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Ranks? |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2011-02-28 18:35
Sorry Az, I have to go with Ent here.
How many times have I gotten into my Siphon, waited for a battle to start. Then I see this ICC dread and UGTO dread duking it out. I wait till the battle's midway and then jump in, full alpha on one of the dreads. He's trapped in the enemy's dico field.
BOOM. He dies, I get my pres. Then I get to work on the 2nd dread.... I hull him and he jumps out. Get jumped by another 2 of his buddies and a scout. Get tagged. They hunt me down. Boom I'm dead.
Hey!! I still gained pres. Maybe not 800 or 1000pres. But it is still positive. Maybe 50? Maybe 100+? Doesn't matter. It's positive.
1 for 1. I kill a dread, and get killed. I still get pres. Either gains are too high, or losses are not enough.
But gains have been nerfed repeatedly over the last few patches. But losses have not been buffed.
-1600 pres for dreads!
-3200 pres for stations!
Marshals and Chief Marshals can afford to throw away stations for some time before they start to see their pres drop. Then they'll think twice about playing recklessly.
But if this is what the Devs allow to happen (reckless, non-strategic playing) just because they're worried about a declining playerbase full of stations spammers, then we can't do anything about it.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-02-28 19:03 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-02-28 22:47
Quote:
| On 2011-02-28 18:35, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Hey!! I still gained pres. Maybe not 800 or 1000pres. But it is still positive. Maybe 50? Maybe 100+? Doesn't matter. It's positive.
1 for 1. I kill a dread, and get killed. I still get pres. Either gains are too high, or losses are not enough. |
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You make careless math.
When you kill a ship, you gain A prestige. When you are destoyed, you lose B prestige. Here both of him and you use the same class so A = B. You get positive prestige thanks to combat and jumping. Your prestige is negative if:
1/ You had captured him.
2/ He had SDed.
Raise prestige loss per death = Raise prestige gain per kill. You don't get true reward, it's actually an prestige transfer from player to player.
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Azure Prower
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2006
Posts: 309
| Posted: 2011-02-28 23:02
The biggest problem of prestige gains is depot planets.
For an hour spent exchanging fire at UGTO while we both sat at depot planets within firing range, I pretty much gained 5k pres just from that and no one dies.
Depot tanking has always been a problem and I'd say it's the source of the massive prestige gains because of how quickly you can repair ships and why dreads/stations are prevalent in DarkSpace.
If dreads and stations took longer to repair, they would be out of the action longer than say a cruiser.
[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare Reaper on 2011-02-28 23:04 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-01 00:59
Quote:
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On 2011-02-28 22:47, chlorophyll wrote:
Quote:
| On 2011-02-28 18:35, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Hey!! I still gained pres. Maybe not 800 or 1000pres. But it is still positive. Maybe 50? Maybe 100+? Doesn't matter. It's positive.
1 for 1. I kill a dread, and get killed. I still get pres. Either gains are too high, or losses are not enough. |
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You make careless math.
When you kill a ship, you gain A prestige. When you are destoyed, you lose B prestige. Here both of him and you use the same class so A = B. You get positive prestige thanks to combat and jumping. Your prestige is negative if:
1/ You had captured him.
2/ He had SDed.
Raise prestige loss per death = Raise prestige gain per kill. You don't get true reward, it's actually an prestige transfer from player to player.
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Isn't that what I just said?
If I killed a ship and died myself, I would still end up positive because the pres gain seems to be more than pres loss?
In other words, A is more than B.
Forget the pres from the jump. That's insignificant.
It should be the opposite. B should be more, maybe much more, than A. You should lose more pres from losing a dread, than the gain from killing one.
Prob in the order of A:B = 1:2... or even better 1:2.5
This means you need to kill 2 or 2.5 dreads to make up the loss from losing 1.
Only then will people play more carefully and strategically. And not like the suicidal, reckless maniacs that many of them are now.
