* EVENT: 'Darkspace Fleet Leader Meeting' event is starting now...
12:55:15 Jack the Ripper: "If you need anything done administratively, Shig and Nax is here to see to that."
12:55:18 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "I'm here to represent the people who are alt-tabbed all the time but check in every few minutes"
12:55:21 Jack the Ripper: "Same with the dev stuff."
12:55:23 [Admin]Nax: "I guess I could re-add myself to fleet officer of Raven :)"
12:55:33 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol."
12:55:33 Jack the Ripper: "Basically - we have people here to deal with what we need to deal with if you need it dealt with."
12:55:36 [Raven]Banshee: "Already done mate"
12:55:37 Jack the Ripper: "Except when we don't want to deal with it."
12:55:40 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "your fleet is admin"
* Jack the Ripper watches everyones head explode.
12:56:02 [Admin]Nax: "for the playing account - I like playing more than admining"
12:56:04 Mr Hyde: "he's not the fleet officer of admin though"
12:56:07 Mr Hyde: "no one is"
12:56:12 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok, I think we should start...unless anyone wants to wait a while longer...."
* EVENT: 'Darkspace Fleet Leader Meeting' event is starting now...
12:56:23 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "no we should start"
12:56:29 Jack the Ripper: "Lets wait til 18:00 GMT"
12:56:35 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I know its late for some"
12:56:49 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "thx for coming"
12:56:55 [Admin]Nax: "actually, admins can do just about anything they want - it's part of the territory"
12:56:59 Mr Hyde: "It's 11am here lol.."
12:57:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I relly only wanna say a few things myself, but let us all get ideas out."
12:57:14 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "im only here for the free food j/k seriously tho whats first ?"
12:57:20 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "We need more combat in the game"
12:57:24 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "and less crying"
12:57:32 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "agreed"
12:57:36 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Now what do you mean by combat?"
12:57:42 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "noone from TR is here"
12:57:43 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Combat against AI, or Players?"
12:57:43 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "pvp"
12:57:44 Jack the Ripper: "How about we go over this in bullet points?"
12:57:54 Jack the Ripper: "I believe there were a few things you wanted to go over in your PM Azreal."
12:58:01 Jack the Ripper: "This might go better if we just go through them one by one."
12:58:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, I was thinking the biggest 1 is what can we do for ICC"
12:58:33 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "But we can go down the list"

12:58:46 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "i think the enhancement changes have helped in that area alot"
12:58:50 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "hope this isnt a discussion about balance"
12:58:55 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, to be honest, there isn't alot we as players can do for ICC. It's up to the Developers to revamp the ships now."
12:59:07 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "changing the armor to full on defence was a smart move"
12:59:12 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "slow web site"
12:59:17 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Ants, Pete, and I can recruit all we want, but players won't stay on a crippled faction."
12:59:18 Mr Hyde: "ICC are being worked on"
12:59:21 Jack the Ripper: "Guys, this isn't about development."
12:59:28 Mr Hyde: "They still need players"
12:59:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "No not developement"
12:59:48 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "this is about US"
12:59:51 Jack the Ripper: "We're pretty happy where ICC are (ofc, there are things that can be touched up on). But we generally agree that it's just a player thing with ICC - they don't have many active players, and it causes a catch 22."
13:00:04 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "you mean like not taking all there planets ect?"
13:00:14 [Admin]Nax: "Yes, don't rely on development changes to fix things - talk about what you can do yourselves"
13:00:18 Mr Hyde: "what jack said"
13:00:18 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "TR has a fair amount of vets on it"
13:00:20 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "is there anything we can do to encourage more icc? fleet moves? maybe movtake tours there?"

13:00:42 Feralwulf: "ok"
13:00:43 Mr Hyde: "Wolf as ICC? hmmm"
13:00:45 Feralwulf: "1st"
13:00:53 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, I would be willing"
13:00:51 Feralwulf: "Agreements on territories in PvE servers. "
13:00:51 Mr Hyde: "I like that"
13:00:52 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "not rly cause that will always be just a temp thing "
13:00:55 Jack the Ripper: "Activity is a major player."
13:00:56 Feralwulf: "discuss"
13:01:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "TBH, how about [FS] Azreal...."
13:01:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I'm THAT serious...."
13:01:08 Jack the Ripper: "Feral, you've come a bit late here..."
13:01:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Darkspace doesn't have PvE Servers, Feral."
13:01:15 Mr Hyde: "hahahaha"
13:01:31 Feralwulf: "I am always fashionably late"
13:01:37 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we have lost alot of skill"
13:01:35 [CEC]slidevail *S3*: "could you balance the mv with the un-subbed players?"
13:01:41 Feralwulf: "I know crim"
13:02:00 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I think if the vets took tours we could bring some back"
13:02:41 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I was never big on ICC myself, but if nothing else I can be a target lol"
13:02:40 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "like i said azreal i beleive taking tours to icc will always just be a temp fix we need somthing more permanent"
13:02:52 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, to be honest, you'd have to look at trends in past versions on player numbers on factions."
13:03:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "yeah, we've been there"
13:03:12 Jack the Ripper: "Player numbers fall and rise. It's just a case of where people are."
13:03:23 Jack the Ripper: "If people login, select ICC, and see people playing, they'll join in."
13:03:44 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "13:01:35 [CEC]slidevail *S3*: "could you balance the mv with the un-subbed players?""
13:03:38 Jack the Ripper: "What we really need, is just some people playing."
13:03:42 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Who's had the largest player base in almost every version? The faction with the most advantages, and the one with the least always has the lowest. Not saying it's a dev thing, it's just a player thing"
13:03:50 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "i like that idea...."
13:03:56 [Admin]Nax: "in the past Scenario was one of the best places to recruit - and to see how to do everything. I was playing there for a long time before I really did a lot of MV work"
13:04:05 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "sorry im late"
13:04:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "agree nax"
13:04:10 Mr Hyde: "For example, remember when PB was ICC just a week or so ago?"
13:04:19 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ty for scenario returning"
13:04:30 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "it was the training grounds after mv came on"
13:04:27 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "true kjack but how do you get ppl to constantly play a faction thet everyone keep bad mouthing, in addition with the numbers on ugto and kluth arent rly helping"
13:04:29 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "12:01:35 [CEC]slidevail *S3*: "could you balance the mv with the un-subbed players?" <-- Dev thing, but good idea"
13:04:36 Jack the Ripper: "So on a whole, just more people playing ICC would help."
13:04:45 Feralwulf: "no"
13:05:04 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "no, more VETERANS playing ICC for a while will help"
13:05:17 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "which I am not really one, like I said."
13:05:25 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "but I'll try"
* Shighoulnafy @29 sent to Friends: "its microwaveablekittens"
13:05:28 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, we've had good numbers on ICC, but after they get they're arse handed to them they usually change over to another faction"
* You sent to Friends: "LOL"
13:05:59 Jack the Ripper: "More often than not it's down to poor leadership. There's not many active 'leader'-type roles on ICC."
13:06:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "agree with Jack"
13:06:17 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I'm sorry but its true"
13:06:20 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "ok what about this all the vets decided to stick with icc for 6 months ? then chang eback if they ant "
13:06:24 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Not many want to lead lambs to the slaughter, though"
13:06:26 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Raven used to organize and kick our tails"
13:06:31 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "GTN same"
13:06:34 Jack the Ripper: "Why is it to the slaughter?"
13:06:47 Jack the Ripper: "You're talking like ICC are WAY weaker than other factions, when in truth they're not."
13:07:11 Mr Hyde: "<3 HC"
13:07:23 Jack the Ripper: "If something's not true, but you force yourself to believe it - you too start believing it. I believe this mentallity has stuck around far too long in DarkSpace."
13:07:24 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, in almost every fight I've been in, ICC are underpowered in most ways. Our ships can't stay in the fight as long as other factions, meaning our numbers dwindle quickly compared to everyone elses"
13:07:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well if they are then we could find out by floating through it each in turn...even for a month. Maybe just scheduling fleet duels to help "
13:07:44 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "was the recharge time on shields fixed?"
13:07:55 Jack the Ripper: "Either way, I'll re-itterate this. This is not a discussion on balance."
13:08:06 Jack the Ripper: "This is not a private dev meeting."
13:08:20 [Raven]Banshee: "then Devs stop talking?"
13:08:25 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "the issue is there are no pulbic dev meetings"
13:08:27 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ty jack"
13:08:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok ok, come on"
13:08:47 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "ok this is going no where "
13:08:59 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I know....:("
13:09:06 Feralwulf: "next topic maybe?"
