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The deal with core weapons. |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2005-07-23 21:26
QST:
High energy usage.
Large AOE (Area of effect)
Low direct damage
IC:
Medium energy usage.
Medium AOE
Medium direct damage (does systems damage aswell).
SI:
Low energy usage.
Small AOE
High direct damage
Now. Pair this with the ships. You get some interesting results
Notice the QST has high energy usage?
EAD has 3 reactor slots (possible)
Notice the IC has a medium energy usage?
AD has 5 reactor slots (possible)
Notice the SI has low energy usage?
Siphon has 6 reactor slots (possible).
What does this all mean?
QST, although a better one shot weapon to spread them, means the EAD has to slow right down, and recharge its energy. Meaning this is better before the assualt on planets, or when the fleets retreating.
IC, all rounder really, can sometimes use it in battle, with a mix of QST and SI tactics.
SI, you can use this to do whatever with 6 reactors on the siphon. That baby can run all day, full speed, AND recharge the SI. Making it the perfect hit and run weapon.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:34
Exactly. Whoever said the SI is lousy is plain wrong. A level 10 SI is very deadly in direct ship to ship combat. The qst is best for planet standoffs, and downright deadly when used vs Kluth around a planet.
Now, as far core weapon stations, they have different energy recharge rates right? As much as an EAD can't use qst very often, I bet a battle station can. Same for ICC and Kluth. They can probably use their core weapons nonstop.
These weapons are incredibly deadly vs small ships. I'm not sure that's a good thing especially for lower ranked players in the MV. They're meant, I believe, for a MV populated with big ships. At least that's what the testing me and Jack did made me conclude. They do immense damage to smaller ships and can destroy them in 1 hit. But to bigger ships like dreads they don't do as much. They don't even do much damage to armor.
They may not be a great idea for the MV if we're gonna force our lower levels to play there in their smaller ships.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2005-07-23 21:35 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:42
Quote:
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On 2005-07-23 21:34, MrSparkle wrote:
Same for ICC and Kluth. They can probably use their core weapons nonstop.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2005-07-23 21:35 ]
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Wrong. An SI has the ability to suck almost every drop of energy even if it is all that is recharging. two shots with it and you are out of energy.
And honestly, unless there is a bug in enemy ship damage notifications, it ain't much of a trade off damage to energy wise. I seldom see more than 20 armor points tick off when they hit. WHEN they hit. They are slow, and have near nill slpash damage.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:47
You just got proven wrong.
We tested it, both level 0 and level 10 versions of all weapons, against kluth. SI does the most damage of ALL core weapons on direct impact. It also has the most damaging splash, but has a reduced range of 250gu at L10.
Plus, I dont know what your trying to pull, but the Siphon can gain power whilst recharging the SI. It has 6 reactor slots.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-23 21:48 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:51
Backslash was regaining energy as he was flying around recharging his level 10 SI. I gotta tell ya, that's a sweet weapon. QST has a much greater splash radius but SI is what you want to use if you're in ship vs ship combat.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-23 21:55
Not to mention the Siphon comes with two ELF beams aswell, making it for a deadly ship to use.
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-07-23 23:43
And this post I assume , given backslashes propensity for advocating UGTO concerns is perhaps in response to some perceived threat to the QST.The spash radius for the QST needs to be reduced I watched a station continually pop a kluth engie...again and again even though the engie was on the other side of the planet from the enemy firing it.One shot kills again and again.The engie even tried to cloak...but the station knew he was there and fired at the planet...boom dead engie again.
As for the number of reactor slots possible...most energy comes from upgraded drives anyway, aux gens make very little power.
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unknown force
Cadet
Joined: September 27, 2002
Posts: 69
| Posted: 2005-07-24 01:59
I have very limited experience with the EAD QST and Assault Dread Ion cannon so I am not really commenting on those, but I do want to share that while in a kluth nest, I fired THREE level 10 Incinerators at once at a distance of about 120 gu away at a damaged completely still ICC missile dread facing me and attacking me and only saw about 12 points of hull damage give or take a few points. This was after an alpha from my nest (minus the SIs) from myself and another nearby kluth ship on an already hull damaged ship. In my opinion that is not very powerful at all considering cost, energy usage and recharge time for level 10 core weapons. I don't know if that is the intended design or if there is something more amiss here
[ This Message was edited by: unknown force on 2005-07-24 05:58 ]
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-24 03:53
tetsing si against kluth organic armor dont prove a thing
other than we dont have 3 diffrent kinds of armor or shilds to select from
any core weapon penetrate the kluth organic armor even at lvl 10
if you want to test you need to test against activeshilds and / or + ablavtive and/or lvl 10 standard armor
see what good that do 
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-24 05:15
would you people PLEASE stop babbling about money?
since youre not loosing cash anymore through dying, the whole money-zime-sink issue is history. you mine your 20 mil ONCE and that lasts virtualy forever.
