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Is Map log[jumping off the map] a SY exploit? |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2009-01-07 22:20
Ok, someguy, bink, blink, just said that jumping off the edge of the map, which causes ur ship to go back to the garage (i do understand why this function exists in the first place).
And then coming back through the transfer gate is an exploit.
Personally, i think that bull. but let discuss it in a formal manner so next time it happen. somebody dont get over eager and trys to bann me.
1.) my accuser says it unfairly shortcut the travel to a shipyard and/or 2 min log time.
On the surface this point seems valiad, but not so, has anyone ask why are we able to spwn from the transfer gates in the first place? doesnt that bypass travel time from SY as well? U can get instanly from a SY to any corner of the Sag server from these Transfer gates, it was designed this way. so it CANT be an exploit.
And the reason for this:
Jumpdrive and WH in 1.5 have been nerf, so cross-system travel has become difficlut. So the Dev came up with the transfer-gate-spwn set up to make it easier for players to travel.(it had other benifits such as divding the serves up to reduce lag, serve as a spwn point for AI, etc)
Think about this, in 1.483, when u SY a ship, it stays that that planet, u can only spawn that ship THERE.
Now U can spawn ur ship at ANY transfergate, even if it's across 3 or 4 systems.
By his very own logic, that would be massive exploit. But does he do it?
u betcha!
2.) Off map loging. Personaly i kinda agree with my accuser on this one. I have no idea why this function exists. Just as i have no idea why they make ECCM cooldown on stations instant. But developers made it, there MUST be a reason, right? They would NEVER make random changes without a valiad reason, right?
to finish this, players just use what the game makers gave em [shruggs]. For the record, there were 5 of u and one of me, we had a good fight, got plenty of hull off each other, and lost 1 BD for me. And i didn hear u complain about it DURING the fight...
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Mersenne Twister
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 11, 2003
Posts: 1161
From: Sector C Test Labs and Contol Facilities
| Posted: 2009-01-07 22:35
Yes it is.
Transfer gates are a different hill o' beans.
Getting across a system is no more challenging than it has been. Even dreads have ample fuel to move around in any given system, and have enough to move several systems over if properly utilizing jumpgates. The current fuel limitations were designed with that in mind, and were in beta for a while pre-1.5 release. Wormholes likewise have enough range to get around in-system.
The metaverse was split into the various constellations to better take advantage of new server hardware, and the transfer gates were added as both a means to change from one server to another without having to exit the game first, and so that a faction would always have a place to spawn basic ships if for some reason other servers were offline.
As for ships not being locked to the last shipyard they were docked at, (if i could find the quote) Faustus has stated that's disabled because its necessary for some upcoming feature.
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| Just as i have no idea why they make ECCM cooldown on stations instant. |
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That's a bug caused by a typo, it'll be fixed with the next update
[ This Message was edited by: Mersenne Twister on 2009-01-07 22:54 ]
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2009-01-07 22:36
rgr that.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2009-01-07 23:10 ]
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Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA
Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
| Posted: 2009-01-08 04:06
this is similar to ability use (enter) SY while under blockade ...
example ... player XYZ is under fire by enemy fleet on orbit of SY planet
in moment his hull is damaged he simply enter SY and choose different ship > spawns at transfer gate or other SY in system and returns nearly instant
or even worse the planet is not under blockade so again when he takes damage from e.g. long range hits he just simply enter SY to save it's ship
my suggestion is ...
it takes 10s to enter shipyard (something like prepare for docking sequence 9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...0 )
and this delay doubles if You went to ship selection screen in last 180s ...
this may force people to camp less abusing SY in/out
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-01-08 05:54
i wish jumping out of the system (forcing a SY dock) while under fire was an exploit.
the 'night stalking blood sucker' (figure it out) repeatedly saved his battle station from ICC forces by doing just this.
Anyways gripe aside i do have a contribution to this thread:
Quote:
| my suggestion is ...
it takes 10s to enter shipyard (something like prepare for docking sequence 9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...0 )
and this delay doubles if You went to ship selection screen in last 180s ...
this may force people to camp less abusing SY in/out
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I know its Taboo to talk about this, but here it is.
in another game when you fire at someone, you cannot dock because of an agression timer (2minuts). again, if you undock, there is a time you must wait before you can redock (30s). Furthermore, once docking, there is another timer that prevents changing ships for 30 seconds. But thats another game, with completely diff mechanics. but there is a point to bringing it up, that being; modifying something else to your own uses.
as DS currently stands, a planet can be blockaded by a single ship too close (ill return to this later). so if someone docks at a blockaded SY they have to spawn elsewhere. you all know this stuff already, im leading...
so the hostile planet gets blockaded and the hostiles dock, only to spawn at a transfergate behind you in the same/diff ship. doing this repeatedly is SY abuse (c/d?).
so here is a sugestion: make blockading a planet have clear steps, and render the SY inactive in Both directions. So what im saying is, not only can a player not undock from a blockaded SY, but they cannot Dock either. and to make it easy for the player base, giving us an exact step by step way to blockade/end a blockade.
eg; have 4 ships withing 1k gu of the planet for 2 minuts. (this will also stop planets getting blockaded by single AI scouts) then to break the blockade, have 6 friendly ships within the same distance (or remove one of the hostile ships)
IMHO this would not only fix "SY Abuse" but would open up a bunch of strategies for system capture.
the summary of my sugestions.