13:09:10 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I'm afraid of a two faction game"
13:09:10 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "we either need to come up with some ideas WE can do or move on"
13:09:11 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "There's probably an extreme lack of competent leadership by the playerbase to encourage PvP and a lack of effort from the players to do more than try to PVE? That's probably a problem worth discussing."
13:09:17 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "You guys ARE the fleet officers."
13:09:21 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "but we can set it aside"
13:09:32 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "Jack is right, ICC is a strong faction... only thig is, not all players like to turn and run since we are strong from afar and not ment to take a ugto or huth head on..."
13:09:40 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "I agree with Baron"
13:10:15 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I think if we could SHOW how old ICC was used, the Vets as a group, it would change things"
13:10:29 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I know the biggest issue is groups not being together"
13:10:27 [Admin]Mithrandir: "Side note: we really try for incremental, small changes so as not to upset the balance drastically at one time - especially if there are multiple possible causes. I have thrown in a small change the last couple patches.. once improved shield regen, this last time slightly more powerful reactors..."
13:10:29 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "Pipping in, you can't "not" take the K'luth on headon."
13:10:35 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "you mean eds and tmds ?"
13:10:37 [Admin]Mithrandir: "So we're not ignoring ICC, just not making hueg changes all the time"
13:11:07 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, thats the problem there. You can't exactly use ICC like previous versions"
13:11:08 [Admin]Mithrandir: "Which is partly why Jack says we think they're fine. They're not hugely out of whack.. so we're just doing small tweaks to try to get them back in line without overcorrecting"
13:11:16 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "(more beacons on ships would help)"
13:11:15 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "That is true Sard"
13:11:16 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "exactly"
13:11:17 Mr Hyde: "ICC are being worked on like I said.."
13:11:19 [Raven]Banshee: "Problem as I see it, when you introduce PVE that can have a direct impact of how you perform in PVP, you inevitably hit the wall where people spend more time trying to get their ****, than using it"
13:11:25 [Raven]Banshee: "which, tbh, is a dev issue"
13:11:30 [Admin]Mithrandir: "since usually DS development is a study in pendular development"
13:11:37 Mr Hyde: "ICC need PLAYERS"
13:11:43 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Thanks Pete, been saying that for awhile."
13:11:45 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I do agree banshee"
13:12:10 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "Would be wonderful to have enhancements only drop in PvP. I used to think that scaling it as a mix would work, but now... not so much."
13:12:23 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "no"
13:12:26 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, I'll throw around with Wolf, and maybe we'll go ICC for a while"
13:12:25 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "I seem to remember the last time I played for a couple days, it was a struggle to get people to stop killing NPCs."
13:12:31 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "i mean i disagree "
13:12:33 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I am willing myself"
13:12:44 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "if you do that most of the new [players wont get anything"
* [LAG]LAG apologizes, runninglate
13:12:56 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "keep the enhancement drops like it is"
13:13:00 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "Banshee is correct, alot of players would rather farm AI all day and get massive pres then take a chance to actully fight.. "
13:13:01 Mr Hyde: "back to dev stuff... I thought this was a fleet officer meeting..."
13:13:01 Jack the Ripper: "We'll discuss removing all high-end enhancement drops off NPC's internally. Would that please you and help?"
13:13:06 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I honestly don't like enhancements at all. It's putting more stats into a game that was ment to be based soley on skill"
13:13:15 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "Az if we go ICC then, K"luth will have trouble. I don't think it will help much in the long run"
13:13:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "by driving more combat we get less pvp tho"
13:13:32 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "at least block AI from dropping enhacments , thats the worst part about them"
13:13:32 Feralwulf: "agreed"
13:13:37 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "I also have ideas about rank-to-ship balance, but that's not what this meeting is for"
13:13:46 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "the fact is playing pvp is more fun and now the res lost is 20% less"
13:13:48 Mr Hyde: "So, we need a UGTO fleet to move to ICC"
13:13:51 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Well, again, part of it is something that you guys can change though."
13:13:55 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "im doing a week of icc from monday so even if your fleet isnt all in favor az we can talk a few more people into coming to icc ofr a week atleast"
13:13:56 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "the peasants should be freakin rejoicing"
13:14:01 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "@Az and Silent, do what some old fleets did. Split your fleet into two sections if you feel it would work better then taking your whole fleet."
13:14:18 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Whether you guys force players away from PVE (by camping wherever the NPCs spawn)"
13:14:21 Jack the Ripper: "I feel we're getting a little side-tracked here."
* Mr Hyde applaus steveyk
13:14:31 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "not a bad idea Crim"
13:14:27 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "no keeping the ai from droping enhancements will only hurt the new players "
13:14:28 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Or encourage them to not spend their days."
13:14:30 [Raven]Banshee: "Simple solution would be, all fleets just work on your own people, get roaming fleets going, let others know that, and others will eventually fall in and follow. As players thats all that can really be done"
13:14:36 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "not a bad idea at all"
13:14:35 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "that might work Crim"
13:14:50 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "12:13:32 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "at least block AI from dropping enhacments , thats the worst part about them" <--- And reduse there pres gain even more"
13:15:20 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "this isnt about enhancments so can we drop it for now"
13:15:30 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I agree with what Enterprise said awhile back, remove all AI except support AI."
13:15:43 Jack the Ripper: "Guys, back on track here."
13:15:45 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "seems this is still a de issue and nonthing we can do lets stick to what we can do"
13:15:47 Jack the Ripper: "Not about developers doing things."
13:15:52 Jack the Ripper: "This is about PLAYERS doing things."
13:15:57 Jack the Ripper: "Talk about what YOU can do to better the game."
13:15:59 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "we the players dont control ai either so can we move on from this also"
13:16:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Ok, we'll set this aside for now then."
13:16:06 [Admin]Mithrandir: "by the way, did the res lost thing work? It was kind of an experiment on my part..."
13:16:09 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "agree"
13:16:31 [Raven]Banshee: "17:54:21 Jack the Ripper: "Anything you want, I'll see if it can be accomidated." <-- bet thats why alot of Dev stuff is being discussed ;)"
13:16:43 Mr Hyde: "@mith I don't think that made it into the dev log"
13:16:49 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I don't know mith"
13:16:45 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3203/myidisneedyou.jpg"
13:17:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I felt better either way, so if its not I dont wanna know"
13:17:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol"
13:17:13 Mr Hyde: "Resources lost for death should be lower since the update"
13:17:20 [Admin]Mithrandir: "nobody has died and said "oh hey, that is 20% less!" ?"
13:17:20 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ok can we maybe try to agree on a few nights a week to have some sort of combat based event that us the players can just throw together like we did the last one?"
13:17:25 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "the devs will decuss there stuff when they get the chance here is not the time for that . so lets sgree to drop all the dev sugestions shal we"
13:17:30 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Agreements on territories in PvE servers."
13:17:33 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "next item"
13:17:35 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i bet we could drop the dev stuff if anyone promiss us a public developer meeting"
13:17:36 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "None."
13:17:40 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Should we have them?"
13:17:50 Feralwulf: "no"
13:18:01 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "don't discuss whether we should have PvE server, we have them now"
13:17:58 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "There should be no agreed territories on any server in the MV. Anything is up for grabs, it isn't happyfun carebear space."
13:17:59 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "The agreement is that there should be no agreement."
13:18:05 [Raven]Banshee: "PVE areas have always been some of the best places to start a fight"
13:18:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "how do we deal with them as players?"
13:18:16 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "If you have no planets in a server? Man up and take it."
13:18:18 Mr Hyde: "It's not a bad idea, a very diplomitic way of doing things, reminds me of mirving in 483"
13:18:28 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Actually, what you guys should be doing is camping those NPC areas to start fights."
13:18:34 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I would agree"
13:18:33 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ok az i think we should have set planets for all factions on pve servers so that 1 faction does not control the rights to farm pres and enhancmants "
13:18:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Again, we're old schoolers mostly"
13:18:43 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And no, there are no PvE servers in Darkspace. There are servers with extra AI, but still ment for player versus player."
13:19:07 Mr Hyde: "then don't call them pve servers"
13:19:13 Mr Hyde: "call them farming servers"
13:19:13 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And Stevey is right, no faction has the right to farm a spot. So freaking take it from them."
13:19:16 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "well, Proc is stated by the game to be a PvE server Crim...."
13:19:14 Mr Hyde: "whatever"
* [=TR=]Leonide @121320 Sent "can i get the password for the fleet leader meeting room?"
13:19:29 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "Rogen's Rift wasn't made to be a PvE server. It was created as a middlegrounds from Ursa to Meta, where the biggest ship you can get is a cruiser- and that is a great distinction that makes it an attractive PvP arena."

