| Author |
New Enhancement Loadout for EAD, AC and Nest |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2009-02-26 11:26
On the selection of whether to Spread the enhancment all around or stack them all on one Stat. I definately went with the latter.
Introducing SuperArmored EAD: +44% Armor
You know those annoying MIR dreads regenerate armor so fast they're almost impossible to kill? This baby can do the same thing. It turns out that more armor rings u have, the higher relative % regenate u get. Hehehe and i got more Fore armor rings than a station.
I got on all Reflective armor except for 1 outter Fore plate of ablative. Specializtion is the way to go, ablative right now have 50% resistance to particle dmg, and no beam penalties, and higher HP. but dont regen.
Introducing Retro-1.483 HotRod AC:
U remember when u can mod AME's on Assult Crusier? Those deadly duelist ship can get on any ships' "Six" and pulverized em. Well, this is close, +24% thrust, +14% max speed, +4% turn rate. This high performance ship is a pure speed demon.
Introducing Rapid Fire Nest:
+22% weapons kool dwn, allow this monster to pump out Stellar Incenerator fire at 7.69 salvo/min, and on a 9 SI Nest, that's 69 rounds of SI/min. Still working on this one, anyone with Adv or Enhanced weapons cooler, plz contact me.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-26 13:06
I don't think they exist? Perhaps they do but just don't drop anywhere, since I do see rare enhancements given out at events that never drop.
The problem with a Nest that can rapid fire is the rapid energy loss.
I have seen more than one Battle Station with 8 advanced weapon multiplexers (where in the world are they finding them all? I've found 3 in all my time). They hurt. But I wonder if 8 advanced armors would be better overall?
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ssj4megaman
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2003
Posts: 54
From: San Diego
| Posted: 2009-02-26 13:50
jeez where do these enhancements drop? rogens?
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2009-02-26 14:49
No, the Nest doesn't really drain unless I use the 8 Assult ruptors, or speed. idealy, those should be saved for hull anyway. The 9 SI should take care off most ships except stations.
When fighting stations, a more rapid output of dmg could help overcome it's defences or repairs, and geting that extra salvo in before the enemy rotates.
Nest armor isnt as tough as ugto's, so i went for higher dmg. I havent seen a Super armor(+30% armor) Ugto stations yet, i'm sure it would be awsome.
Point being, play to ur strength, enhance what ur good at. Rather than trying to compensate for a weakness. ie. putting Speed enhancer on dread, u => baka
P.S. [whisper] u didnt hear this from me... but yes, Rogen Rift server hold's alot of rare enhancments.
Kill the elite pirate AI ships and they drop really good enhancements.
It's a newbie server so u can only access 1st RA ships. If u get any weapons coolers, or multiplexors, u call me, we trade. I got a bunch of Zalrr's def (7% armor,7%shield)
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-26 15:38
Same here I'll trade zlarrs and minor builds for advanced multiplexers.
I think a Nest with multiplexers would be better than with coolers. I think the multiplication to 9 SI's damage is greater than the reduction in their cooldown. Kinda like how engine tuners do more on frigates and scouts than they do dreads.
I don't have what it takes to test it though.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-26 16:45
Calculator time.
Okay, so let's take a beam that does one point of damage, and fires once every second, for the sake of this calculation. That means that every second, it does one point of damage.
Let's add a cooler, so that it fires (let's say) 5% faster.
That means that every 0.95 seconds, it deals a point of damage, so in one second it will fire 1.0526 times (roughly), dealing that much damage each second. 1/0.95 = 1.0526(...)
If we take off the cooler, and add a multiplexer (or whatever it is that increases damage) we get 5% more damage per shot instead, so it'll deal 1.05 points of damage per second.
This seems to suggest that increasing fire rate is better than increasing damage, but only very slightly. Now to try combining the two.
Let's have three weapons: A beam with +10% damage, a beam with +10% fire rate, and a beam with +5% of both.
The fire rate beam will fire once every 0.9 seconds, doing 1.11(recurring) points of damage a second.
The damage beam will fire once per second, for 1.1 points of damage. Note how it's now doing one hundredth of a point of damage less per second.
