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suggestions on kluth |
Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
|  Posted: 2011-08-02 02:12
these are some suggestions to address really long standing issues kluth pilots have had. i think theyve been largely neglected, and as a result other balance decisions have been made that havent addressed issues within kluth itself that, if remedied, might contribute to better gameplay balancing and a funner game.
A) a big complaint i hear is about energy. i always thought kluth were saying they couldnt get enough shots off in a run, but that might be the wrong way to interpret that statement. instead, i think their problem is that once its expended it takes quite a while for it all to come back.
what would people think of an energy regeneration mode, similar to ICCs shield regeneration mode?
if this were linked to generators specifically, e.g. energy regen mode occurred when your generators doubled output, you could potentially also make this into an incentive to use smaller ships: yes, they pack a smaller punch, but they have more generators onboard and can regenerate their energy faster than the larger ones.
just excuse this as some sort of issue with transferring electricity through a living ship... if i recall, to send electricity further you need higher voltage, which is more dangerous to living organisms, and on a larger ships you would need very high voltage to get the power from generators to weapons or batteries, ergo. would be too dangerous... ?
there would obviously have to be some sort of weakness to this. being able to fire weapons while having your generators running double output would be pretty bad =P by the same token though i think making it deactive cloak would be too much, since forcing a player to get right out of the enemy's range would be a bit much. if it subtracted from overall speed and/or locked weapons that might be enough.
B) in the same vein, kluth have frequently had issue with armour. theres been a lot of back and forth on this, as im sure most are aware. it has occurred to me though that the main issue is that kluth need protection on their offensive run when they are well aware they are going to be visible, but when retreating, in a prolonged engagement, or being caught unawares, they need to be physically vulnerable in order to maintian game balance.
so, another suggestion: these are living ships, and thus have muscles and what not, so could a short kluth ability be a boost to defense through the ship expending energy to flex its muscles and form a hardened surface? perhaps with a charge-up necessary beforehand that could only be held for so long?
e.g., kluth pilot would make approach, gain speed, charge shell harden, decloak, harden shell, fire, cloak, hardened shell relaxes, pilot retreats, enters energy regeneration mode, finds new approach, repeats.
or, when successfully disrupted: kluth pilot makes approach, gains speed, charges shell hardening but takes too long to get into position, hardened shell charge lapses and ability enters cooldown, ship decloaks without hardened shell, takes damage, has to cloak and retreat to repair as well as recharge energy.
make this a reducing percentage based on size, so a smaller ship can bring its shell closer together, but a larger ship has trouble maintaining this integrity.
C) the last issue is that kluth are still forced into their larger ships because speed doesnt offer a significant advantage over firepower. their tactics still rely on doing lots of damage and then running away. with energy regeneration and a hardened shell ability this is partly alleviated, but im not certain it would be sufficient. my suggestion would be to increase the speed of kluths smaller vessels significantly over their human counterparts. its not only kluths ability to hide, but their ability to appear in places you dont expect that makes a hit and run strategy effective.
in the large-hit and long-run strategy, you dont know where they come from next because you have to wait 20 minutes for round two. with very fast small ships they can get into a very different location without having to give that large break in time, and can make up more effectively for the reduced damage output.
what do kluth pilots think?
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-08-02 02:30
never thought i would agree with lark but everything looks pretty reasonable to me
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2011-08-02 03:15
just to add: im aware that an issue before was kluth coming back to a fight way too fast, but the main issue there was kluth ships disappearing with almost-dead hull and armour and reappearing sufficiently fixed to be a serious threat again.
im not sure what the AHR is like nowadays. i would hope the above was fixed. in any case, energy regen is mainly for a small ship thats done a successful hit and run attack to be able to repeat it, not to recreate the prior balance issue. systems damage to generators preventing energy regen would be a good balance system in this regard.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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pawnerz
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 03, 2010
Posts: 50
From: Somewhere Somehow
| Posted: 2011-08-02 03:31
I think K'luth is fine as it is, sure the energy is bad but the damage we make is huge, as with our armour the new AHR repairs armour at the cost of drinking the AHR ammo alot.
K'luth is fine. xD
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-08-02 04:01
yeah people complain about kluth having armor regen back. it comes at a high price. we lost our natural organic armor regen and the armor regen also uses ahr ammo. when armor and hull is damaged u can go through ahr really quickly.
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2011-08-02 04:09
well, my point is that the devs have been struggling to balance kluth and the 2 human factions, and it always seems just when they get kluth balanced against one it goes horribly awry with the other. yet at the same time theres gameplay issues within kluth that havent been addressed, e.g. kluth are still using dreads and not bothering with cruisers and down.
thats an issue on all factions to be sure, but for instance, the ICC combat destroyer is actually good for something. im not sure you could say the same for the claw =P
im trying to give suggestions that would internally correct some issues with kluth, and perhaps lead to other balance points outside of the faction as well.
but, theyre just suggestions =)
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2011-08-02 04:42
this is not something that can really be changed. kluth playstyle demands you put the highest amoutn of damage possible on the target in the shortest amount of time. the only way to fix this would be to have smaller ships able to put down not as much damage but be more able to utilize its damage with out running out of power too quickly or being pwned by other dreads becuse ur in a small ship.