13:19:48 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Just looked at the server description, Az. No where does it say "PvE Server""
13:20:04 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "I always saw Proc as a goldmine. Good prestige on the Mi, but you'd better be ready to fight other factions for the right to use it."
13:20:15 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I haven't heard any developer say it's a PvE exclusive server, either. It's a PvP server with AI on the side."
13:20:22 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "No it did on the server login message before though lol"
13:20:21 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "why do we need a PVE server at all ?"
13:20:27 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we just never read it "
13:20:27 [LAG]LAG: "Az, for RR server and equal applicability to all players, a daily reset of the planet ownership should level things out."
*
[MODERATOR] Jack the Ripper: "What can you - the player - do to increase PVP? Discuss"


13:20:43 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "I don't know why you people can't stay out of the other systems and the scenario server and just play in Sag. Just getting more people into Sag would really help..."
13:20:53 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ty jack"
13:21:00 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "There should be no agreements on set planets, because that breaks the RoC. That's an agreement between players on different factions to gain prestige and enhancements."
13:21:05 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "what I just said"
13:21:06 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "You can increase PVP by taking away the ability do to what they love."
13:21:15 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Like I said, camp the AI areas."
13:21:21 [=TR=]Leonide: "well, the players can increase PVP by taking enemy planets."
13:21:22 Mr Hyde: "Player events!"
13:21:48 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I like events :)"
13:21:53 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "its on the list"
13:22:08 [PB]Pakhos: "I like events as long as it doesnt end up bad"
13:22:11 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "yeah but 1 thing at a time please"
13:22:17 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "so, basically the CONSENSES seems that agreements on any server is bad?"
13:22:29 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Yup."
13:22:34 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "what about keeping a faction out?"
13:22:43 Mr Hyde: "Pakhos players can make events. make one yourself :)"
13:22:47 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "i think its a good idead but maybe that just me"
13:22:51 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "If you have the ability to take everything a faction has, do it."
* [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33] @40922 Sent "I r late i know, but could i have pw plz."
13:22:54 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "maybe if the planets were more important people, would fight to attack or defend them more resulting in more combat"
13:22:57 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "idead even"
13:23:00 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Thats what the ability to bomb and capture planets is there for."
13:23:07 [Raven]Banshee: "short version of this seems to be - PVE in DS, bad idea, always has been"
13:23:15 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "well i thi nk we could increase the pvp if mabie more attacks on eme systems from what ive seen that gets things started , take all planets except 1 and when ppl start to log on they will try and cap em back just go at it .the main problem with that is not everyone is on at the same time and on but i think we can get passed that"
* [=TR=]Leonide agrees
13:23:23 Jack the Ripper: "Guys, you're really not getting the gist of this..."
13:23:30 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "well, I'd like to at least keep focus more towards combat away from territory grabbing myself"
13:23:27 [Admin]Mithrandir: "* except when it comes to Gaifen"
13:23:29 Jack the Ripper: "What can YOU, THE PLAYERS do."
13:23:33 Jack the Ripper: "You cannot remove PVE."
13:23:35 Jack the Ripper: "You cannot remove AI."
13:23:36 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "this game was always about pvp , ive been playing darkspace for 7 years and I personally dont see a reason for the AI , the only thing it does itthis game was always about pvp , ive been playing darkspace for 7 years and I personally dont see a reason for the AI , the only thing it does it ditracts from pvp"
13:23:41 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "and I don't like seeing a faction driven out"
13:23:39 Jack the Ripper: "What CAN you do?"
13:23:39 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "So question, is besides putting more ppl on ICC, How do we get players back in the MV?"
13:23:47 Mr Hyde: "AI are not going anywhere end of story"
13:23:56 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "doh sorry"
13:23:57 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "But we can bitch at you until you either mute us, or remove them"
13:23:58 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "was just an idea"
13:24:01 [=TR=]Leonide: "the players can ignore AI altogether and focus on removing an enemy faction from the Saggitarius server."
* [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33] has joined the conversation..[got log?]
13:24:05 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "ctrl c twice by accident"
13:24:12 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "What we can do is all play on the same server"
13:24:15 [=TR=]Leonide: "IE combat, bombing their planets."
13:24:20 [Raven]Banshee: "What can we do? kill everyone farming AI, who then rage quit, and complain to their friends about how much it sucks, who then dont play, then you end up with a dead server and STILL no pvp"
13:24:25 [PB]Pakhos: "@ants , Mv will get alot of players when Admiral servers all full"
* [-GTN-]Piotr-san slaps [-GTN-]Piotr-san in the head...
13:24:33 [PB]Pakhos: "it always been like that "
13:24:34 Jack the Ripper: "18:24:12 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "What we can do is all play on the same server""
13:24:40 Jack the Ripper: "I'll modsay this for boldness."
13:24:41 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "I could go with that option, Banshee."
*
[MODERATOR] Jack the Ripper: "18:24:12 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "What we can do is all play on the same server""


13:24:51 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well I think if we organize like me and Stevey did a few times, we gather people"
13:24:51 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Pete for logic"
13:24:58 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "people come into mv and stay"
13:25:07 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "and it becomes a combat game again"
13:25:12 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "now stay on topic"
13:25:18 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "this ain't a dev meeting"
13:25:16 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "We shouldn't need to organize PvP at set times. It should be there at all times."
13:25:18 Jack the Ripper: "Getting organised and keeping it in one server helps."
13:25:19 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "and we had fun and had combat it lasted hours"
13:25:22 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "yeah but you still need a provoking action ie start capping systems"
13:25:29 [Raven]Banshee: "Isnt the issue the same as it was before? the MV is just too big for too few people"
13:25:35 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "the game IS WHAT IT IS. Its still what do we do?"
13:25:41 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Pretty much, Pete"
13:25:42 Jack the Ripper: "Oh for the love of god."
13:25:48 Jack the Ripper: "PLAYERS cannot change the size of the MV."
13:25:52 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "We can bomb home servers all day and no one will notice"
13:25:55 Jack the Ripper: "What can YOU, THE PLAYERS do."
* [=TR=]Leonide would liek to note that the size is changing next patch
13:26:04 [PB]Pakhos: "@banshee, also mv is much harder for newbies to gain prestige"
13:26:06 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "You sound like Smokey the Bear, Jack"
13:26:07 Jack the Ripper: "Right, so keep it in the sag server."
13:26:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "until smaller maps come, we kinda do have to tho"
13:26:09 [=TR=]Leonide: "so it's a non-issue"
13:26:10 Jack the Ripper: "Promote PVP."
13:26:15 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "What can you do to prevent forest fires?"
13:26:19 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "how"
13:26:21 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "exactly"
13:26:20 [Raven]Banshee: "No, but if you take your head out of your arse for 30 seconds, you will see there is OBVIOUSLY something the DEVS can do to HELP the PLAYERS. Not rocket science."
* [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK slaps [S.W]Crazy Crim in the head...
13:26:46 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "mini events, or by saying "hey, get a cruiser and come over here, we're fighting""
13:26:47 [LAG]LAG: "oK, when a faction dominates a system/server, contact is limited unless players intentionally go into the area, which is part of this discussion. What can be done to force (literally) players to do this? It would most likely involve a code change (which is outside the scope of this discussion). Any thoughts?"
13:26:49 [=TR=]Leonide: "@banshee Shigernafy has done that"
13:26:51 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well thats the problem, Pete. Players are never right when it comes to developing matters"
13:26:59 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we have to pull the people together"
13:26:58 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Ive got a good topic , : What can YOU , THE PLAYERS do to force DEVs to take our opinions into cosideration"
13:27:00 [=TR=]Leonide: "Shigernafy changed the sagg server map, made it smaller"
13:27:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I mean, why the hell are we fleets otherwise?"
13:27:10 Jack the Ripper: "I'll clarify this so everyone understands."
13:27:14 Mr Hyde: "@leo he changed all of them"
13:27:15 Jack the Ripper: "We are working on as much as we can, as fast as we can."
13:27:16 [=TR=]Leonide: "so, it's just us, the devs did something."
13:27:16 [PB]Pakhos: "Since everyplanet is built in mv, there is not much action for newbies but supply"
13:27:21 Jack the Ripper: "We're not paid, we can't work on DarkSpace 24/7."
13:27:23 [Raven]Banshee: "Aye thats one thing, but how do you get people not interested in PVP, into Sag?"
13:27:23 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Easy, Piotr. Not play, unsub, and see what happens."
13:27:26 Jack the Ripper: "We can't pump out a new MV in a few days."