The things are now, if a station jumped into a bunch of plats in orbit around a planet... then SD'ed himself and took out all the plats and a couple of insignificant player or AI suppies and engies, and damage a few dreads, he'd end up positive too. Something's wrong here.
A station should be worth much more than even 10 plats, 3 supps, and the armor damage of a few dreads. The loss in pres should reflect that!
-1600 for dreads, -3200 for stations!
Hell.... how about -2000 for dreads, -4000 for stations?? 
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-01 01:59 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2011-03-01 02:50
Hulls and gadgets all have a value variable which, when added up as a ship and multiplied by a factor based on your rank, determines the number of resources lost added to your profile, which is then factored again to give you a prestige hit. So changing the prestige hit from death could be done in a few ways:
- Raising the hit a given point of resources lost gives you in prestige. This would mean every death would be more painful (except for midshipmen, whose rank factor is 0 and thus don't gain resources lost).
- Raising the rank factor that determines resources lost from value points. An FA losing a cruiser and a Captain losing a cruiser already take a different hit in res lost; this would make the hit for that fictional FA relatively more painful. That is, the higher ranking players would be penalized more heavily for losing any ship than they are now.
- Raising the value variable on hulls. This would make a given class of ships more costly to lose for everyone.
This post is just to provide a little information on how things work so you can appropriately tailor your feedback (and realize that "3200 for a station" isn't per se possible -- you didn't specify which station [since gadgets affect the value and thus the cost] or who's piloting it [since their rank affects the resources lost]. Though that said, the numbers don't really vary that much that we couldn't ballpark around a given number for a given ship class). I don't have a position... not publicly anyway.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-01 03:28
Quote:
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On 2011-03-01 02:50, Shigernafy wrote:
Hulls and gadgets all have a value variable which, when added up as a ship and multiplied by a factor based on your rank, determines the number of resources lost added to your profile, which is then factored again to give you a prestige hit. So changing the prestige hit from death could be done in a few ways:
- Raising the hit a given point of resources lost gives you in prestige. This would mean every death would be more painful (except for midshipmen, whose rank factor is 0 and thus don't gain resources lost).
- Raising the rank factor that determines resources lost from value points. An FA losing a cruiser and a Captain losing a cruiser already take a different hit in res lost; this would make the hit for that fictional FA relatively more painful. That is, the higher ranking players would be penalized more heavily for losing any ship than they are now.
- Raising the value variable on hulls. This would make a given class of ships more costly to lose for everyone.
This post is just to provide a little information on how things work so you can appropriately tailor your feedback (and realize that "3200 for a station" isn't per se possible -- you didn't specify which station [since gadgets affect the value and thus the cost] or who's piloting it [since their rank affects the resources lost]. Though that said, the numbers don't really vary that much that we couldn't ballpark around a given number for a given ship class). I don't have a position... not publicly anyway.
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Great to know how that works Shig.
Maybe a way to tweak it would be a combination of those three abovementioned variables, with added emphasis on the rank factor.
Players with ranks (I avoid the term Vet) are normally expected (with the exception of some talented low-rankers) to be more adept at handling their ships, and should be punished more for sloppy or reckless use.
Furthermore, capital ships are important strategic resources and should be treated with a bit more care than just suicide spamming them. And since these ships are only accessible to the higher ranks.....
.... well you know where I'm getting at.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2011-03-01 05:45
then you havent taken any damage. You havent died. Both cause negative pres. so dying loses pres. what is deceptive about that, jackass?
And when did you do all this? The pres gain has been nerfed multiple times over the last few months.
And what amount of pres loss do you think will stop me from doing what I want either way? At over 500K I dont see much that will disincentivize me that doesnt break the game.
Like big ships/ Of course. But I guess we should all be just like Ent. Ent feels the need to control everyone else's experience. No big ships for you mr. Why? Cause I said so that's why.
He hates people in big ships, and yet, we all play and gain rank to get weaker and smaller ships right?
Wow, imagine that, big ships to shoot at with my big ship. Gee. Who woulda guessed that would be more fair than my shooting little ships with my big ship.
