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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
|  Posted: 2011-03-08 08:53
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On 2011-03-07 21:04, jamesbob wrote:
yeah well unfortunately they extremely nerfed sensors.
eccm only works in a 400 gu radius instead of a 1k gu radius with fall off the further out said target is (unless you got about 9 eccms running at once)
but the eccm i mean why bother reducing to a 400 gu radius when a lot of kluth start firing all their non energy wasting weapons anyway and start to close the gap chewing the armor and shields anyway.
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which is a good thing, seeing how we are supose to cloak and dagger factation. you shouldn't be detecting us and weaking us before we can do our first strike. i feel the ping should more of after the fact ability once we give our selves away you should be able to ping us out then attack us as we are running back to set up another attack.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-08 08:54
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On 2011-03-07 21:46, *OmniVore* wrote:
You guys need to stop defending the imbalances of this game please, i know there has to be some variety but they should have the same amount of weapons and defenses and scanning abilties.
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why should every ship be the same. if thats the case we should all just fly ugto dreds with different colors.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-08 08:58
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On 2011-03-08 08:41, Fatal Perihelion wrote:
ICC is not just a range faction, we have assault ships right?
Assault Dreadnoughts for example are a good weapon vs Kluth if the ADs just stay close together and jump together.Kluth will not die easy without beacon, but ADs wont die fast either, if they pack.
To topic: My scanner is still working 
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icc ADs flying in tight formation is a tough nut to crack for luth ships. since icc have tha ability to redirect shield power to the arc thats taking fire. if yall are close in it makes it hard to hit other arcs which would equal an icc win.
now with ugto ead's they do better waiting for luth to uncloak, point jumping and picking off an armor arc on a luth then letting loose there beams at ranges of 100 gu or less. trust me human beams HURT.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-03-08 09:36
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On 2011-03-08 00:27, Kaepora wrote:
"Oh oh, weak armor" is what K'luth players say . Keep in mind it repairs insanely fast at no cost, even while cloaked. Over the course of a battle, the total armor HP consumed/Regened is much much higher for K'luth. Meaning they've absorbed more damage than anyone else. What's taken away is very quickly replaced.
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Armor doesn't repair that quickly (it's not like it's instant), and if you have hull damage to your ship you *need* a resupply like other factions (which happens 99% of the time because of the weak "burst" damage armor K'luth have)
Having weaker armor means K'luth can't sustain a fight for long. Every k'luth strategy is "get in, do a bunch of damage, get out and survive and heal up for 5 minutes. Hopefully we killed something". Theirs no long term sustainability for strategic engagements, it's all relient upon doing damage and stopping an oponnent so they have to heal up. Rinse, repeat.
I think the largest problem is that people use the same tactics against K'luth as they use against non-cloaking races and wonder why they are losing.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-08 11:18
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On 2011-03-08 09:36, Fattierob wrote:
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On 2011-03-08 00:27, Kaepora wrote:
"Oh oh, weak armor" is what K'luth players say . Keep in mind it repairs insanely fast at no cost, even while cloaked. Over the course of a battle, the total armor HP consumed/Regened is much much higher for K'luth. Meaning they've absorbed more damage than anyone else. What's taken away is very quickly replaced.
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Armor doesn't repair that quickly (it's not like it's instant), and if you have hull damage to your ship you *need* a resupply like other factions (which happens 99% of the time because of the weak "burst" damage armor K'luth have)
Having weaker armor means K'luth can't sustain a fight for long. Every k'luth strategy is "get in, do a bunch of damage, get out and survive and heal up for 5 minutes. Hopefully we killed something". Theirs no long term sustainability for strategic engagements, it's all relient upon doing damage and stopping an oponnent so they have to heal up. Rinse, repeat.
I think the largest problem is that people use the same tactics against K'luth as they use against non-cloaking races and wonder why they are losing.
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well said.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-03-08 11:54
I didn't mean every ship be the same i mean they all should have the same number of components i am sure different weapon load-outs could make a variety of ships.
for example
all ships across all factions separated by role should have the same number of weapon slots, sensor slots, and component slots you can then vary the weapons as to create weaknesses and strengths.
right now inorder to make one faction stronger than the other ships of the same Tier have more weapons over their rivals.
this game is old and tired it needs some variety that doesn't imbalance the game
also i know the K'luth are supposed to be a cloak and dagger faction but they can be that with out a cloaking device or keep the cloak and make their ships faster but less powerful i know the kluth can't tank but if you can offer more firepower than the crappy armor argument is mute.
this game would be funner if there was something to else to do but the same stuff since forever.
[ This Message was edited by: *OmniVore* on 2011-03-08 11:57 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-03-08 12:03
Omni, arguing for the removal of cloak is like talking to a brick wall. The only thing you're going to do is waste your own time.