13:27:28 Jack the Ripper: "It takes time."
13:27:33 Jack the Ripper: "This is why this meeting is about what YOU guys can do."
13:27:40 Jack the Ripper: "Becuase we're already working on what we can, as fast as we can."
13:27:56 Jack the Ripper: "There's no point saying "make planets more important to cap" - because we're working on it."
13:28:03 [Raven]Banshee: "Dont think anyone was saying "fix it nao""
13:28:04 Jack the Ripper: "There's no point saying "make the MV smaller", because we're already working on that."
13:28:08 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "how about this: We are all fleet officers here, so what about restricting our fleets to the Sag server for a week or so to see what happens"
13:28:13 Jack the Ripper: "This is why this meeting is about what YOU can do."
13:28:18 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok, enough already"
13:28:21 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "I believe a lot more combat is what will happen"
13:28:25 Jack the Ripper: "All you're doing is re-itterating points that we're already working on."
13:28:28 Jack the Ripper: "And nothing will get solved that way."
13:28:34 Jack the Ripper: "So please, concentrate on what YOu the players can do."
13:28:36 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well there isn't much we can do. While we are fleet leaders, fleet members don't always care about listening"
13:28:40 [PB]Pakhos: "Event : rockie of 2009 ? RANK LIMIT 1 REAR ADMIRAL?"
13:28:42 Jack the Ripper: "Because that's the ONLY way something is going to change RIGHT NOW."
13:28:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "What about fleetwar server maybe? with possible rewards?"
13:29:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "maybe bonus prestige or something"
13:29:09 [PB]Pakhos: "an event for newbies..."
13:29:09 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Wolf can come to ICC, but the players won't exactly like it, and they'll go back to K'luth. We can camp one AI spot, and those wanting to farm that will go somewhere else"
13:29:11 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "There's also a suprising lack of loyalty among players in the game now."
13:29:12 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "Crim what good is a fleet if your members won't listen?"
13:29:35 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Most players join a fleet to be organized on one faction"
13:29:37 Jack the Ripper: "Crim - then don't camp AI spots?"
13:29:40 Jack the Ripper: "Go bomb planets."
13:29:42 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "I like that Idea"
13:29:42 Jack the Ripper: "Take a TON of the MV"
13:29:47 Jack the Ripper: "Then people will have to do something."
13:29:52 Jack the Ripper: "Otherwise there'll be no places to spawn"
13:29:52 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Then we won't see any players in the game, Jack."
13:30:02 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And no, they won't, because they can spawn from gates."
13:30:04 Jack the Ripper: "But you can't know that."
13:30:13 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "theres one problem about fleets now , unsubed players cant join fleets now"
13:30:19 [=TR=]Leonide: "spawning from gates is an issue though"
13:30:22 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "They won't need planets, because they keep their ships when they die aswell."
13:30:25 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "so the playerbase you can influance is limited"
13:30:33 [=TR=]Leonide: "having a way to remove that, and they will be forced to defend their space"
13:30:36 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "I agree on that too Leonide"
13:30:40 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "That is true Pak"
13:30:44 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "To a point"
13:30:53 Feralwulf: "we're small"
13:31:06 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "U wanna know why Kluth join up so much, cause we pull them where we are when they come on"
13:31:02 [=TR=]Leonide: "other than that, attacking enemy faction space is the best players can do"
13:31:14 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "u never see stray Kluth really"
13:31:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "While yes, we can say what players can do to bring PvP to the game, there isn't much we can actually do without Developer help."
13:31:14 [=TR=]Leonide: "bar attacking the players themselves"
13:31:21 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Wolf does that."
13:31:26 [Raven]Banshee: "So once again, key point is, only thing anyone can do, is promote activity without their own fleet, and hope others come along"
13:31:27 Jack the Ripper: "There is plenty you can do Crim."
13:31:30 Jack the Ripper: "Stop being pesimistic."
13:31:45 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Which requires leadership."
13:31:46 Jack the Ripper: "Activity is important."
13:31:50 Jack the Ripper: "There's not been much."
13:32:02 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I don't think its hope Banshee"
13:32:06 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "thats my point"
13:32:02 [=TR=]Leonide: "one or two fleet leaders is a key thing in a faction"
13:32:04 Jack the Ripper: "I've not seen many active fleets to be honest."
13:32:05 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Oharhar, don't cofuse that with being realistic."
13:32:09 [Raven]Banshee: "Fleet leaders should be capable of leading their own people"
13:32:15 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I have seen it happen over and over"
13:32:15 Jack the Ripper: "None taking the bull by the horns, giving it a twist."
13:32:18 [LAG]LAG: "Amongst us, do we (as fleet officers) remove fleet memebers that won't listen? Do we already have a consistent means of identifying them. This would be a good starting point find a common ground as fleet officers, in turn differentiating fleeted vs. unfleeted."
13:32:23 [PB]Pakhos: "amen that"
13:32:35 [Raven]Banshee: "If it happens Az, then thats what needs to continue happening"
13:32:57 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i dont want to repeat myself but fleets are limited nowadays , usubed players cant join them now"
13:33:07 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well that a big part of Kluth success tbh"
13:33:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "its their grouping"
13:33:11 [Raven]Banshee: "Words will only carry so far, physical action is whats going to make the real difference, lead by example"
13:33:13 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "if fleets are to influance the playerbase this limitation would need to be dropped"
13:33:14 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Kicking fleet members won't do much to help have influence over people, LAG"
13:33:19 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "I think some of us in this room have seen the power of leadership and loyalty in other games..."
13:33:20 Jack the Ripper: "Piotr - not something players can change, so pointless discussing it."
13:33:22 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Banshee..."
* [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu cough band of brothers
13:33:35 Jack the Ripper: "The point is that fleets can influence battles. It doesn't have to be fleet-only."
13:33:46 [=TR=]Leonide: "Eve is a good example of a game that requires good leadership to be successful"
13:33:56 [=TR=]Leonide: "bad FC, you lose the battle"
13:33:56 [Raven]Banshee: "Idd Virt"
13:33:59 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "ok but then dont insist fleets can promote anything with their current numbers"
13:34:03 [=TR=]Leonide: "Vs a good one"
13:34:12 [PB]Pakhos: "we can have fleet wars , so that may attract more unfleet users to fleet"
13:34:19 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "look I don't wanna blow my own horn, but wolf changed Kluth around in 2 months by leadership"
13:34:15 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "thats contradicting"
13:34:24 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "so don't give me that"
13:34:24 Jack the Ripper: "Bring fleet-less players along with your fleet."
13:34:24 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "all Wolves are loyal to Az. If he tells us to come fight in Sag we will. Now if only you other factions and fleets will do that"
13:34:26 Jack the Ripper: "Get them to sub."
13:34:29 Jack the Ripper: "Bring them into your fleet."
13:34:30 Jack the Ripper: "Grow in numbers."
13:34:34 Jack the Ripper: "Do things with those numbers."
13:34:36 Jack the Ripper: "Make sexy time."
13:34:37 Jack the Ripper: "Do whatever."
13:34:52 [=TR=]Leonide: "LOL make sexy time"
13:35:04 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "True... but hard to get people to sub to game where there are not that many activwe players"
13:35:07 [PB]Pakhos: "to be sexy , we really need something like fleetwars."
13:35:19 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "Wolf often brings others along, training them as we do"
13:35:39 Mr Hyde: "@pakhos there is an upcoming fleetwars event"
13:35:47 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "INo, staff, question?"
13:35:44 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "pak you mean like more player controled events ?"
13:35:45 [=TR=]Leonide: "we did a fleetwars last patch"
13:35:46 [Raven]Banshee: "Why does it have to be a specific fleetwars server though? its just the same as getting a fleet together in the MV and blowing **** up"
13:35:48 [Admin]Mr Black: "You get 30days subscription time for each new person you can get to subscribe. thats only 1 person you need a month"
13:35:50 [=TR=]Leonide: "it was mildly successful"
13:35:59 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Is a fleetwars server a possibility?"
13:36:01 Jack the Ripper: "Exactly Bansh."
13:36:01 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "what Banshee said"
13:36:08 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "the biggest problem with training players is withing a few days they are shooting the crap outa me"
13:36:10 [Admin]Mr Black: "How about you promote darkspace"
13:36:11 Jack the Ripper: "This is why i pasted what silent said earlier."
13:36:15 Jack the Ripper: "Sticking to one server is important."
13:36:21 [=TR=]Leonide: "hey"
13:36:23 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "not exactly banshee i dont mean to bring this up but the ai tend to interfear"
13:36:28 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "@Az if so, fleetwars has a reputation to NOT be presistant."
