| Author |
Totally unbalanced! |
unimatrixzero
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 11, 2002
Posts: 11
|  Posted: 2009-02-22 08:15
The game has really become unfair. I cant even use AD yet again
cause my rank is not high enough. In my opinion it was a
mistake to change it the way that you have to wait even longer to
get the same ship you already had. Well it would not have been too
bad if you still could load your MD with torps. The way it is now
the Kluth have too much of an advantage with the cloak. It is
practically impossible to see them if they dont want. ECCM dosent
really work. They can sneak up on you (always from behind) with your
eccm on. And even if you get them in front of you then you cant
really hurt them cause your weapons are far too weak. I mean it
takes forever to kill even an AI Dread (witch you can see) with
those weapons. When you use an AC your energy is over so quickly you
can only get trough the armor and then you cant fire anymore.
I think the ICC needs better shields/energy, weapons and a way to track
kluth. Maybe a beacon on all ships so that they cant hide all the
time.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:27
how about learning the strategy first.
combat dreadnaught, best line dreanaught in the game. sit 1500 GU away and fire. if a luth decloaked behind u, jump away/turn/mash num*2 and speed away.
missile dreadnaughts are death from afar, but easilly killed up close. think about where u should be when in said ship.
and about energy? learn to micro manage. as in, dont mash your spacebar.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:29
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:15, unimatrixzero wrote:
The game has really become unfair. I cant even use AD yet again
cause my rank is not high enough. In my opinion it was a
mistake to change it the way that you have to wait even longer to
get the same ship you already had. Well it would not have been too
bad if you still could load your MD with torps. The way it is now
the Kluth have too much of an advantage with the cloak. It is
practically impossible to see them if they dont want. ECCM dosent
really work. They can sneak up on you (always from behind) with your
eccm on. And even if you get them in front of you then you cant
really hurt them cause your weapons are far too weak. I mean it
takes forever to kill even an AI Dread (witch you can see) with
those weapons. When you use an AC your energy is over so quickly you
can only get trough the armor and then you cant fire anymore.
I think the ICC needs better shields/energy, weapons and a way to track
kluth. Maybe a beacon on all ships so that they cant hide all the
time.
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I'm sorry you feel the way you do in regards to losing your Assault Dread because of your rank. However, we made this change quite a few years ago because the nature of the ships are far different than they once were. Just because you had the rank to fly the Assault Dread years ago, doesn't mean it's the same ship it was years ago, so technicaly, it's not the same ship you once had.
As far as your K'luth have the advantage statement, each faction has its advantages and disadvantages. I'm afraid you're just going to have to re-learn the game, and to adapt to the changes.
Energy too has been massively changed - you can no longer run around at full speed pressing the spacebar, expecting your energy to hold out. If every ship did that, we'd be back at 1.483 which was a terrible, terrible version. We know this because people voted with their feet and left.
As far as your suggestions go, again, I'm afraid you'll just have to learn to adapt to the game that DarkSpace now is, and not what it once was. Beacons no longer make K'luth perminantely vissible, and ECCM doesn't drain their energy or keep them uncloaked. We have made changes to K'luth so that their cloak isn't too powerful, and again, you'll just have to find out what your factions advantages are over K'luth (rotate your shields for instance).
- Jack
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Nax
Marshal
Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 768
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:37
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:29, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Energy too has been massively changed - you can no longer run around at full speed pressing the spacebar, expecting your energy to hold out. |
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Actually, only the UGTO was able to do this. ICC have *always* had to juggle power usage with speed and doing it well was always an art form. Power is different yet its the same - if anything it's slightly better in the most current iteration than it's been in years.
But as another mentioned, the game is no longer simply about gravitating towards two or three ships for ALL purposes. For ICC, that means you really should be flying more than merely the Assault Cruiser & Assault Dreadnought.
Consider this all a deliberate coordinated plan. The intention was to make many ships viable once again. One of the reasons you don't see beacons on every hull (or the ability to swap it in) is to give you a reason to run the ships that have been left with them. ECCM can be pinged to detect cloaked units yet the largest units have a massively extended cool-down...again, doesn't mean you can't use JUST the largest units but it's a heck of a lot easier to do the same thing with a destroyer.
