| Author |
Your Vision of ship setups? |
Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
|  Posted: 2005-07-31 10:44
Hi there.
Here are my thoughts about ships. Feel free to add your thoughts.
Maybee the devs will find some ideas they like to add.
1.) i'm classifing all ships into 3 "types". The type has effects the following hings:
Armor setup, Turnrates, weapon setups (especialy ranges)
General battleships - meant for general allround combat and meant for charging directly into a enemy position
Assaultships - meant for delivering destructive barrages of LR Weapons and standard torpdoes and nailing faster enemyships with an array of mid ranged cannons. Specialized in fire support, assault ships are the damage dealers that lack the ability for short ranged combat.
Utility ships - Specialized ships: Carriers, missile boats, bomers etc.
Second:
There are 3 Threat ranges for Weapons:
Long Range, Medium Range Short range.
3.) "New" weapons
In fact i will suggest only 2 types of new weapons:
Long range Torpedos: (ICC/UGTO)
These types of torps do have a minimum range of 800 Gu, and a maximum Range of around 2000 GU.
These Torpedoes have no tracking and chainfire 6 Torpedos (like a parcticle Cannon). The damage per shot is similar to the damage of an standard torpedo (multiplied x 6 if all do hit).
The torpedos have a second "ability": after leaving the 400 gu minimum range they speed up. after around 1200 GU the torpedos will reach their max speed (about triple their standard cousins speed)
Shock Disruptor:
This type disruptor does have a minimum range of 800 Gu, and a maximum Range of around 2000 GU.
its strenght is about 2 times the strength of a disruptor assault, but the damage is delivered in a short-lifetime beam, minimizing the time for the enemy to get away or turn. Since its a beam it also is instant hit.
4.) Weapons and minimal ranges:
all weapons should get minimum ranges, kept lasers. (yes, ruptors should have a minimum range)
for example:
ruptors/cannons: 50 gu min range
standard torpedoes: 100 gu min range
of course missiles will have min ranges too, but therer will be types for every threat range
Ship setups (general ability and purpose list)
General Battleships:
They come equipped with equal armor on all arcs.
The Turnrates ofthese ships is similar to that of an ship one class lower than theirs.
For example the general battledestroyer will turn like a frig, the battle frig like a scout, the battlecruiser (or heavy) will turn like a destroyer, the battledread (or combat for that matter) will turn like a cruiser, the battlestation will turn like a dread.
The weapons consist of an heavy array of Medium and Close range weapons.
example: Dread: ~5-7 standard torpedoes (general arc setup: 3 all around, the other fore/left right), ~20 Cannons/lasers (half of em full arcs), +5-6 heavy lasers (all full arcs).
Agenda:
Its all about turning the right armor at the enemy at the right time, wear them down with your hevy array of close range and medium range weapons. Use the high turn rates to divert damage taken to your armor/shilds to several arcs or outright dodge fire.
Assaultships have obcenly strong Front and very stong left/right armors but weak rear armor and have a heavy array of long range torepedoes, deadly array of medium weapons and a rather rudimentary short range weaponary.
(their turnrates stay the way they are now)
example: Dread: ~6-8 LR Torpedoes/shockruptors (front arcs), Core Weapon (front arc), ~25 Cannons (port/starbord/front arcs, no rear), ~8-12 Standard torpedoes (port/starbord/front arcs, no rear), ~3-4 lasers for point defense (youl need ascorts anyway)
Agenda: If the target survives the barrage of long range an medium range weapon and manages to get into the range only short range weapons are available your about to get pawned. (means you need escorts, since ships WILL survive your barrages). Bright side the medal: Your array of long range weapons will make camping planets for the enemy much more difficult.
Utility ships:
in the essence: the stay the way they are kept for interdictor cruisers:
Ship mountet Interdictor:
the ship mountet dictor will have 2 effects:
1. Instead or area effect JD disbling capability, the dictor is now modified tractor beam with around 1000 gu range: instead if slowing you down or pulling/pushing you around the beam will simply disable your jumpdrive.
The cruiser can jam up to 4 targets at once.
2.) prohibits jumps into the dictor field (has no effect if you want to jump out.)