Oh? You dont want me in a big ship either? Thank you Mr. Arbitrary, but u play your way.
Look at him ladies and gentlemen. Here is one of those guys who is constantly asking for players to be punished for attempting something. That players should be forced to play certain ships. Basically, that DS must change to suit his tastes. That players must have everything stacked against them, and anything in their favor is an exploit. He wants a game with only him in it, I can only guess.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2011-03-01 05:53 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-03-01 05:46
Quote:
| On 2011-03-01 00:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
If I killed a ship and died myself, I would still end up positive because the pres gain seems to be more than pres loss?
In other words, A is more than B.
Forget the pres from the jump. That's insignificant. |
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Remember A = B only when you kill, A < B if you ain't the one who kills.
Quote:
| On 2011-03-01 00:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
It should be the opposite. B should be more, maybe much more, than A. You should lose more pres from losing a dread, than the gain from killing one.
Prob in the order of A:B = 1:2... or even better 1:2.5
This means you need to kill 2 or 2.5 dreads to make up the loss from losing 1.
Only then will people play more carefully and strategically. And not like the suicidal, reckless maniacs that many of them are now. |
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Are they? Who?
Quote:
| On 2011-03-01 00:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
The things are now, if a station jumped into a bunch of plats in orbit around a planet... then SD'ed himself and took out all the plats and a couple of insignificant player or AI suppies and engies, and damage a few dreads, he'd end up positive too. Something's wrong here. |
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Blame the engineer.
Quote:
| On 2011-03-01 00:59, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
A station should be worth much more than even 10 plats, 3 supps, and the armor damage of a few dreads. The loss in pres should reflect that!
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Don't be insane. Station is durable because of its drones. Take away the drone from station, they're maybe an easiest target in game. If you hate station, perhaps you should call for a protest march requesting only 1 drone on station.
Now back to the topic, shall we ask why marshall chief marshall still playing this game although there is nothing new, no more goal to archive? The answer is essential.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2011-03-01 06:21 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-01 05:59
Quote:
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
Remember A = B only when you kill, A < B if you ain't the one who kills (another in team does).
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That's just an example. The fact is that, you gain more pres from killing a single dread, even all by yourself, than you lose pres from losing your dread.
What's the risk in that? You can simply jump into battle with reckless abandon. It doesn't matter if it's 2 or 3 vs your lonesome. You just have to lock onto one of them and kill it before you go down. No strategy needed, no personal risk involved. What's the fun in that?
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
You don't want to play and always under the pressure "I must not die, I must not die..." This is a game, people play it for pleasure. Why bother playing with many pressure when the time is limited and we already full with stress during job?
I don't play in 1.4, when prestige loss was terrible. Palestar changed the prestige loss in 1.5, which mean there must be a reason. Unless that reason is no longer existent, they won't modify prestige loss back to 1.4 I guess.
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So you prefer a riskless game that just allows you to throw things away with reckless abandon? Is that fun? Even in many MMORPGs, having your main character die will result in significant penalties, like losing special items, experience or even levels. In EVE, when you die in a ship, you lose that ship.... forever. Is DS meant to be an 'easy mode' game? Something simple for the kiddies?
Ultimately, the Devs will have to decide what DS is.
Is it just an arcade shooter where everyone gets into a big ship, mashes the spacebar, fight/kill then dies happy without any risk. Therefore strategy goes out the window? Or do they want some semblence of tactics and strategy, which incorporates risks to both team and player?
I hope to play something that rewards for successes and punishes for mistakes.
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
What's wrong? Stupid engineer?
Don't be insane. Station is durable because of its drones. Take away the drone from station, they're nearly an easiest target in game. If you hate station, perhaps you should call for a protest march requesting only 1 drone on station.
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I don't hate stations. I just find it ridiculous that the majority of the ships in games are high value dreads and stations, when cruisers and dessies should be the mainstay of any sane fleet. I don't see any fleets in real life, or even fiction (DS fanfics do not count ), that has capital ships as their mainstays...