Personally, my play account has a Heavy Cruiser, Combat Dreadnought & Assault Dreadnought as the ships that I keep handy for fighting...I end up using the latter infrequently and the former...both long range cannon platforms...for most combat.
Please keep in mind, flying solo leaves little leeway for errors. That's always been the case with Darkspace...fly in squadrons/fleets/packs or whatever you want to call it and your survivability will increase tremendously.
[ This Message was edited by: Nax on 2009-02-22 08:41 ]
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:40
Quote:
| On 2009-02-22 08:15, unimatrixzero wrote:
The game has really become unfair. I cant even use AD yet again
cause my rank is not high enough. In my opinion it was a
mistake to change it the way that you have to wait even longer to
get the same ship you already had. |
|
The ship redistribution was done after adding the Grand Admiral rank during version 1.481, which is well over 4 years ago. No ship redistribution has occurred since then, other than adding one or two new vessels, and removing some redundant ship layouts.
Quote:
| Well it would not have been too
bad if you still could load your MD with torps. |
|
MD's being able to mount torpedo's was unintended, and extremely unbalanced. However, there is still an option for those wishing to use MD's as a close ranged ship. SABOT's are a very effective weapon to use against larger targets, although not so overpowered as torpedo's were.
Quote:
| The way it is now the Kluth have too much of an advantage with the cloak. It is practically impossible to see them if they don't want. ECCM dosent really work. They can sneak up on you (always from behind) with your eccm on. |
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Just having ECCM on is not sufficient to unmask cloaked ships. ECCM only modifies the time taken for a ship to re-cloak, and has a cumulative effect along with beacons which can cause K'Luth ships to take a long time for the cloak to be effective; during this period they are also unable to fire. ECCM also has an initial ping effect when activated, which will temporarily unmask all cloaked ships within range. The cool-down timer inhibits the overuse of this on larger ships - it is primarily intended to be a scout ability. Each ship in DarkSpace is designed to fulfill a specific role.
Quote:
| And even if you get them in front of you then you cant really hurt them cause your weapons are far too weak. I mean it takes forever to kill even an AI Dread (witch you can see) with those weapons. When you use an AC your energy is over so quickly you can only get trough the armor and then you cant fire anymore. I think the ICC needs better shields/energy, weapons and a way to track kluth. Maybe a beacon on all ships so that they cant hide all the time. |
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Weapon values and ships layouts are under constant review, and are often tweaked with regards to player input. With regards to Assault ships, they are designed to deal an initial punch to a target, and then get out, recharge, and head back in again. They are not intended for general melee combat, but instead to work as part of a team, taking out specific high priority targets. This is one reason they have higher rank requirements when compared to similar tiered combat ships - they require a greater degree of skill and co-ordination to use effectively.
I hope this helps to explain some of the design elements and concepts with regards to the current balance. I look forward to any further questions.
[ This Message was edited by: Drafell on 2009-02-22 08:43 ]
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It's gone now, no longer here...Yet still I see, and still I fear.rnrn
rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Reek Havoc *XO*
Chief Marshal
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 327
From: Philadelphia
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:46
Othr than the annoying desync I would have to say balance is fair in this latest patch and as of 1509B. There are major differences and re-learns required. The only other advice I can give that hasn't already been shared is use your enhancements wisely, they make huge differences when paired or used in conjunction with ships strengths and weaknesses.
I disagree on your unbalanced post, I fly an AD and it can once again stand toe to toe with other dreads if you use the right tactics. Come onto ICC some time and I'd be happy to show you.
-RH
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DarkSpace: ICCU (Fleet tag: =ICC=) is always recruiting ICC pilots! (/clan join =ICC=)
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-02-22 08:53
Thank you. To say that Kluth are overpowered and that Kluth are showing up on your six to turn you into floating resources is very encouraging to me and my squadron. We play kluth as intended, you see, and that means we fight when we want, don't when we shouldn't. If you are the lone ship, and sitting in a dumb spot, or trying to get in close on a ship to alpha it in a Missle Dread, then you are EXACTLY the kind of target we seek and destroy.
Again, thank you for confiming that we are on the right track.
Az
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Bandit
Cadet
Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: 165
From: Under a rock
| Posted: 2009-02-22 09:53
I would like to add to Azreal's post. There is a limit to our cloak's effectiveness. If you run up on us, our ships will become visible to you at very close range. But know this.... We play Kluth as intended meaning, most of the time, do not expect that you will be fighting just that one ship. We almost never fly alone so if you want to pick a fight, bring backup or you will not prevail.