The MV reset sure helped to get Ressource prices up.
if you reduce the splash radius of the qst, you need to increase increase the damage.
Getting rid of supplys around stations in your daily station vs station standoff is the only true purpose of the qst, because is utterly useless againast anything bigger that a frigate.
I will not comment about SI or the Ion cannon, since i do not play ICC or Klut that much, but ill say this about the qst:
It costs us a lot of energy to charge that thing up, additionaly, the EAD got crippled as Combat ship.
So, Nerv the QST, k, but youl either have to increase its direct damage, thus making it another SI, or beef up the EAD to its former glory: a ship the enemy actualy doesn't laugh about. (id trade the qst for that)
[ This Message was edited by: PutEADRearTorpsToFrontPlease on 2005-07-24 05:21 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-24 09:27
Quote:
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On 2005-07-23 23:43, General Grievous wrote:
As for the number of reactor slots possible...most energy comes from upgraded drives anyway, aux gens make very little power.
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Actualy it adds quiet a bit of + energy p/s.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-24 11:23
No Grievous.
Lol for one, that was ME in the engineer ship continuously being destroyed by QST. I figured staying on the other side of the planet while he fires at it would keep me out of it's splash range. But it didn't and I was confused as to why.
So me and Backslash went to a private server to test these weapons. I flew a Kluth engineer the whole time seeing as that was the ship was being destroyed all the time in 1 hit (actually 3 qsts all at once)
Conclusions were exactly what I thought for QST, but surprising for SI.
QST has an incredible splash radius. I was 400gu away from the center of Yoth every time I got killed (purposely out of orbit range and range to do any engineering btw), and QST fired at the planet still killed me. The damage drops off considerably the farther away from the blast you are, but apparently I was still close enough to be destroyed. This was a battle station doing it, not an EAD, so it was 3 level 10 QST all at once. Even 1 level 10 QST was nearly destroying me in the tests except at the far limits of the splash radius. I still don't agree with that kind of splash damage in that large a radius, but at least I now know that it's not an error and I need to stay even farther away from planets to be safe.
SI on the other had we were both surprised at. SI does amazing damage. Much more than QST. It's splash radius seems fixed at 250gu but anyone in that radius is gonna take a lot of damage. It also uses MUCH less energy. Here I was, thinking SI was crap because everyone was saying it was, and it's being proven utterly wrong right before my eyes. SI is an amazing weapon. If Kluth had more FA's and higher I think we'd actually realize this (we don't have nearly enough high ranks).
Both QST and SI didn't do near the same damage to both out dreads. SI did more with a direct hit, but it still didn't punch through armor enough to damage our hulls.
So I personally concluded that these core weapons are too powerful overall.
**I will emphasize this. They are too powerful overall**
Not sure what Backslash thinks about this, but I think it's detrimental to the MV. These weapons are clearly designed with an MV populated by large ships in mind. Lower ranks who can't fly ships large enough to survive one hit by these weapons may and probably will get completely frustrated. They're already frustrated.
My suggestion for them: If a system can't be figured out to keep these weapons from destroying smaller ships in 1 hit and yet still be a good weapon for use in dread vs dread or cruiser combat, then remove them altogether. If we're gonna force lower ranks to play in the MV, we don't want them becoming even easier cannon fodder than they already are.
For example, any lower rank playing as Kluth and flying a destroyer or supply has a good chance of being destroyed by a QST that was launched nowhere near him. What's that lower rank gonna think? What are they already thinking with 1.483?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-24 11:28
And actually Ragg, testing these weapons on Kluth just proves that they are a lot more fragile than many people originally thought  These weapons do insane damage to Kluth and not much to ICC or UGTO. So they're a much bigger advantage for humans than they are for Kluth.
See, as a Kluth, we have no real targets for our SI. But both human factions have at least one nice juicy target for their core weapons: Kluth. And they don't even have to aim them. Just launch them at planets or detonate them in deep space and watch the death spam start rolling in.
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Jack 2.0
Cadet
Joined: January 07, 2004
Posts: 55
| Posted: 2005-07-24 11:47
I never liked the core weapons.
QST = death to newbies
IC = annoying to everyone
SI = SHIFT + H, SHIFT + H, SHIFT + H
Just a pain overall to balance against.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-24 12:55
^ = Me.
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