Yes, the rep rate is ridiculous too BTW. Stations can keep their 3 drones. But perhaps the limit of reps to each and every ship should be limited to 3 drones max, inclusive of the ship's own. Or even simpler.... reduce the rep rate per drone by a factor of 3.
Ultimately, increasing pres loss will not force players into smaller ships. Now if we were to implement class limits for dreads and stations just like those FPS shooters(Something that I would favor), then people would be justified in screaming that they are being forced to play something they do not want to.
But if we made it more realistic, economically speaking (big ships cost a lot, therefore dying in one will cost you plenty too), then they can still fly all the big ships they want and do whatever suicide runs they want. They just have to bear the consequences of doing so. It's still a free world/universe/metaverse.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-01 09:08 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-01 09:22
So you went back and editted your post..
Quote:
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
Remember A = B only when you kill, A < B if you ain't the one who kills.
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You don't even need to KILL someone to get pres gains. Remember in DS, it's not about who you kill. You could jump in and kill a 5% dread and you only get that much pres.
If you hull a dread from 100 to 5% and someone steals your kill, you still get a lot of pres. The only thing you don't get is +1 kill.
The point still stands. A:B should ideally be 1:2 or 2.5. That'll make you careful with your ship, while hungry to kill/hurt the enemy. Think of a good way to attack them without dying yourself, as in real life.
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
Are they? Who?
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Do you really want to name names? I think it's fairly obvious who goes online and just throw stations into the mix, willing to die in the attempt.
Just log on and play.
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Blame the engineer.
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What? Blame the engineer for his plats dying because a station SD'ed over it? You're kidding. And blame the engineer because 10 plats blowing up gave the station more pres than what he lost by having it blown up?
Blame the game mechanics.
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On 2011-03-01 05:46, chlorophyll wrote:
Don't be insane. Station is durable because of its drones. Take away the drone from station, they're maybe an easiest target in game. If you hate station, perhaps you should call for a protest march requesting only 1 drone on station.
Now back to the topic, shall we ask why marshall chief marshall still playing this game although there is nothing new, no more goal to archive? The answer is essential.
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Already answered the first paragraph in the earlier post.
Why? Because they want to get into the fight, that's why.
Why do I play even though I've reached Marshal? Because of the fight, that's why.
But at the same time, I'm also playing less these days because it's getting stale seeing capital ship fight capital ship without due care or planning. Most of PB have gone on to play something else too. At first I wondered why, it's fun! Then after awhile I realized.
Where's the fleet tactics? Where's the command function? Where's the feel of a combined fleet op if everybody wants to be the flagship? 
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-03-01 17:18
Quote:
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On 2011-03-01 05:45, Azreal wrote:
Like big ships/ Of course. But I guess we should all be just like Ent. Ent feels the need to control everyone else's experience. No big ships for you mr. Why? Cause I said so that's why.
He hates people in big ships, and yet, we all play and gain rank to get weaker and smaller ships right?
Wow, imagine that, big ships to shoot at with my big ship. Gee. Who woulda guessed that would be more fair than my shooting little ships with my big ship.
Oh? You dont want me in a big ship either? Thank you Mr. Arbitrary, but u play your way.
Look at him ladies and gentlemen. Here is one of those guys who is constantly asking for players to be punished for attempting something. That players should be forced to play certain ships. Basically, that DS must change to suit his tastes. That players must have everything stacked against them, and anything in their favor is an exploit. He wants a game with only him in it, I can only guess.
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2011-03-01 05:53 ]
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Proving that entitlement still exists.
I don't care if people fly big ships, but I do ask that they be worth their weight. Everyone wants to fly big ships? Fine. I didn't say "Hey look, nobody fly big ships!" Or "Hey look, lets make it so only one person can fly a big ship at a time!" And so on.
What I do care about is the reckless disregard for balance. There is no justification for prestige gain after throwing ship after ship away. There is no justification for every single player to do this with no consequences. Consequences are part of a game. Without them, there is no balance.
