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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » New Shield Changes 2: Electric Boogaloo
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 Author New Shield Changes 2: Electric Boogaloo
Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4058
Posted: 2012-02-27 13:48   
Quote:

It's not something you can define with numbers since we had no numbers to work with, values were kept secret, but pretty much anyone who who used smaller ships extensively used them and they worked better than Actives on anything smaller than a Cruiser. Scouts and Frigates rarely get hit unless it's point blank so the lower power use when not charging was good, and the faster regen made up for the higher power drain while charging, it was rare for a Scout or Frigate to run out of power with Reactives, even Destroyers for the people who took a slight bit of risk and used them instead of Actives.



The old reactives used half the power while *not* charging compared to actives. They used the same power drain while charging as actives. If you assume 4 shields total, that's a difference of .16 energy per second. For this wonderful benefit that is only active while your shields do not have any damage done to them, a frigate had:

Actives - 68,145 HP per arc
Reactives - 32,450 HP per arc (With 80% resists: 40,562.5 HP)

You lost around 20khp for an extra .16 energy per second while not charging your shields. An ICC Reactor gives you .24 energy per second, for comparison. I don't find this to be tactically sound at all.


Quote:

T he buff to HP was rather sizeable, yes, but the usefulness of 1 arc that the facing can't be chosen for is questionable. If they were full arc and closest to the hull then they might be worth using.



That's something we <the devs> have to discuss sometime. Thats not going to be changed anytime soon.

Quote:

But here's something you may not have considered, setting all shield facings to the same number key with an aux shield in use that's NOT set to any number key will drain it and add to the other shields when that key is pressed, which is basically the same thing as adding it's regen rate to the actual shields. When you look at it that way it's basically the same thing as having the aux shield boost regen rate for the actual shields, which is why I brought it up.



It's not the same as adding regen rate to other shields because of resistences, except for actives. Even then, you're basically arguing that it's effectively what you want without actually stating on the cover "this is increased regen for shields". You could even argue that chitin armor is increased regen for armor the same way.

I'm still tweaking some numbers before comitting another wave. I might revert these changes before 1.672 is released and then re-add them for 1.673 beta.
_________________


Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2039
From: Michigan
Posted: 2012-02-27 14:28   
Quote:

On 2012-02-27 13:48, Fattierob wrote:
The old reactives used half the power while *not* charging compared to actives. They used the same power drain while charging as actives. If you assume 4 shields total, that's a difference of .16 energy per second. For this wonderful benefit that is only active while your shields do not have any damage done to them, a frigate had:

Actives - 68,145 HP per arc
Reactives - 32,450 HP per arc (With 80% resists: 40,562.5 HP)

You lost around 20khp for an extra .16 energy per second while not charging your shields. An ICC Reactor gives you .24 energy per second, for comparison. I don't find this to be tactically sound at all.



Scouts and Frigates rarely take damage aside from mass fighter spam and beams and are most often at full shields, so the lower energy when not charging made a big difference considering you don't usually see more than 1 aux reactor on most ships smaller than a Cruiser. More often than not you're flying at or close to full speed in a Scout or Frigate to be able to dodge better, meaning you aren't getting much if any energy from your engines so that single aux reactor is what's powering your weapons, shields, and whatever gadgets you may be using so Reactives were a better choice. Destroyers aren't generally a priority target unless it's the biggest ship around or is the only target in range so it was more or less the same situation there.


Quote:

It's not the same as adding regen rate to other shields because of resistences, except for actives. Even then, you're basically arguing that it's effectively what you want without actually stating on the cover "this is increased regen for shields". You could even argue that chitin armor is increased regen for armor the same way.

I'm still tweaking some numbers before comitting another wave. I might revert these changes before 1.672 is released and then re-add them for 1.673 beta.



Not exactly the same, no, but transfering shield strength from aux shields to actual shields with the push of a number key is close.

As far as Chitinous.....you can't transfer armor strength. Besides, Chit has better resistances than Organic, is on the outside, and unless you changed it it's full arc. It would not be worth using at all if it was single arc like Aux Shields are since you're giving up AHR for it.


Leaving the shield changes for the next version sounds like a good idea, it gives more time for you to tweak things and more time for us to test rather than push it out with 1.672 and have to do hotfixes.
_________________
Adapt or die.

CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2012-02-27 19:05   
I need some info please.

1. Is kinetic and energy resistance seprate from kinetic/energy resistance? This question applies to energy/emp, kinetic/psi, and energy/psi resistances as well.

2. Is kinetic and energy damage seprate from kinetic/energy damage?
This question applies to energy/emp, kinetic/psi, and energy/psi damage as well.

If these are seprate, then what weapons only do energy damage?

What weapons only do kinetic damage?

What weapons only do EMP damage?

What weapons do kinetic/energy damage?

What weapons do Energy/emp damage?

What weapons do Kinetic/psi damage?

What weapons do Energy/PSI damage?

I think i know the answer to some of these, but id rather not assume anything. Thanks.
_________________
Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
339,144

Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4058
Posted: 2012-02-27 19:54   
Quote:

On 2012-02-27 19:05, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
I need some info please.

1. Is kinetic and energy resistance seprate from kinetic/energy resistance? This question applies to energy/emp, kinetic/psi, and energy/psi resistances as well.

2. Is kinetic and energy damage seprate from kinetic/energy damage?
This question applies to energy/emp, kinetic/psi, and energy/psi damage as well.




Yes. Weapons can have multiple damage types and armor/shields can have multiple defense types

ie:
Kinetic does 75% damage
Energy does 125% damage
Kinetic and Energy damage can be whatever (it does _not_ have to be the average)


Quote:

If these are seprate, then what weapons only do energy damage?

What weapons only do kinetic damage?

What weapons only do EMP damage?

What weapons do kinetic/energy damage?

What weapons do Energy/emp damage?

What weapons do Kinetic/psi damage?

What weapons do Energy/PSI damage?

I think i know the answer to some of these, but id rather not assume anything. Thanks.




http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2042421/DarkSpace.xlsx should answer those questions. Missiles are generally kinetic/energy.
_________________


Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
Posted: 2012-02-27 21:06   
Quote:

On 2012-02-27 19:54, Fattierob wrote:
Yes. Weapons can have multiple damage types and armor/shields can have multiple defense types

ie:
Kinetic does 75% damage
Energy does 125% damage
Kinetic and Energy damage can be whatever (it does _not_ have to be the average)




Is it a random number between the two values.... so if Kinetic alone would do 10 and energy would do 15 (just pulled these numbers out of a hat) would a kinetic/energy weapon do 10-15 damage?


[ This Message was edited by: Loyalty *TO* on 2012-02-27 21:09 ]
_________________

Names I used: Da Bes Loser, Perseverance, Loyalty.

CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2012-02-27 21:12   
thanks for the answers rob... but i think your link is just the defense gadgets over again.

Link the wrong thing?
_________________
Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
339,144

Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4058
Posted: 2012-02-27 21:28   
Quote:

On 2012-02-27 21:06, Loyalty *TO* wrote:
Is it a random number between the two values.... so if Kinetic alone would do 10 and energy would do 15 (just pulled these numbers out of a hat) would a kinetic/energy weapon do 10-15 damage?




No. The kinetic and energy weapon would do whatever damage I told it to do (it could be 12.5, it could 4, it could be 25, whatever)




Quote:

On 2012-02-27 21:12, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
thanks for the answers rob... but i think your link is just the defense gadgets over again.

Link the wrong thing?




Check the other sheets besides the first one.
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