Now, if you want to add ways of tweaking cloak that you would believe would balance things, then by all means go ahead.
I'm just saying that the odds of K'luth cloak ever being removed is lower then the odds of most lotteries, in my opinion.
I speak as a player for this, not as a dev
As for "doing the same thing over and over again", What suggestions do you have that could change what you believe is occuring again and again? Do you mean shooting spaceships? Well, sorry, this is a spaceship shooting game. If you want a hotdog don't go looking for a hamburger, or such.
[ This Message was edited by: Fattierob on 2011-03-08 12:04 ]
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2011-03-08 13:46
Its funny to watch..as long as your winning, you aint whining, but as soon as your losing, the whining explodes...
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Kaepora
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 08, 2011
Posts: 77
| Posted: 2011-03-08 15:09
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On 2011-03-08 09:36, Fattierob wrote:
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On 2011-03-08 00:27, Kaepora wrote:
"Oh oh, weak armor" is what K'luth players say . Keep in mind it repairs insanely fast at no cost, even while cloaked. Over the course of a battle, the total armor HP consumed/Regened is much much higher for K'luth. Meaning they've absorbed more damage than anyone else. What's taken away is very quickly replaced.
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Armor doesn't repair that quickly (it's not like it's instant), and if you have hull damage to your ship you *need* a resupply like other factions (which happens 99% of the time because of the weak "burst" damage armor K'luth have)
Having weaker armor means K'luth can't sustain a fight for long. Every k'luth strategy is "get in, do a bunch of damage, get out and survive and heal up for 5 minutes. Hopefully we killed something". Theirs no long term sustainability for strategic engagements, it's all relient upon doing damage and stopping an oponnent so they have to heal up. Rinse, repeat.
I think the largest problem is that people use the same tactics against K'luth as they use against non-cloaking races and wonder why they are losing.
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The thing is, it's not "heal up for 5 minutes" it's heal up for 2 minutes. UGTO's natural armor regen is nil, and ICC has to use defense mode, which requires massive amounts of energy. Plus the only decent ship ICC have is the AD, which is already an energy hog.
If K'luth have a single platform or planet in a system, they have unlimited sustainability. As long as you have AHR, you can repair fast. Uncloak, do massive damage, recloak using all of your armored sides as cover till your hidden, then do it again 2 minutes later. UGTO can't keep up with that repair rate without stations, and ICC can't do it without superior numbers (to disuade multiple attacks on the same target) .
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-08 16:35
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On 2011-03-08 15:09, Kaepora wrote:
The thing is, it's not "heal up for 5 minutes" it's heal up for 2 minutes. UGTO's natural armor regen is nil, and ICC has to use defense mode, which requires massive amounts of energy. Plus the only decent ship ICC have is the AD, which is already an energy hog.
If K'luth have a single platform or planet in a system, they have unlimited sustainability. As long as you have AHR, you can repair fast. Uncloak, do massive damage, recloak using all of your armored sides as cover till your hidden, then do it again 2 minutes later. UGTO can't keep up with that repair rate without stations, and ICC can't do it without superior numbers (to disuade multiple attacks on the same target) .
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trust me as a luth that doesn't run to repair unless im really smoking its more then 2 mins to full recover hull to 100%. even longer to recover hull with AHR. now since you seem to be confused on how this game works let me school ya a bit. luth armor is by far the lowest hp of all3 facations. but it repairs the fastest, when we have hull damage. our ships have by defualt, 1 AHR and Chit armor. Chit armor is an extra layor of foil thats wraped around the hull on full arc that takes a bit extra damage before taking hull. from what i have noticed is that the Chit armor only kicks in when an arc's armor is at 0 then you burn thru Chit.
while if us luth have a platform in the system or that lucky luth worker that helps us doesn't give us an unfair advantage. since i feel that both human facations can and do, the same thing.
inreguards to the AD and it being a power hog. sorry to say learn to fly it better. first off don't mash the space bar. use the keybinds for your weaps. also when your not taking direct damage shut off your shields that will give you so much more power for weaps. since shields only need power to charge not to take damage. i will agree that vrs luth the AD is icc best option. if you don't have a AD use the AC and get behind a decloaked luth dread and rip it a new one.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-08 16:38
Quote:
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On 2011-03-08 11:54, *OmniVore* wrote:
I didn't mean every ship be the same i mean they all should have the same number of components i am sure different weapon load-outs could make a variety of ships.
for example
all ships across all factions separated by role should have the same number of weapon slots, sensor slots, and component slots you can then vary the weapons as to create weaknesses and strengths.
right now inorder to make one faction stronger than the other ships of the same Tier have more weapons over their rivals.
this game is old and tired it needs some variety that doesn't imbalance the game
also i know the K'luth are supposed to be a cloak and dagger faction but they can be that with out a cloaking device or keep the cloak and make their ships faster but less powerful i know the kluth can't tank but if you can offer more firepower than the crappy armor argument is mute.
this game would be funner if there was something to else to do but the same stuff since forever.
