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Jumping whilst travelling at speed |
Captain Caveman
Cadet
Joined: October 12, 2002
Posts: 668
|  Posted: 2007-03-01 10:03
Just hoping for a quick discussion about jumping.
The old method where you had to be stationary in order to jump otherwise you would damage your jump drive worked really well. Some of my most enjoyable moments in this game came from chasing damaged ships through systems, or running for my life from a horde of angry enemy.
Of all the things that have changed since I last played this game, I find this one of the most annoying, particularly in combat because it makes getting out of battle extremely easy.
I was wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were, and whether or not the next version could possibly revert back to the old system.
Just to recap for anyone who wasn't around before the current system. The old jump system meant that in order to jump, your speed had to be zero. You could press shift + j to perform an emergency jump in the direction you were facing, up to 20000gus, but depending on how fast you were travelling, you would damage your jump drive, meaning that you would have to wait for it repair before you could jump again.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2007-03-01 10:15
wasnt a particularly bad system either. when you saw that gang/ead/ad slowing down, you knew something bad was about to come your way. did make point jumping easier too. people would carry an extra jump drive (or two) to swap when they ejumped, something that would get them in trouble today.. heck you used to be able to plot a jump past a planet, press orbit mid-jump and insta-orbit when you got there (for the new kids, a long time ago people acutally used transports filled with infantry to capture planets)
ah those were the days.
of course, if you want to you can still slow to a stop before jumping, but its generally more advisable to stay on the move
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2007-03-01 10:44
Umm yikes Doran, people don't use tranports anymore? That's one of the things I used to love so much about the scenario server before the MV-there'd be a mad rush of transports, engineers, bombers and destroyers at the beginning of a map. Remember shuttling 2 infantry at a time to a nearby planet, then bringing 10 for capture?
I fear this game is no longer what I fondly remember.
If people don't use transports, what do they use to capture planets?
And I liked the old method of slowing to a stop before jumping (it used to do that automatically when you pressed J if I can remember). Even though movies like Star Wars allow a hyperjump while moving, for game balance I prefer the old method. You can always emergency jump while moving but you don't have the luxury of plotting your course and might wind up crashing into something. Not that I ever did that...
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2007-03-01 11:02
mirvs. or neuts. get rid of all the inf and drop 4 inf.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2007-03-01 11:13
that is a critical flaw in this current release. The only way we have found to actually get kills is to use one of three options.
1) hope they lag so bad that any attempts to jump just dont come thru for them.
2) dictor ships.
3) kill them faster than their JD can recharge.
The first is unfortunate and i dont fight people I find to be discoed or something.
The second is HEAVILY frowned upon, except when used against mirvers. Dictors kill battles REALLY fast.
The Third works with teamwork on large ships but anything below cruiser is a waste of time. they can recharge in the time it takes to get thru their first layer of armor/shields.
The old method sounds.... well, truly it sounds annoying, to have to come to a stop to jump. There are a lot of combat techniques involving short jumps at speed. I dont know which way would be better, or if a whole new way could be best, but I do think this game would be more fun if jumping into battle was more of a critical investment than simply having to believe you will live long enough to recharge.
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2007-03-01 11:43
i think we could try using the old system again 
no harm in trying for change.
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Lyedtau
Admiral
Joined: January 18, 2007
Posts: 147
From: Dev land
| Posted: 2007-03-01 13:17
The old system worked, as does this one. This allows people to get into battle a lot easier, and generaly, people like jumping into combat moving (if an enemy ship is moving, and you're at a stand still, you're only going to get one alpha off, if that, before they're out of range).
Not to mention moving whilst jumping adds extra hardness to jumping ontop of people when they e-jump, or even just point jump away. You have to think about how fast they're moving, how long it's going to take you to reach the target, so you have to plot ahead so you'll land behind them when you come out.
Also, a lot of people had problems understanding why you couldn't jump whilst moving.
This is, I believe, the first complaint against the jump system change. A lot of players were happy with the change.
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Binks
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 469
| Posted: 2007-03-01 13:29
To be honest I did like the old system quite a bit better, though I doubt it's going to change, added an element of difficulty to battles that aren't there anymore?
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$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2007-03-01 13:46
Yeah, I have to agree with Caveman and Binks. I liked the challenge that it brought to the fight. However, I think with the unbelievably disproportional pres loss in this version, coupled with actually putting some skill into plotting your attack would decrease the already pitiful amounts of real combat that take place in this version. Most people jump out before they're even into hull, much less to the smoking hull.
And Sparkles, you should see what Kluth and UGTO def do to poor trannies 
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2007-03-01 13:48
Quote:
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On 2007-03-01 13:17, Lyedtau wrote:
This is, I believe, the first complaint against the jump system change. A lot of players were happy with the change.
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I just hate the insane range you jump to when you're at max speed. it's like 2k+ gu away.
Tell me anything that canot stop in 2kgu from <30gu/s. Or turn
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2007-03-01 15:30
I like the current system.
Oh noes! Yeah I know.
In truth, both systems work well. I like this system more, it allows a touch of complexity when jumping (and actually makes point jumping more difficult). Alot of combat techniques revolve around jumping while moving as well, to me.
Also, it just makes more sense than having to stop to jump, but thats just an opinion on my part.
-Ent
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2007-03-01 15:35
I really dont know where to stand on this one. On one side, jumping while in motion does add a measure of skill and ability to combat. On the other side, it leaves it too easy to jump OUT of combat when you are losing. There must be an alternative, middle-ground that can be worked out. Let's start hearing people's ideas on how they think the jump system should work so as to address both of these issues.
