game code ....
(15120 + (4075 * level())) would be Chitin
(25500 + (7620 * level())) would be Organic.
(36250 + (10792 * level())) would be Standard
So, at level 0, Chitin is almost 40% weaker then Organic.
At level 8 (I think thats dread level), Chitin is about 45% weaker.
(assuming i'm reading this correctly)
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-06-26 13:59
I'm at work so I don't have access to the files, but I think dreads are 6 (regular) and 7 (assault).
Might be 7/8, but I don't think so.
Stations are 10.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-06-26 14:00
Dread1 is 6, Dread2 is 7.
So....yeah.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-06-27 14:02
I'd like somebody to work on chitinous being layered. I dropped my ahr on my Krill, was running double chit with stacked armor mods.
The result:
the original layer of chitinous was shredded in seconds by a DESSIE (typical, really), then the armor underneath, meanwhile the second layer of chitinous just seemed to be invisible to the system, as it stayed at 100% as I was spewing spacecrap from my pourous hull. Is this the way it is supposed to be? If so, then there is really no point in stacking the chit. If not, then the game has a bugg.
I'd like to know either way....
futhermore, if chitinous is really supposed to be so weak, why have it? May as well drop it. An ICC dessie can penetrate it in LESS than 2 full alphas. The second one hits the organic. I've tested it and I know that which I speak of. It should flat out be increased or dropped. At this point it IS truely pointless to even bother with it, even with stacked enhancemnts.
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2009-06-28 00:57
Quote:
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On 2009-06-25 16:16, Sensitivity wrote:
chit armor can work wonders for stations or dreads with constant resup
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"work wonders for stations" pls - 'wonders' unload your extensive experiences upon us on how this has saved your Hive's, Nest's and Colony's time and again from destruction or managed to turn the tide of a battle? Our most unused upgrade is a wonder? More likely wonderful for the enemy we fight against.
1) K'luth are not designed atm to be supped in combat - our supps implode from just the thought of splash damage alone.
2) I have a station with 43% armour enhancements and all chit armour - It folds like a house of cards even with planet supp.
3) Enhancements to armour do not seem to include the chit armour option.
Chit armour is a joke atm - it's a non viable option to choose for any ship.
Unless you play luth day in day out like the ppl who have taken the time to bring this to attention over and over since its introduction in recent versions pls - keep your short K'luth exposure times to yourself.
Am happy to use above mentioned station for testing if interested - though u may find a 1 -2 second difference in arc destruction this is still pointless.
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