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[FAQ
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 Author Something added
SPaRTaN Z
Chief Marshal

Joined: June 26, 2009
Posts: 235
Posted: 2011-12-14 07:48   
So shiger, what is it?

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Achilles Lord of the Myrmidon
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion


Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 327
Posted: 2011-12-14 08:22   
New frigate for UGTO. Is a torp frigate

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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness


Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 531
From: Red Lobster
Posted: 2011-12-14 13:40   
I was in scen the other day and realized how everyone but ugto has a torp frig.

EDIT Its ds first CM ship.... with 9pcannons and 10 torps... lol

Now K'luth just needs its missle frig
[ This Message was edited by: xTc *XO* on 2011-12-14 13:53 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2039
From: Michigan
Posted: 2011-12-14 13:58   
Luth gets a Destroyer with a ridiculous amount of Torps and Disruptors, and ICC has a Destroyer with a ridiculous amount of Torps.....and a single IC?

Worth noting all of these ships had wet toilet paper plastered to their hulls for defenses.

And although I can't actually test any of these ships since I'm not CM, I have to say I think a super Scout would be more fitting for ICC.
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Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness


Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 531
From: Red Lobster
Posted: 2011-12-14 14:09   
Im such a long way from CM....

But i guess it rewards those players who have put in the time to achieve chief marshal rank, you get a ship with insane DPS but almost no armour
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-12-14 15:57   
let me get this strait.

NO YOU CANNOT HAVE MODDING BACK BECAUSE INSAINE SHIPS GET BUILT

(dev team goes and makes insaine ships for CM)



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339,144

Fattierob
Vice Admiral

Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4058
Posted: 2011-12-14 16:35   
Quote:

On 2011-12-14 15:57, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
let me get this strait.

NO YOU CANNOT HAVE MODDING BACK BECAUSE SHIPS THAT AREN'T BALANCED GET BUILT




Fixed this for you.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-12-14 16:59   
both the K'luth and UGTO CM ships do really well against other small ships due to cannons, for ugto, and beams, for Kluth.

The Kluth CM ship seems primary built for attacking other small ships, as it lacks defense on three sides. (usability, Fair)

The UGTO CM ship due to its size, layout, speed, and manuverability is kryptonite for ICC small ships. Its stock top speed is 40gu/sec. It has one four arc plate of armor, and one fore plate of armor. (Usability, Great)

The ICC CM ship is outfited with 4 chem beams, butt loads of torps, and one Ion Cannon. The Ion cannon is good for getting the attention of AI at long distance, and torps work great against them (AI). This ship is a real AI killer, though the Kluth, and UGTO CM ships do nearly as well. If your facing a player though, Make sure your target is a station. (Usability, OK)



I cant think of one ship ICC has that would be a proper match for the UGTO CM ship.

I think the UGTO CM ship is way over the top. The Kluth and ICC CM ships are just a novelty with no real role, but the UGTO CM ship is simply amazing at killing other small ships! ICC's primary force is small ships. UGTO has many many many CM. See?


This is not completly a gripe though. Thanks for finaly giving something for CM rank.

I think, however, that the CM ships should just be basicly the same ship everyone else can get, exept with a boosted stat or stats.

Extra energy for UGTO maby.

Extra speed or defense for ICC

Extra armor, attack power, or faster cloak for Kluth.

More manuverability?

EW suites?

Extra ammo?

Multi role (bombs, Reloades, Build Drones, Fighters)?

Faster JD?

Unique Color (hull, trail, beams, projectiles)?

More firing arcs?

maby a ship with boosted stats for every class? All factions CMs gets a CM scout, frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Dread, and Station?





[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2011-12-14 17:07 ]

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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1742
Posted: 2011-12-14 17:05   
We're not going to balance anything based on how many CM's there are on each faction. That would be idiotic.

CM ships should not be 'better', but different. Compared to their normal counter-parts, they have more points, but its spent in weaponry, and not defences (which also suffer extra as more points get shifted to weapons).