How about 2 jumped drives, short and long ranged. short range only jumps about 3000 gu, but can be used in motion. Long rang drive works ONLY at rest. No such thing as E jump anymore. E jump now means use the short jump drive, or something. Both drives are depleted and must be recharged after either is used (but does not take more energy to recharge both than we are used to for recharging only 1 drive).
Seems reasonable. A little extra programming to be done there, but I dont think it is too radicial to be impossible.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman *FC2* [R33] on 2007-03-01 15:37 ]
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2007-03-01 16:00
Quote:
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On 2007-03-01 11:13, Kanman *FC2* [R33] wrote:
that is a critical flaw in this current release. The only way we have found to actually get kills is to use one of three options.
1) hope they lag so bad that any attempts to jump just dont come thru for them.
2) dictor ships.
3) kill them faster than their JD can recharge.
The first is unfortunate and i dont fight people I find to be discoed or something.
The second is HEAVILY frowned upon, except when used against mirvers. Dictors kill battles REALLY fast.
The Third works with teamwork on large ships but anything below cruiser is a waste of time. they can recharge in the time it takes to get thru their first layer of armor/shields.
The old method sounds.... well, truly it sounds annoying, to have to come to a stop to jump. There are a lot of combat techniques involving short jumps at speed. I dont know which way would be better, or if a whole new way could be best, but I do think this game would be more fun if jumping into battle was more of a critical investment than simply having to believe you will live long enough to recharge.
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Oddly enough your "Critical Flaw with this Current Release" has been around during all 3 of the releases I have played.....although in the previous 2 I don't recall it being called a Flaw.
Killing Lagged/Discoed/AFK ships is IMO unsportsmanlike, and something I refrain from (sorry if I didn't realize you are lagged or discoed) However, I have to deal with Lag and Discoes same as you, we both know this can happen when we log in, its a risk we take. As for AFK ships.......stumbling upon an AFKer in deep space and killing it...well like I said unsportsmanlike, but if you go AFK in orbit!?.....well Unsportsmanlike as it is you shouldn't have went AFK in orbit.
Dictors? I love em! My three favorite targets are supplys, bombers and Dictors.
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| Dictors kill battles REALLY fast. |
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This is mostly due to the fact that the current player base in general upon seeing a Dictor comes completely unglued, trembles in fear, and instead of trying to destroy the "Threat" simply gives up, lays down, and dies (presumablely so they can log to the lobby and complain about Dictors) My only problem with Dictors is the "It won't let me get away! OMG! I'm gonna Die! and Lose Pres! I am too LEET FOR THIS! I can't be killed! I am UBER.......it must be a flaw/bug/exploit/or anyone who flys such a ship MUST be some sort of greifer/loser" Attitude people have......ME I look at Dictors like "w00t! a Dictor! KILL IT! KILL IT! KILL IT!"
3 most important Targets in MV just happen to be the 3 most easiest to kill also (Bombers, supplies, and Dictors) and all most people can do is complain when someone lays one in their lap for their Killing pleasure?
kill them faster than their JD can recharge? Thats always been the case usually. Back to the topic of this thread, in the old days it was "kill them faster than their JD can recharge, AND they can come to a stop to jump away"(or e jump)
The old system for Jump Drives was very likely the ONLY thing I truly dislike about 481 when I started, Glad its gone......I can only imagine the complaints it would bring about if it were still in use today, or reinstated.
482 I only disliked Fluxwaves and then only the power they had and the ability to use multipule Flux waves...and they complaints they brought on.
This current version? the only thing I TRUELY dislike is the time consuming ordeal that is Modding and upgrading a ship! It is in fact the ONLY reason I EVER jump out of combat before I have killed or been killed. I just don't wanna spend all that time remodding a new ship. Otherwise I'd die A LOT more often, most people know that I tend to become so intent on my target as to completely ignore the fact that someone ELSE might be shooting at me
I realize that my Blatant support of Mirving(yet I never bomb anymore), Dictors (yet I only fly em against Bombers),and my love for all the players you ALL generally can not stand , My insistance that Balance is an evil Thing....irritates many of you....but....I tend to consider EVERYthing, and EVERYone before forming an opinion, and leave ME, MYSELF and I out of the equation entirely....For everyone that flies a Dictor there is one who hates it, for everyone that hates Mirvs there is one that will Mirv, For everyone that disagrees there is one that agrees.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2007-03-01 16:10
Dictors are easy targets...
When they're alone.
But dictors are never alone for very long.
Dictors don't neccessarily kill a battle - thats just the end result of it - dictors kill the general fun of a battle, when theres no hope of escape and the only way to survive is to kill lthat dictor - which is incidentally is or will be very soon surrounded by its friends.
And a dictor can very, very easily keep a fleet dictored and be out of range while its buddies kill you.
Personally, I see dictors as being in general malicious. Its only purpose is to pad someones kill stat. And when someone dies - well in this version - the want to continue fighting is probably very low.
Anyways back on topic.
There doesn't need to be a middle ground Kan... honestly, both worked, and I would personally favor keeping it the same. Theres nothing wrong with it...
-Ent
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BLACKHAWK(ENGLAND)
Cadet
Joined: March 19, 2006
Posts: 268
From: Manchester, England
| Posted: 2007-03-01 16:30
Just a qestion on this JD system you are talking about.
Wont this be more affective against icc and ugto as kluth could jump then cloak, then you wouldn't find them unless your are realy good at finding cloaked ships?
Which i find is more in kluth faver but if kluth are gunna be weak armored then i think its ok.
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