13:36:34 [=TR=]Leonide: "what about fleet planning movement events like we did back in .483?"
13:36:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "well I would say a server because you could get bonus points or records / ladders etc"
13:36:40 [Raven]Banshee: "Yeah I understand that Phantom"
13:36:44 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "You know that sub reward idea is a good idea but Two Week would be more... correct imo"
13:36:52 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "some incentive to be on a fleet again"
13:36:50 [PB]Pakhos: "extra 5 days of sub for newbies who join a fleet???"
13:36:51 [=TR=]Leonide: "UGTO planned a huge fleet attack against ICC, and it really spawned some combat"
13:36:54 [LAG]LAG: "Well, I'll go ahead and volunteer some of my time to hold a UGTO corvette training camp event which will ultimately lead to a combat scenario w/ an enemy faction. "
13:37:11 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "Leo we shouldn't have to make an event out of it though, it should always be happening"
13:37:12 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "12:36:10 [Admin]Mr Black: "How about you promote darkspace" <-- I do that, wvwry PC stoire i go in to I change the default web page to darkspace.net :P"
13:37:18 [=TR=]Leonide: "fleet leaders should plan fleet attacks against an enemy, it WILL spawn combat, it worked in .483"
13:37:22 [=TR=]Leonide: "it's not an event"
13:37:26 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "19:36:50 [PB]Pakhos: "extra 5 days of sub for newbies who join a fleet???" <== thats a really good idea"
13:37:26 [=TR=]Leonide: "it's a planned maneuver"
13:37:30 [=TR=]Leonide: "within the faction"
13:37:35 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Planning? In my darkspace?"
13:37:47 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol"
13:37:54 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Not much anymore"
13:37:57 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "yes Leo, that's what i mean"
13:38:01 [=TR=]Leonide: "like "we need X number of stations, dreads, and cruisers, who will take those spots, because we are planning to take X away from UGTO)"
13:38:03 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "i have the same headace Virtu.. i haven't seen that a lot in years.."
13:38:19 [=TR=]Leonide: "we need that to return."
13:38:22 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Ok, I like it leo"
13:38:22 [=TR=]Leonide: "and we need faction forums"
13:38:36 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "13:37:18 [=TR=]Leonide: "fleet leaders should plan fleet attacks against an enemy, it WILL spawn combat, it worked in .483" i agree with you to a point leo but this ant 483"
13:38:36 [=TR=]Leonide: "you remember those, Az?"
13:38:44 [=TR=]Leonide: "when we planned maneuvers last patch?"
13:38:50 [Raven]Banshee: "Its there, you just check the thread to show if all fleet forums of the faction"
13:38:59 [=TR=]Leonide: "it was an example Hawk"
13:39:04 [Raven]Banshee: "show in*"
13:39:12 [=Wolf=]Silent Threat: "I need to leave now people. Good luck. Thanks for understanding Jack."
13:39:15 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "I think the main thing here guys is, you have to understand that probably a large chunk of the playerbase that's attracted for this free play (new players anyway) are probably teenagers that need to have their hands held to get anything done."
13:39:26 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "If you guys don't do anything to lead, nothing will happen, ever."
13:39:36 [=TR=]Leonide: "so, the thing is, each faction needs their leaders"
13:39:42 [=TR=]Leonide: "Kluth has Azreal"
13:39:46 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "aGREED bARON"
13:39:51 [=TR=]Leonide: "UGTO used to have N07, and some CEC"
13:39:58 [=TR=]Leonide: "ICC....uuuhhh..."
13:40:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Not just A fleet....THE fleets"
13:40:03 [=TR=]Leonide: "not sure"
13:40:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Be fleets damnit lol"
13:40:08 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "The average player age here is probably like 16. :|"
13:40:10 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "remember Newbie server ?"
13:40:10 [Raven]Banshee: "Core issue, whats different between the pre .481 days, and now?"
13:40:33 [=TR=]Leonide: "everything, banshee, bar the core game?"
13:40:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I'm an older player so yeah lol"
13:41:00 [PB]Pakhos: "we are out of topic..."
13:41:05 [Raven]Banshee: "Core game isnt really the same, focus has shifted away from a good old explosion fest"
13:41:25 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "this room is at least 30+ years avarage , we got some old geezers here"
13:41:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, we all agree we would like more combat"
13:41:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we all agree we NEED more combat"
13:41:51 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Not so much on HOW, but it points to events"
* [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac looks around so see who the old gezzers are.. oh yeah thats me...
13:42:00 [Raven]Banshee: "So again, how do you make more combat on a game that offers ways to avoid it"
13:42:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Mini events like what Stevey and I did"
13:42:15 [=TR=]Leonide: "i reiterate what i said before."
13:42:15 Jack the Ripper: "Stick to one server."
13:42:18 Jack the Ripper: "Pick a spot to fight over."
13:42:21 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "sorry Louis im cheeky sometimes"
13:42:24 [PB]Pakhos: "@DEV, so, is there a posibility to give extra 5 days to newbies if they join a fleet? that would help newbies by flying vets and train them, showing fleet attacks etc .. and make em sub?"
13:42:25 [=TR=]Leonide: "fleet leaders planning stuff against their enemy positions"
13:42:40 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, We just announced hey we are fighting in Kaus, pull a cruiser and under"
13:42:39 Jack the Ripper: "Pakhos, the two week free trail still works."
13:42:45 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "like 20 people cam"
13:42:44 [Raven]Banshee: "Events are a start, but the missing issue is, how do you get newer people involved in that"
13:42:47 Jack the Ripper: "Get players to redeem their coupons and they can join fleets."
13:42:50 [Admin]Mr Black: "How will that do anything to help?"
13:42:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "then some dillweed pulled a station lol"
13:43:03 [Admin]Mr Black: "They cant join a fleet unless subbed as it stands"
13:43:15 Mr Hyde: "The 2 week free trial works even better now"
13:43:23 [Admin]Mr Black: "And we have the 14 day coupon"
13:43:26 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "and cashing a coupon is not subbing is it Black"
13:43:28 [PB]Pakhos: "it still works, but they wont join any fleet-.. they wont taste the fleet actions ... then they will leave the game forever"
13:43:33 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "They don't have to be on a fleet to come along...."
13:43:32 [Raven]Banshee: "with the game free to 1RA, isnt that a redundant restriction now?"
13:43:32 Mr Hyde: "you can play for free up to 10239 prestige then redeem your coupon"
13:43:34 [=TR=]Leonide: "i don't mean official event"
13:43:40 [=TR=]Leonide: "i mean impromptu attacks"
13:43:52 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Really fleets in this game mean nothing."
13:43:55 [Raven]Banshee: "right Leo"
13:43:59 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "It's just an additional chat command."
13:44:04 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "exactly leo"
13:44:07 [Raven]Banshee: "thats why this is a "fleet" issue"
13:44:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we didn't PLAN what we did"
13:44:17 [PB]Pakhos: "but fleets with more people has more influence.."
13:44:21 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "There's not enough players for communication to be an issue."
13:44:37 [=TR=]Leonide: "the problem though on the ICC side, is that we don't have any good vets, bar the ones in the room here."
13:44:38 [Raven]Banshee: "If the established groups of players step up to the plate, and just fly around blowing **** up, others will join in eventually"
13:44:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we just /yd we were bored, hey I got noobs, wanna do a cruiser and under battle? yeah where? Kaus ok lets roll"
13:44:47 [Raven]Banshee: "even if its a wasted night with no kills, keep at it"
13:44:53 [=TR=]Leonide: "having banshee back to ICC will help"
13:44:56 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "about as spur of the moment as u could get"
13:45:04 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i think so too , the need to sub just to join a fleet is a bad design choice"
13:45:18 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "and alot of noobs and non nubs came"
13:45:30 [Raven]Banshee: "tbh were discussing returning to DS, so will see"
13:45:42 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Banshee has a committee"
13:45:55 [=TR=]Leonide: "committee of awesomeness?"
13:46:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol. Ok. "
13:46:08 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "I have a court."
13:46:23 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, I think we milked this cow."
13:46:34 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "anything else to add on it?"
13:46:42 [Raven]Banshee: "Has to be a committee, cant force anyone to do something they dont want to, which is the point we seem to be missing here. All this needs to be encouraged"
13:46:59 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Agree. Thats what I am doing"
13:46:56 Jack the Ripper: "Exactly."
