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K'Luth ships (Scale) |
Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda)
Grand Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 919
From: Pittsburgh PA, USA
|  Posted: 2008-10-05 10:52
Well, yesterday was my first deep dive into the new patch. Liked a few things I saw and disliked a few things I saw. I spoke with some about an issue I had though I thought posting it here would get some more eyes on it.
Scale:
For the longest time I would have to say the scale is a favorite amongst Luth pilots. It is the best ship for a loner to strike with and vanish. This is after all the K'Luth way of fighting. When I logged into 1.5 I noticed the scale was a purley beam vessel, this saddened me. The scale was always used as a cannon based ship, never a 100% close range vessel for its armor s far to weak, even in this patch. I think Smartin would even testify to it being a favorite ship in this faction. SOMETHING has to be done about the weapons set-up. THis ship will hardly ever be used the way it is and it's a shame. It needs to have a good amount of cannons to be an effective ship. Lots of you know the low player base Luth has; and this ship makes "lone wolf" operations possible.
Any feedback by the Devs would be great. Lets make the scale a staple in K'Luth fighting once again.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2008-10-05 11:03
I don't have my shiplist handy at the moment, but are there no other ships will fulfill the role you want to see the scale have? Potentially there are others out there, just with a different name..
If not, though, it might be worth adding another ship to the Kluth. I'm not really the ship designer, so there might be a reason there's not a cannon-heavy ship out there, but there might be room to just add another variant. The trade off of not having much modding, after all, is that theoretically we have more stock ship variants.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-05 12:33
I agree with Sanity, the scale as it is, attempts to fill the role of an assult cruiser. And i have look in the past 2 days, there are no Crusier class cannon ships for the kluth, the Scarab miner is the closest , it's got 6 psi cannons, but 2 of those face aft.
I will say that when Scales attack in groups of 2 or more, they are quite good, with the faster ruptor recharge time, which is not as fast as CL's but still faster than 1.483. the cloak time has gotten better with use of ecm, which comes standard.
With that said, the Scale is no longer capable of takleing dreads as it used to.
I do believe that new Shell is a potential subisitue for a long-midrange ship, 7 psi cannon and 6 psi missles. but since it is a destroyer, it's armor and weapon will be a step down from crusier class.
So yeah, a cannon version of the scale would be nice.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2008-10-05 12:35 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2008-10-05 12:56
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought that was the entire point of the k'luth? Incredibly powerful, short-ranged beam weapons that require the ship to cloak, get close, fire off a devastating volley, recloak and reposition?
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2008-10-05 12:57
as delando said, the shell is a fairly solid mid range ship, however, missiles are still not very effective due to poor tracking and increased usage of PD
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Sanity Assassin (K'Luth propaganda)
Grand Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 919
From: Pittsburgh PA, USA
| Posted: 2008-10-05 13:34
For larger ships that can take a beating yes, short range beams are good. But when alone...and this is often on luth you need a ship that can do both tasks. the scale was the perfect ship for that, it was never overpowered but still caused a headache to a whole fleet when only 1 scale was around.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2008-10-05 13:48
I think that we have to learn to adjust our tactics and playstyles. You can no longer get Particle Cannon range with K'Luth cloaking for long-range harassment with little chance of getting reprimanded. Rather than request a return to that, you can also try adjusting your tactics accordingly and just tear ships to shreds with beamspam.
Look at it this way: ICC are the long-range faction, and they suffer from increased Point Defense as well! (not to mention, K'Luth cloak and close-range weaponry makes them excellent at taking out ICC's missile based vessels)
Selecting a different faction means more now rather than just ship looks and shield/armor power.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2008-10-05 15:59
put that wolf pack into good use
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2008-10-05 16:02
I've always thought of K'Luth as the wolfpack faction, due to their individual fragility, but combined lolwut firepower. Game's supposed to really pick up on population now regardless.
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2008-10-05 16:03
Quote:
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On 2008-10-05 16:02, Pitch Bardiche wrote:
I've always thought of K'Luth as the wolfpack faction, due to their individual fragility, but combined crazy awesome firepower. Game's supposed to really pick up on population now regardless.