It only works that one time to stop enemys to direclty jump you. as soon as they are in the field they can jump again (even towards you now) as long as they are not jammed.
in essence the 2 basic functions are stil available: stops ememys close jumpng your long range ships and second is to stop enemys from escaping.
Only planetary dictors will have the "old" dictor field, since planets have far more powerfull interdictor devices.
Thats in the essence how id like the game to be.
I know the dictor part is difficult to do, but hey, the current dictors are a tad bit to powerfull.
[small][ This Message was edited by: EADalltorpsfrntplz on 2005-07-31 18:49 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: EADalltorpsfrntplz on 2005-07-31 22:51 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-31 11:33
[quote]
On 2005-07-31 10:44, EADalltorpsfrntplz wrote:
Hi there.
1.) i'm classifing all ships into 3 "types". The type has effects the following hings:
Armor setup, Turnrates, weapon setups (especialy ranges)
General battleships - meant for general allround combat
Assaultships - meant for charging directly into a enemy position
Utility ships - Specialized ships: Carriers, missile boats, bomers etc.
Second:
There are 3 Threat ranges for Weapons:
Long Range, Medium Range Short range.
Quote:
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3.) "New" weapons
In fact i will suggest only 2 types of new weapons:
Long range Torpedos: (ICC/UGTO)
These types of torps do have a minimum range of 800 Gu, and a maximum Range of around 2000 GU.
These Torpedoes have no tracking and chainfire 6 Torpedos (like a parcticle Cannon). The damage per shot is similar to the damage of an standard torpedo (multiplied x 6 if all do hit).
The torpedos have a second "ability": after leaving the 400 gu minimum range they speed up. after around 1200 GU the torpedos will reach their max speed (about triple their standard cousins speed)
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The concept is good, except each salvo should be one per shot, instead of six, with an increased damage at longer range.
Quote:
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Shock Disruptor:
This type disruptor does have a minimum range of 800*[corrected] Gu, and a maximum Range of around 2000 GU.
its strenght is about 2 times the strength of a disruptor assault, but the damage is delivered in a short-lifetime beam, minimizing the time for the enemy to get away or turn. Since its a beam it also is instant hit.
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It should also have a long recharge rate/high energy drain...its range seems a bit high for a beam though, maybe a burst laser cannon? (like, you fire a "pulse" of a laser, that travels fast.)
Quote:
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4.) Weapons and minimal ranges:
all weapons should get minimum ranges, kept lasers. (yes, ruptors should have a minimum range)
for example:
ruptors/cannons: 50 gu min range
standard torpedoes: 100 gu min range
of course missiles will have min ranges too, but therer will be types for every threat range
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Also a good idea, and the ranges for missiles are already in place...
Quote:
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Ship setups (general ability and purpose list)
General Battleships:
They come equipped with equal armor on all arcs.
The Turnrates ofthese ships is similar to that of an ship one class lower than theirs.
For example the general battledestroyer will turn like a frig, the battle frig like a scout, the battlecruiser (or heavy) will turn like a destroyer, the battledread (or combat for that matter) will turn like a cruiser, the battlestation will turn like a dread.
The weapons consist of an heavy array of Medium and Close range weapons.
example: Dread: ~5-7 standard torpedoes (general arc setup: 3 all around, the other fore/left right), ~20 Cannons/lasers (half of em full arcs), +5-6 heavy lasers (all full arcs).
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A.) Turnrates are a big no, bigger ships are supposed to be slow in turning, and it should stay that way.
B.)Ships of this type should consist more of medium and long range weaponry, and some, but not much short range.
Quote:
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Agenda:
Its all about turning the right armor at the enemy at the right time, wear them down with your hevy array of close range and medium range weapons. Use the high turn rates to divert damage taken to your armor/shilds to several arcs or outright dodge fire.
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This seems more prone to assault ships...
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Assaultships have obcenly strong Front and very stong left/right armors but weak rear armor and have a heavy array of long range torepedoes, deadly array of medium weapons and a rather rudimentary short range weaponary.
(their turnrates stay the way they are now)
example: Dread: ~6-8 LR Torpedoes/shockruptors (front arcs), Core Weapon (front arc), ~25 Cannons (port/starbord/front arcs, no rear), ~8-12 Standard torpedoes (port/starbord/front arcs, no rear), ~3-4 lasers for point defense (youl need ascorts anyway)
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A.) Armor should be strong in the front, and equal on every other side.