13:46:56 [CEC]slidevail *S3*: "an u[dated forum post for new players might be in order .... could possibly stear them in the right direction from the start "
13:47:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "and look at how many wanted in on the meeting"
13:47:04 Jack the Ripper: "Quite a lot reeks of "I cba, someone do it for me""
13:47:25 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "the players are LOOKING FOR US to DO something"
13:47:25 Jack the Ripper: "Instead of a few people trying really hard - it helps if everyone does a little bit."
13:47:29 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "don't you see?"
13:47:33 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "yes... we have to encourage the newer players to play as a team and guide them till they can play on thier own and flourish.. otherwise we get the whole two weeks and see yah later players"
13:47:39 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we don't gotta do alot they are eager"
13:47:38 [Raven]Banshee: "So people who dont want to PVP, wont, but can try show them that avenue and its benefits/fun factor"
13:48:18 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "well, they'll make good periodic targets"
13:48:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "some aren't gonna stay, can't be helped"
13:48:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "no combat is what I hear everyone wanting the most"
13:48:56 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Therefore, the factions need to make active steps in providing leadership (preferably a naturally good leader) that random people would be encouraged to follow."
13:49:07 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok. next topic?"
13:49:03 [Raven]Banshee: "So again, Im sorry, but it comes back to a Dev factor, something has to be obtainable through PVP that isnt through PVE, everyone says prestige changes, might be the wrong way. Let em get pres, but not stats (ships damaged etc)"
13:49:05 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Whichever of you that may be."
13:49:10 [LAG]LAG: "Have any of the fleet intentionally requested a combat trial from another faction? (to see how well the noobs do?). I've done this with Azreal in the past."
13:49:18 Jack the Ripper: "We're working on lots of things already."
13:49:20 Jack the Ripper: "It takes time."
13:49:29 Jack the Ripper: "Everything brought up is being worked on."
13:49:30 [PB]Pakhos: "Az, all we can do with current setup is play! WE cant teach every newbie how to fly as long as they are not in our fleets"
13:49:33 [Admin]Mr Black: "Prestige IS stats"
13:49:34 [Raven]Banshee: "Just something to be considered"
13:49:36 [PB]Pakhos: "there are alot of newbies."
13:50:00 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "I think Pete means, make AI prestige Bonus Prestige"
13:50:01 [=TR=]Leonide: "what about darkspace academy?"
13:50:05 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Ok. Well, lets be looking out for opportunities to get it going"
13:50:02 [Raven]Sard the Impaler: "and only Bonus Prestige"
13:50:04 [Raven]Banshee: "So put on a tinfoil hat and change it :P"
13:50:06 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "IY know a noob wars would be a good idea"
13:50:10 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "ive been teaching new guys how to play for months "
13:50:18 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Darkspace Academy has never worked"
13:50:19 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "almost constantly"
13:50:19 [Raven]Banshee: "Pretty much Jon, yes"
13:50:22 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "when u see a few players on, find out whats happening and set something up"
13:50:21 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "Making AI prestige it's own stat would be amusing."
13:50:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "until the maps are shrunk"
13:50:45 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Thats what I think we CAN do ourselves. Easily"
13:50:50 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "Lets us seniour players bring our noobs to a nuetral sector and let them bash it out.. and us upper plaers keep the speace.."
* [FS]Fatal Ants *XO* @110956 Sent "whats the password again?"
13:51:06 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "and this is what this is meant to be all about"
13:51:15 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "thayt could work"
* [PB]Pakhos @41463 sent to Friends: "newbies must have ability to join ffleets, so we can keep track of newbies and their progress!"
13:52:01 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "When a faction has noobs, pull small ships instead of dreads. <---badly stated. let me restate"
13:52:25 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "if there are alot of noobs, try to give them a challenge"
13:52:31 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "if the higher ranks vets whate ever agree to not fly in wipe out the new guys witha station or dreads thats a start"
13:52:37 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "don't just Vaporize them dread style. "
* [PB]Pakhos @41463 sent to Friends: "if at the end they dont stay screw em, but i am sure with fleet tag, we can make some sub!"
13:52:39 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Discuss"
13:52:44 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "the problem with that az is il pull out a dessie and someone in a krill will come and jump me"
13:52:47 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Well, what makes you think the new players want to fight eachother when they can just as easily farm AI for their prestige?"
13:52:55 [Raven]Banshee: "In an ideal world stevey yeah, but realistically, it wont happen"
13:53:04 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Well, thats what /y would be for lol"
13:53:08 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "we older players need to communicate.. with each other... when we have noobs online we need to talk to each other and find a spot and bringas many as we can along so they can fight and get a feel for the PvP"
13:53:22 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "banshee it does happen we have been doing it like this for weeks "
13:53:31 [=TR=]Leonide: "nerf the AI into obilivion."
13:53:35 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "exactly my point Louis"
13:53:54 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "We have done it"
13:53:59 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "we just need more of it"
13:54:09 [Raven]Banshee: "Aye you might have been, but there is always going to be that small group of arseholes that see a fleet of small ships and jizz their pants"
13:54:14 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And again, what makes you think new players will listen to us? From past experiences, most new players don't want to be "bossed around" by "cranky old vets""
13:54:30 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I have to go afk for 1 min. Brb."
13:54:45 [PB]Pakhos: "@bans, we can control fleet mates, but there are alot of unfleet people.."
13:54:58 [Raven]Banshee: "my point exactly"
13:55:04 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "yes banshee that why we are all here now to try and make that less likely to happen as it used to happen all the time"
13:55:31 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "Then don't be cranky...."
13:55:35 [Raven]Banshee: "Agreed Stevey, but again, its only us, we can all sign up, but it doesnt change what other people will do"
13:55:58 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "It isn't cranky to say "Hey, lets go fight other players instead of AI""
13:56:07 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "But the usual response is "STFU im getting prestige""
13:56:27 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "yes i know this but the more ppl we get onboard the better nothing is perfect but we can try make it better"
13:56:54 [PB]Pakhos: "but it isnt their fault,prestige is everything for newbies"
13:56:56 Jack the Ripper: "It might not change what other people do."
13:57:00 Jack the Ripper: "But it can help influence their decision."
13:57:15 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok back"
13:57:32 [Admin]Mr Black: "Make them aware that AI give less pres than players, then"
13:57:32 [Raven]Banshee: "Virt was right in the camping AI areas in a way, if someones fighting AI, go kill them, chances are they will cry for help, people on their faction looking for action should respond"
13:57:38 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "you know thats not a have bad idea Jack"
13:57:38 [Admin]Mr Black: "AI give 50%"
13:57:54 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "so is there any problems with hat idea? to help train the newbs and give them a challenge"
13:57:59 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Oh, I'm sorry Draf, but thats not something WE the PLAYERS can DO, as Jack has said."
13:58:04 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "really its to not discourage them"
13:58:08 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "If players won't fight for planets, take away their ability to farm."
13:58:08 [Raven]Banshee: "could you make AI give bonus pres only?"
13:58:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Er, read that wrong"
13:58:14 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "ohlol."
13:58:16 [-GTN-]-Baron Von Virtu: "That'll draw a reaction."
13:58:17 [PB]Pakhos: "@black , it may be 50% but it is fo sure.. and there is no risk of dying "
13:58:32 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "But again, that %50 is alot easier to get."
13:58:36 [Admin]Mr Black: "No banshee, its too tightly tied into how the game claculates everything else"
13:58:42 [Admin]Mr Black: "calculates"
13:58:46 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "no problem with that if the peaople who are teaching them keep a good attitude and dont teach them bad habbits "
13:58:57 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "then maybe bumb up the AI... Make it stronger.. "
13:59:00 [Raven]Banshee: "bugger"
* [PB]Pakhos slaps [*RSM*]*Steveyk* in the head...
13:59:20 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Hello. topic plz"
13:59:18 [LAG]LAG: "Well, I would think that a multi-faction vet fleet vs. a multi-faction noob/newb (can never get that correct) just to display our ability would shout a clear message to the player base. The message to the new players would define veterans and hopefully encourage them to cooperate. Sounds like fun to me!"
13:59:19 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i always teach my pupils how to exploit the game , they love me for that"
13:59:27 [Raven]Banshee: "problem is Louis, have to keep a way for low ranks to actually advance"
13:59:30 [Admin]Mr Black: "We c oudl see about spawning AI with damage reduction enhancments"
13:59:36 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "Ai and noobs Az"
13:59:48 [Raven]Banshee: "Lets face it, frigates arent going to hurt anything"
14:00:01 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "kluth frigates are awesom"
14:00:07 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "ugto scouts are awesom"
14:00:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Nymph ftw :)"
14:00:09 [Admin]Mr Black: "K'Luth Beak..."