This game has been redesigned around group effort for the most part. You will no longer be able to own the MV with one ship. Heck, we have to use about 2 dreads and a cruiser to take out an ICC combat dread. If we bring less than that, our armor/hull won't hold up long enough to destroy the CD. So, you see, we are at a disadvantage also.
So, before you get all mad and throw in the towel again, get with some vets that can re-teach you the ropes. And yes, the new version still has some bugs to work out but they are working on it.
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Freespacer
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 15, 2003
Posts: 27
From: Vienna
| Posted: 2009-02-22 10:47
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:29, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
[...]and not what it once was. Beacons no longer make K'luth perminantely vissible, and ECCM doesn't drain their energy or keep them uncloaked. We have made changes to K'luth so that their cloak isn't too powerful, [...]
- Jack
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Could you please explain what those changes where? That it takes the more time to cloak the more ECCM is on? That is NOT new.
No, honestly i want to know. What is it that makes cloak "not too powerful"?
Cheers
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-02-22 10:53
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 10:47, Fatal Freespacer wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:29, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
[...]and not what it once was. Beacons no longer make K'luth perminantely vissible, and ECCM doesn't drain their energy or keep them uncloaked. We have made changes to K'luth so that their cloak isn't too powerful, [...]
- Jack
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Could you please explain what those changes where? That it takes the more time to cloak the more ECCM is on? That is NOT new.
No, honestly i want to know. What is it that makes cloak "not too powerful"?
Cheers
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General balance changes. That's what makes cloak not too powerful.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2009-02-22 10:57
Energy drain when cloaked... cloaked ships are stuck at going about 50% speed, or less if they are charging weapons and trying to replenish their energy stores. One scout pinging every 3-5 seconds renders them extremely vulnerable.
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It's gone now, no longer here...Yet still I see, and still I fear.rnrn
rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-02-22 11:19
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 10:57, Drafell wrote:
One scout pinging every 3-5 seconds renders them extremely vulnerable.
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh!
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bucket link
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2009-02-22 11:25
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:53, Azreal wrote:
Thank you. To say that Kluth are overpowered and that Kluth are showing up on your six to turn you into floating resources is very encouraging to me and my squadron. We play kluth as intended, you see, and that means we fight when we want, don't when we shouldn't. If you are the lone ship, and sitting in a dumb spot, or trying to get in close on a ship to alpha it in a Missle Dread, then you are EXACTLY the kind of target we seek and destroy.
Again, thank you for confiming that we are on the right track.
Az
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lol, you dont even attack when u outnumber anyone  had that confirmed this morning when K'luth had 2 stations, 3 dreads and 2 cruisers in sag whilst ICC only had 2 stations and a cruiser. saw lots of self backpatting in /y but not much else
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Freespacer
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 15, 2003
Posts: 27
From: Vienna
| Posted: 2009-02-22 11:36
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 10:53, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
General balance changes. That's what makes cloak not too powerful.
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Thank you for your ... - whatever it is. It surely is not an answer to an honest question. I see i am taken seriously. Thank you again.
Cheers
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mannythepogs
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 140
From: mbllanes
| Posted: 2009-02-22 11:38
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 11:25, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-22 08:53, Azreal wrote:
Thank you. To say that Kluth are overpowered and that Kluth are showing up on your six to turn you into floating resources is very encouraging to me and my squadron. We play kluth as intended, you see, and that means we fight when we want, don't when we shouldn't. If you are the lone ship, and sitting in a dumb spot, or trying to get in close on a ship to alpha it in a Missle Dread, then you are EXACTLY the kind of target we seek and destroy.
Again, thank you for confiming that we are on the right track.
Az
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lol, you dont even attack when u outnumber anyone had that confirmed this morning when K'luth had 2 stations, 3 dreads and 2 cruisers in sag whilst ICC only had 2 stations and a cruiser. saw lots of self backpatting in /y but not much else
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what do you expect from a Kluth (Low Armor Low Hull)... we are not UGTO .. lol .... we attack in pack or not at all.. we are not design to do 1 on 1 battle... re read your history.
[ This Message was edited by: mbllanes - Dark Vader on 2009-02-22 11:40 ]
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