The hybrid beam will fire once every 0.95 seconds, and will also deal 1.05 points of damage. I'm pretty sure this means that it'll do 1.05/0.95 points of damage per second, which comes out to 1.105 points per second.
So, in conclusion, to maximise your damage output, you want to focus on fire rate, rather than damage.
[EDIT]Doh, maths typo. Hybrid weapons are NOT more powerful overall.
[ This Message was edited by: Gejaheline on 2009-02-26 21:07 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-26 20:11
Let me think about this. Multiplexers vs coolers. Without the numbers we cannot figure out just what is best. We can only guess at how much damage they might do per second.
For simplicity's sake let's say SI have a 10 second cooldown. 8 limited coolers reduces that by 16%, to an 8.4 second cooldown. Let's say they do 100 damage each. 8 limited multiplexers adds 16% damage, to 116 damage each.
So you can do 116 damage every 10 seconds, or 100 every 8.4 seconds, for one SI. The coolers have a slightly higher DPS, by a negligible amount but still higher. And that's for just 1 SI. It's 11.6 DPS vs about 11.9 DPS.
No matter what I do on the calculator, it seems coolers are better than multiplexers so long as the total % remains the same (meaning obviously 8 advanced multiplexers are better than 8 limited coolers). You seem to get a slightly higher DPS when you reduce the recharge over adding to the damage. Plug in whatever values you want: 200 damage with 5 second cooldown, 100 with 20 second cooldown, whatever. You will always have a higher DPS if you reduce the cooler a certain % vs raising the damage that same %.
Am I wrong somewhere? It doesn't seem right to me  My head wants to believe that adding 16% to a large damage is better than reducing a tiny cooldown by 16%, for DPS. Even if the values are 1000 damage every second, reducing that 1 second to .84 seconds is better than raising that damage to 1160.
EDIT: Even if I split it to 4 coolers, 4 multiplexers, the 8 coolers is better. I get roughly 11.7 DPS for that first example. I can't see how an equal amount of multiplexers can ever be better DPS-wise than coolers?
Geja, with your example of the three different beams, it has to depend on how the values might be rounded. For the beam with 5% of each, the DPS is 1.105 without rounding. That's still worse than all coolers. If that 1.05 damage were rounded to 1.1 then the DPS rises. I'm trying to figure it out with bigger numbers closer to what we might see ingame, and coolers win every single time.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-26 20:20 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-26 21:04
Damage per second can be calculated as:
Amount of damage inflicted per cycle (in HP) divided by weapon cycle time (in seconds) = damage per second (in HP/s, naturally).
Thus, for my examples:
Straight beam: 1/1 = 1 DPS.
Beam +10% damage: 1.1/1 = 1.1 DPS.
Beam +10% speed: 1.0/0.9 = 1.11111(recurring) DPS.
Beam +5% both: 1.05/0.95 = 1.1052(...) DPS.
Note that these results are effectively coefficients, so you can multiply a given DPS by any of these DPS numbers to get a given weapon's adjusted DPS.
...Whoops. Yes, okay, hybrid weapons are NOT better than fire-rate-improved weapons. Excuse me while I edit my previous post.
As strange as it seems, increasing fire rate is not quite the same as increasing damage by the same multiplier. Now I'm going to have to work out why, precisely.
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2009-02-26 21:09
Quote:
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On 2009-02-26 16:45, Gejaheline wrote:
Calculator time.
Okay, so let's take a beam that does one point of damage, and fires once every second, for the sake of this calculation. That means that every second, it does one point of damage.
Let's add a cooler, so that it fires (let's say) 5% faster.
That means that every 0.95 seconds, it deals a point of damage, so in one second it will fire 1.0526 times (roughly), dealing that much damage each second. 1/0.95 = 1.0526(...)
If we take off the cooler, and add a multiplexer (or whatever it is that increases damage) we get 5% more damage per shot instead, so it'll deal 1.05 points of damage per second.
This seems to suggest that increasing fire rate is better than increasing damage, but only very slightly. Now to try combining the two.
Let's have three weapons: A beam with +10% damage, a beam with +10% fire rate, and a beam with +5% of both.