B.) Assault ships are designed for close range combat, and should have an abundance of heavy lasers and torpedos. This is how they are, by design.
C.) All weapons have one of their arcs a fore, at least. Torpedos should be 75% Fore/Right /Left. The other straight fore. The opposite for the lasers which would be 25% fore/right/left, the rest straight Fore.
Quote:
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Agenda: If the target survives the barrage of long range an medium range weapon and manages to get into the range only short range weapons are available your about to get pawned. (means you need escorts, since ships WILL survive your barrages). Bright side the medal: Your array of long range weapons will make camping planets for the enemy much more difficult.
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One word : Core weapon.
Quote:
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Utility ships:
in the essence: the stay the way they are kept for interdictor cruisers:
Ship mountet Interdictor:
the ship mountet dictor will have 2 effects:
1. Instead or area effect JD disbling capability, the dictor is now modified tractor beam with around 1000 gu range: instead if slowing you down or pulling/pushing you around the beam will simply disable your jumpdrive.
The cruiser can jam up to 4 targets at once.
2.) prohibits jumps into the dictor field (has no effect if you want to jump out.)
It only works that one time to stop enemys to direclty jump you. as soon as they are in the field they can jump again (even towards you now) as long as they are not jammed.
in essence the 2 basic functions are stil available: stops ememys close jumpng your long range ships and second is to stop enemys from escaping.
Only planetary dictors will have the "old" dictor field, since planets have far more powerfull interdictor devices.
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Perfect idea for interdiction...
I have also been, for the past few days, working on my own balence ideas in a notepad document, and ill post what I have at some other point [random plug]
-Ent
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-31 14:16
Concerning the assault ships:
Theyre old role of "closing in and beat you dead" is now given to the general battleships (they stil should have highrer turnrates imho)
their pupose is to outmaneuver other ships, for example the assault types.
The "new" assault ships are plattforms for obcene amount of long range and medium range weapons, give them time to get in position and take aim and your about to get butchered.
In my little world the assault shipsa are meant to break enemy formations and to subdue them at mid/long range. They are not meant for close range saber dances (thats the general battleships role).
Bottom line: once you get past the assault ships heavy artilery, its kind of defenseles, only having a small array of short range weapons, even though those are powerfull enough to subdue you over time, it might still be more efficient to leave the enemys that got past your barrage to your team mates and focus your array of long range/mid range weapons onto a new targets.
The LR torpedoes have multiple shots to compensate for the fact they have no tracking, thus can be dodged.
Another thing is they are meant to do damage, and 6 time the damage of an standard torp IS damage. I for example like to have the damage delivered in several small portions rather than one big shot. the chances of hitting something with multishot weapons is higher ^^. Increased damage at longer range is a nice add nontheless.
The shock disruptor has, compares to the LR torps less fire power but compensates for this with instant undodgeable hit and very short beam life tme (damage delivered faster, so enemy can't turn another arc towards you. And a cdeloacked ship likes to have the damage delivered fast so it can recloack.
The range is a simple matter of fairplay and needs to be adjustet after testing it together with cloack and cloack tactics.
"It should also have a long recharge rate/high energy drain"
I dont know the numers so i simply cant add any viable stats.
If its long recharging the damage has to be upped, the LR torpedoes are meant for "shelling" targets like a battle ship (just with faster rate of fire ^^) while the shock ruptor is meant for delivering THAT one powerfull blow then get away before the counter fire arrives (since that will hurt you. In head to head combat the human assault ships will be at an advantage. Kluth will need to utilize their cloack to avoid those situations. (and in big battles this will be HARD enough already.)
there also needs to be an assault ship for every class. assault cruiser for example would be a smaller version with less power full weapons than an assault dread but stil lenough to dmoninate other criusers at mid/long rang and to engage dreads in teams.
[small][ This Message was edited by: EADalltorpsfrntplz on 2005-07-31 14:38 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: EADalltorpsfrntplz on 2005-07-31 18:50 ]
_________________
- In firepower we trust.
- I'm not buying this!
-we ran out of firepower.