[ This Message was edited by: Borgie on 2011-03-08 17:38 ]
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again why should every ship have the same x amount of guns. its the difference in weapond counts per class and hull level that makes combat what is. yes luth can dish out more fire power per ship, but we can't take what we are dishing. i watched AD/EADs plow thru a luths armor on that arc hulling it before that luth hulled the other assualt dred. so please quit whining about luth cloak.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-03-08 19:10
Couple of points:
@Omni:
Kluth have more weapons because they fill the "insane dps that can be sustained for about 5 seconds" faction. All their ships are either beam or torpedo oriented. Thus they can be considered assault ships, and human assault ships have a similarly large amount of weapons. Also, 1 to 1 disruptors only win against cls at max range, and even then they consume more energy and have a longer cooldown.
@Kaepora
Show me the best assault ship in the game and I'll show you something that you can use against the kluth. Also, the AD has comparable energy capacity with Kluth ships, so it evens out. This is like giving a person a shotgun and a sniper and they complain they lack close range punch.
UGTO: Doesn't have great pd, can't cloak, short ranged. Use cannons/cores/missiles that outrange them.
Kluth: Short range, cloakable. Use your own close range ship for crying out loud.
Also, kluth armor doesn't repair fast at all. If they are repairing they are cloaked. Which means they aren't shooting. Which means you probably are staying on the battlefield for nothing. If you want to find out how fast ahr is, repair your dreadnaught solely with an alt account using a heavy supply ship.
In fact I am more successful at jumping an ICC cruiser out and using defense mode to repair back to a 100% shields. And it is really hard to get through the shields of a good HC pilot, the last time I went to the depot was for ammo.
In the parasite cruiser I take 5 minutes cloaked to get back to an acceptable hull ammount, only to be hulled and amost destroyed again by a Combat dread who thought it would be funny to hit me first instead of the kluth dreads around me.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-08 20:22
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On 2011-03-08 15:09, Kaepora wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-08 09:36, Fattierob wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-08 00:27, Kaepora wrote:
"Oh oh, weak armor" is what K'luth players say . Keep in mind it repairs insanely fast at no cost, even while cloaked. Over the course of a battle, the total armor HP consumed/Regened is much much higher for K'luth. Meaning they've absorbed more damage than anyone else. What's taken away is very quickly replaced.
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Armor doesn't repair that quickly (it's not like it's instant), and if you have hull damage to your ship you *need* a resupply like other factions (which happens 99% of the time because of the weak "burst" damage armor K'luth have)
Having weaker armor means K'luth can't sustain a fight for long. Every k'luth strategy is "get in, do a bunch of damage, get out and survive and heal up for 5 minutes. Hopefully we killed something". Theirs no long term sustainability for strategic engagements, it's all relient upon doing damage and stopping an oponnent so they have to heal up. Rinse, repeat.
I think the largest problem is that people use the same tactics against K'luth as they use against non-cloaking races and wonder why they are losing.
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The thing is, it's not "heal up for 5 minutes" it's heal up for 2 minutes. UGTO's natural armor regen is nil, and ICC has to use defense mode, which requires massive amounts of energy. Plus the only decent ship ICC have is the AD, which is already an energy hog.
If K'luth have a single platform or planet in a system, they have unlimited sustainability. As long as you have AHR, you can repair fast. Uncloak, do massive damage, recloak using all of your armored sides as cover till your hidden, then do it again 2 minutes later. UGTO can't keep up with that repair rate without stations, and ICC can't do it without superior numbers (to disuade multiple attacks on the same target) .
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In a dread, once you get hulled, then cloak/run. Your hull will still take a long time to heal on AHR alone. Sometimes up to 10 minutes... that is if you don't run out of AHR. AHR can't rep more than roughly 70% of a dread's hull on its own.
But yes, Kluth armor tends to rep fast. Not 2 minutes, definitely. 4 to 7 is a more realistic figure.
But even with 100% armor and 50% hull, we still can't sustain a second fight long before we have to break it off again. In short, our return/second strike will not have the impact of the first. A 100/50 Siphon will still not be able to kill a 60/60 EAD head on.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-08 20:45 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-03-08 21:15
Has gone way off topic, and if this isn't a troll, it's ridiculous. Hence...
Da hammer doth fall.
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