The fire rate beam will fire once every 0.9 seconds, doing 1.11(recurring) points of damage a second.
The damage beam will fire once per second, for 1.1 points of damage. Note how it's now doing one hundredth of a point of damage less per second.
The hybrid beam will fire once every 0.95 seconds, and will also deal 1.05 points of damage. I'm pretty sure this means that it'll do 1.1/0.95 points of damage per second, which comes out to 1.158 points per second. This is an entire 0.058 points of damage more than the faster-firing beam.
So, in conclusion, to maximise your damage output, you want to focus on both damage AND fire rate, but if you're going to focus on one or the other, focus on fire rate.
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Not 0.95s, It's 1/1.05 = 0.952s.
So cooler and multiplexier have same DPS.
But multiplexier affects damage of alpha and don't increase energy usage.
So multiplexier is better overall.
Cooler is only good for EMP cannons and ELF beams compared to multiplexier.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-26 21:53
Quote:
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On 2009-02-26 21:09, Lithium wrote:
Not 0.95s, It's 1/1.05 = 0.952s.
So cooler and multiplexier have same DPS.
But multiplexier affects damage of alpha and don't increase energy usage.
So multiplexier is better overall.
Cooler is only good for EMP cannons and ELF beams compared to multiplexier.
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Actually I was told multiplexers do increase energy usage, and now that I'm remembering, increase cooldown too.
So multiplexers increase damage, increase energy usage, and increase cooldown (slower firing). Coolers decrease cooldown while maintaining energy usage, so it's the same amount used over a shorter time. So these numbers we are coming up with are actually worse for multiplexers.
Coolers seem superior. I can't think of a situation where I'd want an equal level multiplexer over a cooler now.
Quote:
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On 2009-02-26 21:04, Gejaheline wrote:
...Whoops. Yes, okay, hybrid weapons are NOT better than fire-rate-improved weapons. Excuse me while I edit my previous post.
As strange as it seems, increasing fire rate is not quite the same as increasing damage by the same multiplier. Now I'm going to have to work out why, precisely.
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It's the way the math works. It doesn't make sense to me either, but the numbers do not lie.
The question is how the rounding of decimals work in this game. For all purposes it might be equal DPS because of rounding. The number of weapons may also make a difference. The 1 SI of my example becomes 9 SI in a Nest, which multiplies all those numbers further and may or may not affect how damage gets rounded. Is it each individual weapon's damage and cooldown that's rounded, or the total damage of all weapons that hit a target that's rounded? It makes a difference.
Plus like I said, I was told multiplexers also add to energy usage and cooldown, so they seem clearly inferior now.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-26 22:01 ]
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-26 22:04 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2009-02-26 22:08
Since a decimal value in computing can have quite a lot of decimal places, I strongly suspect either it will be an integer (and be truncated) or it will have enough decimal places that rounding errors are very very small, and I'm in favour of the second.
Or, you know, things have enough hitpoints that adding 5% has a significant impact on the integer segment of the value, and the fraction isn't quite as important as in these examples.
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mannythepogs
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 140
From: mbllanes
| Posted: 2009-02-26 22:40
We'll no mater how you do the computation you still forget something and that is battle condition
How accurate are you? Fire rate means you have to hit the target more ... and your target will do everyhting to avoid your fire and not to mention in fleet battle we're not talking about one enemy ship but multiple ship.
Ill prefer to fire 3 Alphas (accurate). Than 5 (If you accurate good for you)
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-26 23:11
But there's no enhancements for accuracy. And I think coolers would help overall, since you get to fire more and have more chances to hit (if using cannons).
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-02-26 23:13
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So, in conclusion, to maximise your energy drain, you want to focus on fire rate, rather than damage.
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I fixed a small typo in your post.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-27 00:04
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On 2009-02-26 23:13, Fattierob wrote:
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So, in conclusion, to maximise your energy drain, you want to focus on fire rate, rather than damage.
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I fixed a small typo in your post.
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That depends on what weapon's fire rate you're increasing. Cannons won't drain you much, nor will missiles. Torps and beams will. You have to be careful if you use weapon coolers and use lots of torps, or beam coolers and constantly fire beams.
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