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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
| Posted: 2005-07-31 15:23
how bout instead of shock disrupter, make it Shock Torpedo, with a high energy drain and no ammo  , and Disrupter cannons similar to PSI but Yellow
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-31 18:48
because i want to sit at em lobsters firing that into my 4 reflective armo...
woops wrong line.. *cough*
in fact i wantet something different for kluth and since their main damage are ruptors, i though that would work.
_________________
- In firepower we trust.
- I'm not buying this!
-we ran out of firepower.
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Binks
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 469
| Posted: 2005-07-31 21:14
Quote:
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On 2005-07-31 10:44, EADalltorpsfrntplz wrote:
Hi there.
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Hi...
Quote:
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1.) i'm classifing all ships into 3 "types". The type has effects the following hings:
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I'm fine with your classification, just seems like later you reverse battleship and assault...
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Second: There are 3 Threat ranges for Weapons:
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Again, good idea...though it's pretty much already done that way...
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3.) "New" weapons
Long range Torpedos: (ICC/UGTO)
Shock Disruptor:
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I like the LR torps a little, but I'd personally perfer something like the Steamrunner class ships weapon in ST Armada 2...I like the chain-fire, but the torps should start off at full dmg and speed and have a long minimum range...say 5K gu max and 1K gu min...I dislike the shock though, I feel a better idea would be to give them a Cloak Torpedo which would basicly have a huge negative sig when spawned and only become visible within 100gu, it should do around 1/2 the dmg of all 6 LR's hitting but track...just what I think though...
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4.) Weapons and minimal ranges:
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Meh...I really like firing from under a target, but I can understand how this would make sense...but why ruptors and not lasers?
ruptors/cannons: 50 gu min range
standard torpedoes: 100 gu min range
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General Battleships:
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Here's where I feel you mixed something up. This ship sounds like an Assault ship and the Assault sounds like this...I'm also against shortening turning radius's in any circumstance...not like they're gonna have better thrusters or be less massive...
Sounds more like an Assault ship's agenda to me...
I feel these should be the close range ships, and battleships should get the LR's etc...I mean, battleships are the bombarders and assault dessies are the ships that get inside other ships firing ranges, not the other way around...
Sounds more like a battleship's agenda to me...
I like that dictor idea a lot...would probably be a lot of work to program though...
[ This Message was edited by: Binks(Give Midshipmen Sup/Engy) on 2005-07-31 23:02 ]
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-31 22:47
Lasers have no min range because they are meant for short range combat.
Disruptors to have a range limit because the do not have a damage decrease with range like lasers but have instant hit and tracking like lasers.
a lil disadvantage that will also force kluth to
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1.) i'm classifing all ships into 3 "types". The type has effects the following hings:
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I'm fine with your classification, just seems like later you reverse battleship and assault...
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forgot to edit that. sorry ^^
thx for pinting it out.
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Second: There are 3 Threat ranges for Weapons:
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Again, good idea...though it's pretty much already done that way... |
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Now, not realy. we have an half assed excuse for range limits.
Nearly all weapons, from cannons over torpedoes to ruptors dont have minimum ranges, and thusare useable at all distances (so you cant have ships with weakneasses like "no short range capabilitys")
Take the Particle cannon for example: 3k max range, NO min range making it a long range weapn/med range weapin/ short range weapon all in one.
With things like this youl never have threat ranges, ranges some ships are simply better than others.
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Meh...I really like firing from under a target, but I can understand how this would make sense...but why ruptors and not lasers?
ruptors/cannons: 50 gu min range
standard torpedoes: 100 gu min range |
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Well, the threat range system simply wont work without minimum ranges ^^
And for close combat you can use lasers or cannons with low max range [~50-100 gu] but no min range. (general battleships should have the option to trade medium range/short range firepower for each other via modding. Assault ships are rather limitet in that regard)
Since its clear we kind of dis agree with the roles of general battleships and Assault ships (question of personal view) we should avoid that topic, since we will probably only repeat ourselves ^^.
_________________
- In firepower we trust.
- I'm not buying this!
-we ran out of firepower.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-07-31 23:15
I know this is probably getting a bit off topic but as the Thread Says what do you vision for ship set ups..
And Lately ive been playin alot of HW2 (homeworld2 using the Point Defense system Mod)
To tell ya the truth I would like to see Their Take on DarkSpace.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-08-01 00:38
A darkspace mod for HW2? give us the models, it would take maybe a month.
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