In some cases kluth cruisers and below are not all that effective. in this round kluth cruisers maybe good on paper but are not very good in the field. people who use cruisers and below use them becuse they have no other choice. scarabs,clavates and peircers being the oly exception becuse they have a use in a fleet. kluth ships cruisers and below simply are outmatched cruisers and below. this changes however in dreads.take a fleet of icc cruisers v kluth cruisers. in every possible scenario the icc cruisers will win every time. testing has proven a scale v a bc needs to have 3-4 other scales in its favor to pull out a victory v a single bc. take a claw is anyone really afraid of a couple claws truthfuly?
this is the problem kluth cruisers and below simply do not match well against their human counter parts.
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No matter how hard they have tried. They havnt figured out how to nerf skill yet :P
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-08-02 06:33
such a wonderfull minds... if all of ideas could be tested somewhere... most of them just stay on forum, sadly 
your suggestion sound really great. love it. give kluth some mechanics, beside cloak, and energy managment. like for example, icc chield managment, pilosting, shooting...3 hand work. and in this i see kluth like more fast correctly timed actions to execute efficient attack. no just jump in, cloak, creep, uncloak, totally rape 1 2 3 4 buttons, cloak, run, stop, recharge, repeat. only thing i would tweak in your suggestion...is just a minor "beauty fix"... is than when in energy recharge mode, generator do double output, would be no fire restrictions, instead, if you fire when in this more it would fry most of your weapons and generators, possibly engines and jump drives.. you still can deplete whatever energy you got left, but you cant recharge anything until your internal are repaired.. making you naked sitting duck.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-08-02 08:37
Quote:
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On 2011-08-02 03:15, Lark (Retired) wrote:
just to add: im aware that an issue before was kluth coming back to a fight way too fast, but the main issue there was kluth ships disappearing with almost-dead hull and armour and reappearing sufficiently fixed to be a serious threat again.
im not sure what the AHR is like nowadays. i would hope the above was fixed. in any case, energy regen is mainly for a small ship thats done a successful hit and run attack to be able to repeat it, not to recreate the prior balance issue. systems damage to generators preventing energy regen would be a good balance system in this regard.
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we don't comeback as fast anymore, hull may repair fast, but armor repair is slow, even with the new ahr change.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-08-02 08:49
Everyone has the energy issues. Peopel just haven't adapted to the new version yet. Not to mention K'Luth have VERY high armour count compared to in the past.
They are fine, marginally overpowered with their dreads, and their smaller ships are marginally underpowered. There will probably be some armour tweaks in the future aimed at K'Luth to address this, but other than that they are fine.
And to Necrotic, your natural regen was actually buffed during 1.670, but we reverted that change when we gave you the enhanced AHR, so your Organic Armor is just as it was.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-08-02 10:22
buffed in numbers theory... in game...if you tryed to play, did seem rather strane to define buff... now i see we havehotfix, and gotta try how it acts now 
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warlord 1050
Admiral
Joined: April 05, 2006
Posts: 19
| Posted: 2011-08-02 10:34
On one suggestion i agree.
Some smaller ships (destroyer-) are quit useless.
They have to be close to deal some damage at all, but their armour is very thin or even non existing at the rear and hull is fragile as is with those small ships.
Only use is maybe in scenario, but that's it.
Other factions don't have that problem with ships that size.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-08-02 12:00
Quote:
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On 2011-08-02 08:49, Pantheon wrote:
And to Necrotic, your natural regen was actually buffed during 1.670, but we reverted that change when we gave you the enhanced AHR, so your Organic Armor is just as it was.
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If it's just as it was then what's the point of the change? It uses AHR now to regenerate at the same rate it did when it wasn't using AHR? Or am I missing some other benefit?
I'm comfortable with Kluth energy issues. My Krill does go through energy fast, but compared to before when it had no energy issues it's better overall.
(I would still prefer core weapons to be supertorpedoes, not supercannons, with slow rate of fire but heavy spike damage, but I've always been a guy who liked the boom-boom over the pew-pew, in almost every game I play)
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GiggaShadow[+L.F.]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 176
From: Behind You!
| Posted: 2011-08-02 15:20
[quote]
On 2011-08-02 12:00, MrSparkle wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-02 08:49, Pantheon wrote:
And to Necrotic, your natural regen was actually buffed during 1.670, but we reverted that change when we gave you the enhanced AHR, so your Organic Armor is just as it was.
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If it's just as it was then what's the point of the change? It uses AHR now to regenerate at the same rate it did when it wasn't using AHR? Or am I missing some other benefit?
I'm comfortable with Kluth energy issues. My Krill does go through energy fast, but compared to before when it had no energy issues it's better overall.
(I would still prefer core weapons to be supertorpedoes, not supercannons, with slow rate of fire but heavy spike damage, but I've always been a guy who liked the boom-boom over the pew-pew, in almost every game I play)
No before it just auto regen the armor without the cost of AHR.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2011-08-02 15:49
K'luth is allready powerful enough. it doesnt need OMGWTFIM1337HAAAX buffs.
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