| Author |
Should MIRV bombs destroy resources? |
Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
|  Posted: 2005-12-23 18:17
The power of bombs in this most recent version surprised me when I came back a week ago after my year-long absence. I did not realize that bombs had become... so incredible in power. Past 1.480, they were a more popular means to capturing planets than using transports, but seeing them in action in this most recent version is astounding. Gone is the required aiming - you don't need to select a certain target to destroy it, only hit the planet. I have seen an ICC bomber frigate reduce a 70 pop planet with 32 heavy infantry and 32 structures into a giant... tumbleweed, with no life or anything else up on it at all. And that... frightens me.
But, it filled me with a new insight, one that I talked over with a few in the lobby this evening, mainly Petey. And he agrees.
This thread is about my thoughts (and comments about) whether MIRV bombs should destroy resources on the hit.
"But it would create another advantage to using Neutron Bombs!"
"But it would add more challenges to "balding" planets!"
"You suck, Grim! What do you know about this game!?"
Many of you have seen it before, I'm sure. Some of you have done it. With one ship, with no other support... not even a supply ship... you've taken a planet... and you've crushed it. There was no aiming for a specific target. Just B and go. And the entire planet was smoked until nothing was left alive on it.
Yet... when all is said and done... all of the resources are intact on the planet.
If MIRVs can be so devastating as to destroy everything on a planet... how do the raw materials survive? How do the hydrogen and oxygen takes not rupture and explode? How do the stockpiles of metal and heavy metal stay together? How? How does this happen? If there are massive, underground bunkers to hold of these resources... why can't other buildings be hidden down there, like the colony hub? If these resources are all in near-orbit, why can't players seize them or destroy them?
How, after the destruction of everything on a planet, does the planet keep its stockpile of three million units of metal?
Think about the bonuses to the game that this would create: extractors would serve a greater use in the game beyond the first week after the MV is restarted. Planets that have had their resources removed would have to be watched over even more carefully as metals are brought in from allied planets to support the rebuilding of the nuked one. In Petey's words, "...that would keep people busy, fighting all around the system, more action more excitement, try to build there, especially if the planet lacks some of the more higher level resources they cant get".
There's a new price to this, too. Since resources could be destroyed by devastating a planet, people could nuke the planet and leave it alone, forcing the original faction to reimport the materials to build it - adding more time to an already time-consuming process, especially if it's a barren planet. Which is why I'm wondering if perhaps a MIRV bomb could be assigned to destroy a certain amount of resources per hit... a set number. Or, alternatively, if, with the destruction of a structure, resources are destroyed along with it (assuming that the safest place for materials would be to keep them in doors, in storehouses). But, I think that it would give greater use to mining in the MV, and would make starports more important (the way it is, they're usually found only on shipyard planets and planets with factories on them). And, in my opinion, it would enrichen the game.
Thoughts?
---Edit: Oh, dear. I forgot to add Planet Siege Missles and fighters that bomb planets. Given that these all contribute to the destruction of planets, they, too, should destroy resources along with MIRVs.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimith (™ of Drafell Inc.™) on 2005-12-23 18:19 ]
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_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
| Posted: 2005-12-23 18:52
1.480 Bombing :'(...
Sounds cool though, only problem is that there are so many resources on planets in MV (at least from what I remember).
~Switch
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2005-12-23 22:24
yes. make the mIRV more powerful then it already is.
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2005-12-23 22:29
Fattierob, out of all of the complaining you've heard and read about how I love my planets, you should know perfectly well I would be against making the MIRV more powerful than what it is without a sound reason. And this is a sound reason. It gives more meaning to the extractor ship class, and the starports... and it increases the difficulty and challenge of the game. Mines will be more important than what they already are. I understand that the MIRVs could be used in an application of "total war" (destroy all of the resources), but, considering how much bombing goes on in the MetaVerse, I don't see the rate of planets being bombed increasing.
I made the suggestion because I see it as a way to better the game, and to at least... create a modicum of realism. Why, this is an idea that could have been implemented as soon as bombs were made to remove structures on planets, but it is only now that I am suggesting it.
But, thank you for your sarcasm.
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TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2005-12-23 22:46
it might be a good idea to have a building to house a the resources so if the structure gets destroyed than no more resorces for you... like a warehouse of sorts and have the starport be the place to buy the recouces ect...
[ This Message was edited by: Troy Mars *S1* on 2005-12-23 22:49 ]
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-Smokey-
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 22, 2004
Posts: 784
From: Florida
| Posted: 2005-12-23 23:18
add alll resources on an entire planet to a warehouse ??
dont think so 
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2005-12-24 04:26
I like the idea, so we can attack hostile shipyard planets and leave them unable to get stations for some days
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2005-12-24 20:27
This may perhaps be nothing more than a shameless bump to the head of the "Latest Topics" list, but I would appreciate more comments about this subject. If there are any left to give, that is.
Share your pennies, will you?
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Bash
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 04, 2005
Posts: 365
| Posted: 2005-12-24 20:52
I like your idea about a ware house but a ware should hold all the material so adding a new way of building would be better.But the bomber whores would just used that to gain even better prestige then before and make the preson who build that planet mad has hell if it get's nuked. Which leads me to the nexts thing making the weapon defences on a planet better so not only ship should be trying to bomb a planet.Make the sensors on the planet better so that 4 ecm's would not hide a player's ship unless you have alot of other players using ecm to help with the bombing.i have a idea of my self to add a AI transport ship that transport material to a planet with a statport so material's could be send more directly.