14:00:11 [PB]Pakhos: "indeed"
14:00:15 [Admin]Mr Black: "Or Nymph"
14:00:19 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "2 kluth frigates can beat a crusier and make a dread run"
14:00:23 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "the mini claw"
14:00:26 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "icc frigate sucked.. or at least did the last time i flew them"
14:00:33 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "what was it ? 7 psi cannons"
14:00:40 [Raven]Banshee: "Ok so we see a problem there, where is the incentive to play ICC or UGTO? :)"
14:00:43 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "icc sucks becouse of the power drain"
14:00:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Organize combat in different scenarios to give us new experiences next topic"
14:00:57 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "some bonehead didnt think the drain of 4 shileds would be too much for a scout"
14:01:06 [=Wolf=]Azreal: ";"
14:01:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: ";"
14:01:08 [=Wolf=]Azreal: ";"
14:01:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Organize combat in different scenarios to give us new experiences next topic"
14:02:03 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ok can u give us an example of what u have in mind az?"
14:02:07 [PB]Pakhos: "ermm"
14:02:43 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "there used to be armor in the ICC frigets and scouts, now only sheilds"
* [PB]Pakhos hangs himself
14:02:58 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Failed to join chat room!"
14:03:00 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "thats a dev issue ant"
* Joining 'Fleet Officer Pow Wow'...
* =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[Admin]Faustus broadcasts "SORRY for the server restarts... some config files got changed which shouldn't have been done, things should be back to normal shortly.."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


14:03:25 [FS]Fatal Ants *XO*: "yes, just stating the fact fr the question asked"
14:03:30 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "and thats why itll never be fixed"
14:03:30 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "ok moving on what about the topic of dictirs only being used for defensive "

* Joining 'Fleet Officer Pow Wow'...
14:04:41 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "kkk"
14:04:51 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "sorry my chat stopped"
14:04:55 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok"
14:04:57 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Dictors are offensive and defensive weapons, they do not change the flow of combat. It's up to the players to kill an enemy dictor if it's fielded, not run away from it and cry."
14:05:03 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Az you can still type with one hand"
14:05:10 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "noughty thing"
14:05:17 Feralwulf: "Agreed"
14:05:29 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "My idea was to get combat in other servers."
14:05:44 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "most of us are sick of Sag same old same old"
14:06:00 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "so get combat in some of the other servers. Proc, Lac, Ursa, etc"
14:05:58 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "agreed"
14:06:02 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "most ppl wont play if a dictor is around . most of the time i wont care but if its going to be me by myself vs a hole fleet and a dictor whats the point"
14:06:18 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Crim but kluth dictor can insta cloak thus making it almost idestructable"
14:06:30 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "agree to setup combat in other systems"
14:06:27 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "just decloak for the kill and cloak"
14:06:31 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And? Beacons and ECCM go along way."
14:06:42 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "You guys seem to forget what some of your items actually do."
14:06:56 [PB]Pakhos: "Crim, eccm is rofl tool."
14:07:00 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "no you guys just dont know how useless they are"
14:07:07 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "We need more beacons on more ships I would agree. but we can gripe at them for that later"
14:07:05 [Admin]Mithrandir: "same old same old?!"
14:07:08 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "in 483 mabie but not anymore"
14:07:08 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Beacons slow the cloak timer, you get enough beacons on that dictor when his dumbass decides to uncloak, it's done."
14:07:12 [Admin]Mithrandir: "that's why i changed the map"
14:07:20 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "1 eccm ping makes you visible for 0.5 sec , an ecm can counter eccm pining"
14:07:22 [Admin]Mithrandir: "or tried to, you saw the results with that broadcast"
14:07:25 [LAG]LAG: "No, a dictor is not a problem, it's the players skill level. They are fair ships to use."
14:07:29 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "ECCM can spot a cloaked K'luth ship, have a beacon ship standing by."
14:07:37 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "a scout has only 17 becouse each making you visible for 0.5-1 sec if you hit"
14:07:47 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "you need a fleet to hunt one cloaked dictor"
14:07:50 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "You guys are way to soft to play a PvP game in my opinion."
14:07:56 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Wrong."
14:08:08 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "= we might setup combat in other systems but when you have to check each system, Wher ethe combat i taking place might be annoying. having just ONE place woul be more interesting, unless we promote invasions of faction and change that every week or so."
14:08:11 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "wrong my arse"
14:08:16 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "You can increase the cloak time by .5-1 for each beacon, and if you have any skill, you can land atleast seven of those beacons."
14:08:28 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "That gives you enough time to beat the hell out of that dictor."
14:08:34 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "crim when was the last time u played the game in mv?"
14:08:37 [Admin]Mithrandir: "except only 3 count"
14:08:43 [PB]Pakhos: "piot , just tell them how did u kill me while i was cloaked. u need like 10 eccm platforms and 5 uggies and a dico... not counting weapon platforms"
14:08:44 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Use your ships for what they where ment to be used for, instead of trying to be miss independent"
14:08:59 [Admin]Mithrandir: "You guys seem to forget what some of your items actually do."
14:09:00 [LAG]LAG: "I've taken out cloaked dictor solo (no fleet needed). I disagree."
14:09:06 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Rather recently, Stevey. In the past few days, actually"
14:09:11 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "dictors are "new" again. some just don't know how to deal with them"
14:09:11 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "= might be interesting to set up. one week invasion of UGTO home system, other week luth. gives variation of combat zone and gives the teams a change from offense to defence every one in three weeks."
* [-GTN-]Krim {C?} @43739 Sent "whats the room PW?"
14:09:30 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Crim show me some skill and ill show you a miss independent"
14:09:34 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I like limiting them until the overall skill level is raised up in the game again"
14:09:35 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "and did u get into a fleet battle with kluth?"
14:09:48 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "It's all about if you're willing to put yourself into some kind of risk, instead of shying away from it"
14:10:00 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Yes, I have stevey. And I got atleast four kills, with a K'luth dictor being there."
14:10:06 [LAG]LAG: "exactly ^^"
14:10:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Then again, I don't see a dictor and try to run away."
14:10:15 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ahh so u were kluth"
14:10:22 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I see a dictor, and I go to it."
14:10:29 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "No, I was ICC."
14:10:40 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "see crim"
14:10:38 [LAG]LAG: "I do the same thing as UGTO"
14:10:43 [PB]Pakhos: "then mates of that dico musts be noobs.."
14:10:46 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "that's the old schooler"
14:10:52 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "dictor = target"
14:10:55 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "ok its one thing to put ourself at risk and another to fight a pointless battle"
14:11:00 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "now people don't think that way"
14:11:04 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "thats newb kluth dictor that stayed decloaked all the time"
14:11:16 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "i put myself at risk all the time but i wont fight a pointless battle"
14:11:18 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "try against one that knows how to fly"
14:11:20 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "He wasn't."
14:11:26 [PB]Pakhos: "or didnt use the distance"
14:11:34 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "But when he's cloaked, you have free range to jump and move as you will."
14:11:42 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "- i stand next to crim in a cruiser defending dictor. why do we have a dictor, to defend a local region, preventing close jumps, and to block fools who attacked us from escaping."
14:12:00 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I think that is fine too ele"
14:12:04 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "But again, I know what dodging is, and I can avoid most damage from slow ships."
14:12:19 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "for icc it should be the dictor doctrine.."
14:12:20 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "But when somebody shows up with a dictor, combat scatters"
14:12:45 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "protecting your allies, and form a mobile base of operations.. and not to hunt prey with a few."
14:12:53 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I just think if we limit the use, for now"
14:12:51 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Thats your own factions problem then, you need to teach them that you can still fight with a dictor there."
14:12:51 [PB]Pakhos: "i am certain that dico was a noob"
14:12:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "short term"
14:13:05 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "until skill level comes up"
14:13:07 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "what about rasing the requirements for the dictors then.. leave them in the hands of the senior players that know how/whene/where to use them?"
14:13:11 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Yeah, I think I remember that players name being Pakhos"
14:13:17 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "ohsnap"
14:13:18 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "Hello."
14:13:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "not a bad idea there draf"
14:13:26 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "Internet was down all morning sorry"
14:13:27 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Dictors are fine where they are, Piotr."
14:13:34 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "it is draf, right?"
14:13:36 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol"
14:13:37 [PB]Pakhos: "ouch, i have no dico in my garage"
14:13:40 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "apparently the 500 lb fishtank is crashing the cable..."
14:13:46 [-GTN-]Louis de Pointe du Lac: "Who me?"

14:13:47 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "curhsing*"
14:13:52 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "yes"
14:13:53 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "might be so that it distrubts combat but that is only for other factions. ICC is long range so having 800gu between ourselves and the target is ideal for us."