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fix'd
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-05 16:14
If possible, we really need you to test the Scale against other factions cruisers to see if this is STILL a problem. We've changed a lot, and we want to know if things are still a problem - we don't want to know if it was a problem.
If the Scale has armour issues, or whether it has issues closing between medium range to close range - then let us know.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-05 20:54
I do have to agree with Birdich that ICC long rang ships have been nerfed,
especially the MD, which has lost about 3 ecms and can no longer engage at long range without dectection. with out that cover, MD is just one big chubby target waiting to get jumped. and with the extended Jumpdrive charge time, this is deadly. Faustus' MD was the first target during the 3on3 battle event yesterday, so he can testify to this.
This combined with the IT missiles range reduction, the increased use of point defence by both ships and platforms, as well as the new format of launching missiles from sides of the ship instead of the front. Has reduced the effectiveness of the MD quite substantically.
MD's can no longer engage BD or EAD EVEN if good tactics are used.
I DON'T agree with Birdich's statement about the scale p-cannon usage as harassment. Give me a 1.483 scale with p-cannons and psi missile loadout, and i will KILL any BD or EAD with it superior agility and faster jd charge. Scale had the highest fore weaponry of ANY cruiser class ship, and the lowest fore armor. Which made it a tricky ship to fly, but in the hands of experienced kluth vet like sanity, it is deadly.
On Birdich's second statement about beamspam, unfurtunatly that IS what the scale has become. and not all that sucessfull one: scales primary targets in the last version were dreads and stations, because scale weapons are exclusive forward arc, and they are the least manuverable of the 3 faction's cruisers. BUT the ship class difference is too great in this version, the scale do not have enough armor wound dreads with its crusier beams. A TC(outright toughness) and AC (shield rotation) can.
Inconclusion, there is a reason why u never saw a all beam scale in 1.483,
Natural selection, anyone who foolish enough to pilot one have already been weeded out of the kluth gene pool.
I'm satified with the kluth as it is due to the enormous improvement make by our wonderful development staff to the new Mandi, and rebalanced dressies.
It' just that it would be nice to have a Kluth gun cruiser, it seem slightly counter intuative that we have the Shell dressy with 7 psi canons forward, but most on a cruisier is 6 on the Scarab miner, and 2 of those face backwards.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2008-10-05 21:11 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-05 20:56
The reason you killed thos EAD's, BD's, AD's, etc, was because of that imballance of having huge amounts of cannons on a ship that was not meant to have them.
Also, on the subject of the MD - don't go it alone. You can't just jump into a fleet of enemy ships alone and expect to survive anymore.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-05 21:29
hmm... point well taken.
may i take up ur offer about testing out the scales agianst other crusiers?
The MD is abit case spacific though. like in the situation yesterday, the 3 dread of each faction were 2k gu apart. and Faustus's MD was near the rear of the icc's formation. the instant the battle started, the ugtos jumped him.
Which makes sense becasue he has the least close in weaponry, natural target. But there two problems with this picture:
1.) at that distance, with his ecm operating, they shouldn't have EVEN seen him. If he had let loose a whole salvo, then his sig should have jumped yes, but at that distance, with the new ITs, the MD couldn't event reach the Ugots'
2.) the point jump mad by the ugto wasnt perfect, they were still 400-300gu from him. he still could have wounded at least one of them. but with the new missile format, the missile launch from the SIDES of the MD, and does this BIG LAZY LOOP before it faces target. it don't hit jack (unintended pun) Not just the ITs, the ARs too.
And when they do hit, they dont hit the front arc, its hit to the SIDE armor of the advancing dreads. AND they just SMILE and keep coming.
With the extended JD recharge time, it made for a rather quick battle.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2008-10-05 23:53
I just realized staff have colored names. Heehee.
But Delando, name's BArdichE, not Birdich.
And... Yeah, I mean harassment because Cruisers aren't supposed to solo Dreads anymore. It's a real darn shame the Scale won't be able to solo Dreads on its own anymore, but that goes for Heavy Cruisers and Missile Cruisers as well.
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