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2005-12-24 21:02
I don't like the warehouse idea because, like it has been pointed out, it collects the resources into an even more convenient area - I can assume that there would be structures placed all over the planet that would store the resources (and we just don't see them). If targeted bombing mattered, I could imagine particularly malicious people targeting just the resources on a planet - which, given the art of war, is fine, but if everyone does it, we'll be following Antdizzle's dream of "having peace in the MetaVerse". Because, with frigates, there isn't going to be that much intense action.
And, Bash, while I appreciate the reply, what you've said about needing to upgrade the defence bases to better respond to bombs doesn't address the mission I had initially started out with - I wanted to hear opinions about what people thought on MIRV bombs destroying resources. However, I will address your AI transport note - that was done in the past, and was taken out (at least partly, if not entirely) due to the fact that people were using it to farm prestige - whenever the AI transports would appear at the planets, the enemy would fry them within seconds. While assaulting a planet, killing the transports falls within reason, but camping around, not capturing a planet just to kill the transports was a gross violation of the RoC.
Are there any more comments related to my initial idea?
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Nimitz
Fleet Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: April 19, 2005
Posts: 141
From: Melbourne, Australia
| Posted: 2005-12-25 01:12
I must say it doesn't sound very appealing to me. As stated by Dom700, you'd just bomb every SY planet and then MV will become another newbie server. Then what would be the use of ranks? All you'd need are the lower class ships because that's all you'll be able to get since you'll constantly be occupied mining or transporting resources if you don't succeed in protecting your planet from those pecky bombers.
Even if they only bomb SY planet, what if the original owner of the planet decides to build their SY on another planet. Then that planet will get wiped...and so on like a chain reaction.
Also, what happens if a faction is devastated and has no SY left? The other two still do and how would an extrator/transport survive against the larger ships? Even frigs will be able to kill them!
Your idea of putting a limit to the amount of resources lost balances it out a bit but how much loss is appropriate? Building and transferring resources already slow down this game...any more and this game would just get boring and people will leave, starting with the experienced/higher-ranked ones.
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TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2005-12-25 01:35
i am basicly leaving the game anyway due to the fact of bomber whores i know it doesn't mean much in the admiral server but whenever i try and build up a planet no matter if it has 1 lvl 1 def base on it or 16 lvl 3 def bases on them they all die the same way with one bomber frig.... no supply no help nothing...
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-12-25 02:51
Now this could work.
Sorta.
But you have to bear with me.
This does make sense to make it so that mirvs kick resources arse, and it makes more sense because it brings an interesting tactical use to them.
Just one problem.
Its so bloody easy to nuke planets.
So.
I suggest that once to fix the abominable power they have right now, this would be a very worthy suggestion.
Other than that, it falls short of just making MirVs that much more uber.
-Ent
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Grimith
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 09, 2003
Posts: 836
From: Your local future farm.
| Posted: 2005-12-26 06:36
Perhaps my attempt to make the game more realistic to match the incredible power of MIRV bombs these days ended with failure - although, given the power of the bombs these days as opposed to earlier versions, I can't blame anyone for opposing the idea. Still, I was hoping for a more realistic approach... and, since the bombs do destroy stuff on the planet, I was thinking resources should fall into that category. Unfortunately, the cons of it may be... turning the MetaVerse into a newbie server. As opposed to cases in the past "in the real world" where people nuke stuff just so they can take it easier, why bother with taking it, here? The planets would be even more pitiful than they already are... and... in retrospect, perhaps I wasn't suggesting the best idea.
Still, it does seem logical for resources to be destroyed along with these bombs... but then I'd have to add a "who cares about making planets good" factor... Curses. And I suppose not having the resources destroyed by bombs is as logical as only flying in 2D in DarkSpace (which I'm very thankful for, considering that anything more than a flat surface gets me very disorientated).
I suppose what would have to wait for this idea to have any chance of implementation is the reduction of MIRV power, as Enterprise said... maybe at least to the 1.480 level, when you had to target structures and couldn't just click on a planet and press B, B, B with as much success (if any). I must admit, it seems as if only planets with shield generators and pulse beams to fire through defence bases (ICC tech) seem to have any chance at all against MIRVs. For the rest... a few hits and that planet goes up in smoke.
I guess I still wanted to believe that my idea would have success, despite that fact. I was hoping that the destruction of some resources per bomb would add further cons to using MIRVs, but... well... perhaps in a more realistic situation. Until such time as this idea would have better use, I'm using my abilities as Gravedigger to shovel this idea into the ground.
And, now, back to the drawing board. I'll surely come up with new ideas while I'm building... and building... and building......
[ This Message was edited by: Grimith on 2005-12-26 06:41 ]
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TroyMars
Chief Marshal
T-Roy! and Friends
Joined: July 05, 2005
Posts: 267
| Posted: 2005-12-26 10:39
on a side note at the last of your statment you said "and building..... and building..... and building" you really like to build dont you...
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