14:13:53 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "wow, crushing*"
14:13:59 [PB]Pakhos: "but i will be happy to fly one against you whikle my 4 mates taking on you(4 kills u said right)"
14:13:59 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "the dictors come out when its 5v2 etc so nobody is in trested in that "
14:14:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "i am bad with people renaming lol"
14:14:20 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Eledore how can you have 800 range when a dread decloaks at your arse ?"
* =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[Admin]Faustus broadcasts "ATTENTION: All serves should be back up now... the maps have been slimmed down somewhat, you'll find that some planets have been removed from the MV to encourage more conflict... "
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


14:14:35 [Admin]Mithrandir: "booya"
14:14:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "saweet"
14:14:42 [=TR=]Leonide: "lol"
14:14:46 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "that was a good one."
14:14:50 [Admin]Mithrandir: "lazy my devved behind"
14:14:51 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "mind reader"
14:14:57 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol"
14:15:02 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "If a K'luth dread is going to put himself at that much risk for an ICC dread, he'll get creamed"
14:15:16 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "yep lol"
14:15:21 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I love to sit in an AD waiting for that idiot pilot to do that, too"
14:15:31 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "who said about solo play crim"
14:15:55 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "id love to get 3 dreads and a dictor to show up on your arse then"
14:15:55 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "so what ya'll think on dictors? Its all short term no matter what"
14:16:01 [Admin]Mithrandir: "still a few bugs to work out, but its a good start"
14:16:07 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ok its clear we dont all play the same game"
14:16:08 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "you want manage to say boyya"
14:16:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Yeah, wouldn't do much there"
14:16:13 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol"
* [PB]Pakhos begins applauding [*RSM*]*Steveyk*...
14:16:20 [Admin]Mithrandir: "Also of note: In Sagittarius, the only AI are support ships; all combat ships have been removed"
14:16:25 [Admin]Mithrandir: "The number of support ships is pretty low as well"
14:16:32 [Admin]Mithrandir: "the number of AI elsewhere is much reduced too"
14:16:34 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "want = wont*"
14:16:35 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "when a dead decloakes on your ass. you got your fleet mates around you to pown his ass. and ping the bastard, not like he can kill a dictor in a single alpha.."
14:16:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "Stevey, I wish u weren't as new as you are. Old battles here, we do play a different game lol"
14:16:45 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "I think the idea of dictors needs to be handled on a case by case basis..."
14:16:59 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And wait, we're not playing a solo game, remember/ If you're dumb enough to put those three dreads on just me, they'll be handled."
14:17:07 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "coll on the ai in sag"
14:17:09 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "i like"
14:17:10 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "Since there's not going to be consensus here... or in game moment to moment"
14:17:11 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Eledore but its not a solo game "
14:17:29 [PB]Pakhos: "Ele, u are missing fact of kluth , we never attack alone, 2 dreads can kill a cruiser with 2,5 alpha"
14:17:39 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "no crim they blow you up , cloak and move away before your buddies manage to turn around"
14:17:45 [PB]Pakhos: "dico...*"
14:17:47 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "indeed. so how can a luth sneak up on you if there is a ping every 2 minutes ?"
14:17:54 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Because most ICC understand how to dodge, and rotate their shields. Meaning that those three dreads will need atleast four minutes to come close to killing me"
14:17:55 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "ok az but this isnt then its now and things are difrent "
14:17:58 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "No more Sentry Levy and LIttle Heaven! :("
14:18:08 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "Such good Terran planets for SY too ;) lol"
* [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK begins applauding [*RSM*]*Steveyk*...
14:18:39 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i personally dont have anything against it , just saying becouse you guys empethisize range"
14:18:43 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And no, anyone waiting to jump a dread will be trained on my arse waiting for you to show up. Generally when I play with ICC, they have a decent level of skill, unlike a number of K'luth who are rather straightminded in their tactics."
14:18:44 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "."
14:18:45 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "."
14:18:46 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "."
14:18:47 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "."
14:18:49 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "did i even spell ir right"
14:18:50 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "open floor"
14:18:59 [Admin]Mithrandir: "yeah, next patch I need to do a wholesale review of planet types and make sure barrens/ice/terran/etc are all balanced"
14:19:12 [S.W]Crazy Crim: ""Get on ass, follow ass, don't dodge anything else" is the usual K'luth mindset now."
14:19:14 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "alot of u need to get ur heads out of 483 or whatever and start playing this game

* Joining 'Fleet Officer Pow Wow'...
14:20:03 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Again, rotating shields and dodging negates alot of K'luths damage."
14:20:12 [*RSM*]*Steveyk*: "more than i have"
14:20:25 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And yes, I can dodge in a dread rather easily, considering K'luth dreads are incredibley slow."
14:20:40 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "you are badly missguided if you think 3 siphon alphas can be avarted by rotating"
14:20:45 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And thats another thing, if an ICC pilot is sitting still in a dread, it's probably AI."
14:21:06 [LAG]LAG: "I think we all recognize that the skill level of players is an issue and always will be."
14:21:10 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "again nothing against that tactic"
14:21:19 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "it will"
14:21:18 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Chances are, Piotr, I'll be at a good enough distance to where the only things from your alpha hitting me would be your lasers, which rotating will handle that easy"
14:21:22 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "just wanted to get the ICC ranged issue"
14:21:43 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "but we don't groom newbies like we used to"
14:21:53 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And depending on what dread I'm in, I could probably make atleast two of the siphons cloak to avoid getting killed"
14:22:18 [Raven]Banshee: "tbh the whole design concept is wrong, if anyone was going to be a ranged faction, Kluth should be it, cloak makes them ideal, instead, it just negates one entire factions supposed advantage"
14:22:22 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And another thing, while you waste your energy on my aft, I'll be just fine on my energy not wasting my shots."
14:22:25 [PB]Pakhos: "crim, sorry mate but u sound like goth .."
14:22:52 [=TR=]Leonide: "no he does not"
14:23:00 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol."
14:22:56 [=TR=]Leonide: "not by a LOOOONG shot"
14:22:58 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I'm alittle more experienced and informed then Goth, sorry."
14:23:02 [*RSM*]PHANTOMHAWK: "kluth should be close range only"
14:23:15 [LAG]LAG: "so, we were talking about dictors"
14:24:00 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Dictors are fine, LAG. The players aren't"
14:24:07 [LAG]LAG: "Agreed"
14:24:21 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "agreed"
14:24:27 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Players are just soft, thats the only way to put it. They're too afraid to die, even though they keep their ship and enhancements."
14:24:37 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "but we have to teach them or they won't learn"
14:24:39 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "not surprised you 3 agree there"
14:24:52 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "There is no reason now to be afraid of dieing unless they where just promoted."
14:24:53 [LAG]LAG: "agreed^2"
14:25:22 [-GTN-]Krim {C?}: "Well Crim... you should be afraid to die, if there's no fear of losing then you'd just sit there bashing spacebar, or shooting until someone dies. there wouldn't be a need to know exactly when to jump out and such.."
14:25:28 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "if we teach them how to handle a dictor, then it will be like a dictor <sigh>"
14:25:56 [=TR=]Eledore Massis [R33]: "= and teach them how to defend a dictor. thats just as important."
14:26:04 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "agree"
14:26:07 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "I forget, Piotr was part of the PB "Lets farm prestige with CL2ks" gang. He wouldn't exactly get things these days."
14:26:16 [LAG]LAG: "agreed"
14:26:31 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "And yes, we need to teach new players how to use and defend against a dictor."
14:26:37 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "lol. "
14:26:38 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "ok"
14:26:39 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "Crim you have no idea what i was doing when i was in PB"
14:26:51 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "is there anything else anyone wants to bring up????"
14:26:58 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "When i joined PB , they were faction hopinh and showing we could own anybody regardless of faction"
14:27:10 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "You where in PB for .480 and .481, yeah? What else was there to do then."
14:27:13 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "and my favorite ship was Battle crusier with 5 flux , 4 nukes that could own a small fleet"
14:27:20 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "I do have 1 other thing if I may"
14:27:23 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "i was in 1.479"
14:27:39 [LAG]LAG: "OK, this all points to player skill level all-around. What happened to the tutorial? We are not all on 100% of the time. I realize it's related to dev work."
14:27:39 [S.W]Crazy Crim: "Yeah, PB was rather notorious for abusing anything a faction had to win a fight"
14:27:47 [-GTN-]Piotr-san: "before you knew what darkspace was"
14:27:54 [=Wolf=]Azreal: "What would u think of doing this once a month"