You really proved my point with your statement, and I quote
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And what amount of pres loss do you think will stop me from doing what I want either way? At over 500K I dont see much that will disincentivize me that doesnt break the game.
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This is the problem.
"Doing whatever you want" in a team based, strategy game (or so Darkspace has parroted itself as), is kind of a moot point when you decide to do whatever you want because you would need to lose hundreds of the most "valuable" ships - without fighting back - to even suffer consequences. Death is supposed to be a consequence, but if it isn't, whats the point? Is this just going to be the space ship equivilent of counter-strike in space now?
Because if thats the case, we might as well get rid of death as a punishment, and we might as well get rid of ranks, and badges, and any kind of progression, because its all damn right well pointless if at the end of the game you can say "I will do whatever I want regardless of the circumstances because there are no consequences".
Note I'm not saying you can't do whatever you want. You want to throw station after station into the enemy? Go for it. Your entire team wants to field Dreads? So be it. But if you die, that should be a problem. Your problem.
Every balancing aspect of the various ships revolves around Dreadnaughts and Stations not being the majority stake in a battlefield, and arguing that point is impossible. As of yet, there is nothing to reduce the incentive of Dreads and Stations, despite numerous additions hoping to address what is clearly a problem without making smaller ships too overpowered.
See, I do like flying smaller ships, there is no denying it at all. But note how I'm not saying "Lets make them just as powerful as Dreads!" No. I'm saying "If I fly a small ship, I choose to take reduced prestige gain for reduced prestige loss, if I fly a big ship, I choose increased prestige gain for increased prestige loss." There is no equivilency though. And thats why you have 500k prestige to waste. Its a disgusting perversion of the game that a prestige marker that wasn't realistically attainable a few years ago has become the norm. It breaks the balance.
So at what point do you admit that its broken? When we have people at 3 million prestige from throwing ship after ship away? When I stop entire fleets because I can get in eight Battle Stations in my garage and throw them at a fleet repeatedly and come in the positive, and chase them away? Thats balance? The hell it is. Anyone who thinks this game is supposed to be that way seriously lost some kind of perspective.
This is someone who wants to fly their big ships and not have to suffer the consequences when he loses. He calls it fun, I call it ruining the game for everyone else. You call it "If I don't like I can fly something else" I call it, wasting my potential because a cruiser is downright worthless against CMs who can throw three battle stations at me without pause. It makes prestige worthless, it makes people's rank worthless, it makes every effort in the game trivial. If thats what you want, then we should simply get rid of it.
I think we need to step up and start defining what the game is supposed to be, not from a few players shouting into the void "Its my damn sandbox and I will play it for my own purposes" but an actual purpose, otherwise the game condemns itself to mediocrity. Maybe I care more than you.
So we either drag prestige gain back down to normal levels without removing people's work, or we get rid of the whole system because its fast becoming pointless to have it all with things like this.
Azreal throws out accusations, but has nothing to back it up except his own entitlement to do as he pleases. Nothing about increasing prestige loss reduces your right to fly whatever ship you want. Nothing about increasing prestige loss says I want everyone to fly smaller ships. Because I'm not making the choice for them, I'm not making one ship any better than the other. Nothing changes but the penalty. And if people are so terrible of players they can't hold onto the rank to fly a Dread, and they don't have the ability, should we really be giving it to them?
Because if thats so, then again I ask why bother having any system of progression. Why bother having any "endgame" when the endgame is a joke. The answer always comes up the same "I play to have fun". Well if your only idea of fun in Darkspace is to be able to do anything you want without consequences then things are worse than even I profess them to be. The only thing left in the end will be five or six players endlessly locked in a battle of station spamming. Oh the joy of that thought.
Now that I think that such slander has be throughly addressed, and if said logic above isn't enough, then maybe others who do understand the problem and have the cognitive ability to understand its ramifications will agree.
Moving on.