- Put a 30 second timer on ship change within the SY
- Change blockade mechanics
- Change SY mechanics and perminently end 'SY Abuse'
thx for reading
[ This Message was edited by: Meko on 2009-01-08 05:59 ]
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Serapis
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 09, 2002
Posts: 73
From: Europe
| Posted: 2009-01-08 06:20
First of all: Please make the changes transparent and communicate. Trial and erro after a patch is annyoing.
To the topic.
What is with transfer gate camping?
When I died last time and wanted to come back to the system (hostile exept 2 planets), the transfer gate was camped heavily.
IMO this weighs the same as the SY issue.
My 2 cents - kepp on flaming 
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-01-08 07:23
We might be reversing the blockade code, so you can spawn to defend a planet, but not go back into it. Needs more player input on it.
Other than that, for the topic at hand, read Mer's post.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-01-08 08:30
Quote:
| We might be reversing the blockade code, so you can spawn to defend a planet, but not go back into it. Needs more player input on it. |
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Yes Yes Yes!!!
i mean think about it... as wiki pedia says...
"A blockade is any effort to prevent supplies, troops, information or aid from reaching an opposing force. Blockades are the cornerstone to nearly all military campaigns and the tool of choice for economic warfare on an opposing nation. The International Criminal Court plans to include blockades against coasts and ports in its list of acts of war in 2009."
blockades stop stuff going In ... not comming out to defend.
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Bryghtblade
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 29, 2007
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2009-01-12 13:09
Quote:
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On 2009-01-08 08:30, Meko wrote:
Quote:
| We might be reversing the blockade code, so you can spawn to defend a planet, but not go back into it. Needs more player input on it. |
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blockades stop stuff going In ... not comming out to defend.
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Totally agree! That would be a good way of stopping sy abuse.Also about jumping of the map for safty during combat etc,just assign a lot of hull damage to the jumper lets say 1/3 rd totall hull.that should eliminate the combat cheaters as the consequence loss of prestige if their ship blows up should teach them a lesson! its also simple to apply for the developers!
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2009-01-12 15:40
i think this is a great idea. and it would also seem as if alot of other players think so too. my only question is when could it be implemented? next patch? 3 patches from now? right now?
I only ask because i think it would be a great idea and am looking forward to its implementation.
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Drow
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 06, 2003
Posts: 449
From: USA, WI
| Posted: 2009-01-12 22:08
As soon as they display the edge of the map, so I know where it is, then it still will be a bad idea to asign any punishment.
1. If I E-jump, I dont know where the map edge is. And you want to punish me for it?
2. If I plot a jump, I do not see the map edge so have no idea if its outside it. Not my fault. (Yes obviously way way way out there will be off the map.)
How about just making the edge a boundry that you cant go past? Or make the edge much farther out? Or have it wrap around so it just moves you to the other side of the map. So others can just follow you.
And I think it was said it is this way for future use. So if it is to remain then there would need to be a realistic method to stop the abuse. Not something that globaly punishes anyone, inocent or guilty.
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Staplergun
Cadet
Joined: January 09, 2009
Posts: 1
| Posted: 2009-01-12 23:46
I would assume it's because the game might glitch if you go flying wayy off the map. Maybe it should just give you a collision warning well in advance and just simply destroy your ship
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-01-13 02:41
Quote:
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On 2009-01-08 07:23, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
We might be reversing the blockade code, so you can spawn to defend a planet, but not go back into it. Needs more player input on it.
Other than that, for the topic at hand, read Mer's post.
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Well for some input, one stupid AI scout flying around shouldn't be blockading all enemy planets around it.
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Bryghtblade
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 29, 2007
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2009-01-13 13:46
Quote:
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On 2009-01-12 22:08, Drow wrote:
As soon as they display the edge of the map, so I know where it is, then it still will be a bad idea to asign any punishment.
1. If I E-jump, I dont know where the map edge is. And you want to punish me for it?
2. If I plot a jump, I do not see the map edge so have no idea if its outside it. Not my fault. (Yes obviously way way way out there will be off the map.)
How about just making the edge a boundry that you cant go past? Or make the edge much farther out? Or have it wrap around so it just moves you to the other side of the map. So others can just follow you.
And I think it was said it is this way for future use. So if it is to remain then there would need to be a realistic method to stop the abuse. Not something that globaly punishes anyone, inocent or guilty.
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Thats why I said 1/3rd hull damage........That wont take long to fix at any depot but would certainly put a stop to combat cheats...so I dont think anybody who does it accidently will mind a bit of hull damage and niether will those who use it to properly log off.Only yesterday I had whittled an ICC assult dread down to 35 hull,(I wont mention who.....)he knew he was going down so he bailed to the map edge....GRRRRRR!,and then it happened again today...GRRRRRx2.The wrap around idea is good but may be more difficult to implement for the devs. Oh and I've never jumped off the map deliberately or otherwise so I imagine the accidental jump offs are few and far between
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Bryghtblade
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 29, 2007
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2009-01-13 23:37
A further thought....both Delando and Drow have valid points to make,why should every one be penalized...quite right....only the cheats should suffer so how about this.......Only ships with battle damage jumping off the map should automatically explode.This should keep every one happy....except the cheats of course............
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