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- Raising the rank factor that determines resources lost from value points. An FA losing a cruiser and a Captain losing a cruiser already take a different hit in res lost; this would make the hit for that fictional FA relatively more painful. That is, the higher ranking players would be penalized more heavily for losing any ship than they are now.
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Easily the most fair option. Newer players shouldn't be punished as harshly as older players. Generally speaking if you have the rank, at that point, its a fair assumption that said player has the ability to keep it regardless of what he flys. Perhaps my support of such a thing might also further make dissenters aware that I'm not trying to force people to fly smaller ships. The problem is gross prestige gain without any significant loss, particularly without consequences once you pass GA.
The biggest issue merely happens to be that Dreads and Stations are the most effective for that gain. Which I say should not be changed at all if prestige loss is increased. Equal reward for equal amounts of risk. That should be fair enough right?
It keeps the incentive for flying bigger ships, but it also introduces actual risk for flying them. It doesn't make them any more vulnerable, but it does stop you from making repeat suicide runs regardless of the ship you're in. The loss should scale at that rank. It also doesn't overly punish newer pilots in big ships so that it doesn't keep them from learning the ropes.
A person might ask then, why rank up if you will just lose more prestige? Well heres the deal. If gain is kept the same, then your potential gain goes up. In a weird way, it actually encourages players to fly bigger ships to offset the potential loss. Strange how that works. However, it does punish the people who should know better at higher ranks who throw their ship stupidly away. Thats fairness. Those are consequences. That brings back balance.
The only question is, how high? I'm hell of a draconian person, and I'd yell for 3k prestige loss in a station at CM, but I doubt I'd get that lucky.
-Ent
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
| Posted: 2011-03-01 17:57
Have anyone forgot this page?
http://darkspace.net/index.htm?lang=en&module=ranking.php
Check it out, you migth get shocked.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-01 18:53
Scary eh? Especially more so when you realize that many active players are FA and above. Anyone can decide to pull a station. 
Soon DS will be like this. (Fanfic-ish style narration follows)
"20 UGTO dreads jump to Fargo Rock, facing off with 20 ICC stations around the planet. Caught in the dictor field, the Shrooms stay at 800 GUs from the Trashcans, acting like immobile space platforms with both sides just spamming each other with fighters, missiles and core weaps.
Just then, 20 Kluth stations jump in behind Tiflis and spams the humans with more fighters etc etc etc etc."
Well, after all, we can't stop players from flying what they want. "You can go ahead and fly your destroyer or cruiser, thank you. I'll stick to my station 'cos I earned it, nevermind that it turned DS into a glorified and prettier browser Place-The-Turret game."
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-01 18:55 ]
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Siginau
Fleet Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 72
| Posted: 2011-03-02 07:32
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On 2011-03-01 18:53, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Scary eh? Especially more so when you realize that many active players are FA and above. Anyone can decide to pull a station.
Soon DS will be like this. (Fanfic-ish style narration follows)
"20 UGTO dreads jump to Fargo Rock, facing off with 20 ICC stations around the planet. Caught in the dictor field, the Shrooms stay at 800 GUs from the Trashcans, acting like immobile space platforms with both sides just spamming each other with fighters, missiles and core weaps.
Just then, 20 Kluth stations jump in behind Tiflis and spams the humans with more fighters etc etc etc etc."
Well, after all, we can't stop players from flying what they want. "You can go ahead and fly your destroyer or cruiser, thank you. I'll stick to my station 'cos I earned it, nevermind that it turned DS into a glorified and prettier browser Place-The-Turret game."
[ This Message was edited by: Siginau on 2011-03-02 07:37 ]
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indeed, current players online at top times 20? so i dont think well ever see 60 stations even if we really want to, unless DS creates SP campaign or something then it is hopeless t get players to play this instead of say EVE.
The press loss on hulls should be bumped alot.
dreads and stations should cost arround -3000 pres per loss, dreadspace would be swapped for something other 
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2011-03-02 10:18
[ This Message was edited by: James 296 on 2011-03-02 10:33 ]
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