They are not designed to be Dreadnoughts weapons in a Drestroyer hull. Anyone expecting that will be sorely disapointed.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2011-12-14 17:07 ]
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 293
Posted: 2011-12-14 17:34   
YES! finally a ship for CM...and what a ship! a crazy berserker? ooooh nice idea, i wonder who thought that one up

ill be in beta soon
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Brutality
Marshal

Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
Posted: 2011-12-14 18:25   
looks like I better get my butt in gear and get to CM now that there is a reason to.

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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse


Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2011-12-15 04:19   
what about marshal-rank ships ? :-|


also the ugto CM ship should not be a frigate, because frigates dont have resource/shipyard requirements. also a should-note, frigates dont lose pres.

think about a CM getting into scenario on ugto and killing enemies repeatedly because he can spawn them from any home gate and replace it with a new one, without a second thought.


bye bye peregrine strike frigate, it was nice not knowing u
[ This Message was edited by: Compromisery on 2011-12-15 04:32 ]
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 293
Posted: 2011-12-15 05:52   
so...add a tech requirement for the CM frigates?

a CM ship suppose to be good
[ This Message was edited by: Iron E on 2011-12-15 05:54 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral

Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
Posted: 2011-12-15 06:48   
This is all useful feedback - so thanks. The intent was just to tweak ships to be skewed in one direction instead of well-rounded, so the overall point value of the ships is right about the same as the "standard" for that class, except that armor tends to cost a fair few points - so if you remove a layer, you can actually fit quite a few weapons on. And if those weapons are all fore-mounted, as these ships tend to be, then they count for very little in the point scheme. Thus, your ships move from generic ships able to do something ok to a very specialized ship able to do something very well (namely dump torps on something) but everything else rather terribly (namely, survive any attacks). Thus, you can be a powerful foe in them, but it requires more thought and skill in dodging and setting up your attacks.

However, we have a small dev team and most of the feedback on the ships was to their "on paper" design. I did a brief bit of testing in beta long long ago, but you really need a decent sized engagement to really see how they do in a melee with people who actually know what they're doing (versus me).

SO, if you do have feedback, like Defiance's, I'm happy to hear it. As is standard, I can't guarantee I'll actually DO what you suggest, but I do at least want to know how stupid crazy you think the ships are and what tweaks they could have to make them more "fair" but still a fun little novelty. Or things like the frigate gate-spawn-in-scenario problem: that's good to know and something I didn't consider. Though the way the gate spawn code works, I don't think I can make just this one ship not gate spawnable; I think its set in the ship class code. So it would probably just have to be moved to a destroyer to avoid that problem.

And if you do want a Marshal ship as well, that can probably be arranged. Suggestions welcome.
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Shigernafy
Admiral

Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
Posted: 2011-12-15 07:02   
Quote:

On 2011-12-14 16:59, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
I think, however, that the CM ships should just be basicly the same ship everyone else can get, exept with a boosted stat or stats:



Extra energy for UGTO maby.
Reactors give significantly less energy than an engine does, so to give them a meaningful difference, they either need a pile of reactors, or an engine.. but the engine will change their acceleration, speed, turning, etc.
....or I suppose I could put in a Reactor 1000 or something (instead of the Aux Gen we now use) and tweak its stats to make it useful


Extra speed or defense for ICC
that's already a design characteristic of these ships, so that's both easy and agreeable

Extra armor, attack power, or faster cloak for Kluth.
can't modify the cloak on a per-ship basis. others obviously we can do, though the extra armor mass on a small ship would make it turn like a mack truck

More manuverability?
cant tweak on a per ship basis, other than lightening mass or giving engines. i can check if the mass code handles signed ints and make the ship negative, I guess, so it'd turn faster, but that's an ugly hack

EW suites?
aren't there already EW ships?
the problem with this is basically that (i think) you're saying you want to take a normal ship and just add something more on it, to make it more versatile. but the idea was basically to make the ship very powerful in a sense, but also very limited in its use - because its weak in armor, only good against large targets, or whatever. we've been trying to move away from do-it-all type ships for a while and I don't want to give that back to CMs or really anyone


Extra ammo?
can't be changed per ship. its a gadget setting. i'd have to duplicate every gadget we wanted to change and then add them to just one ship. that's not good design...

Multi role (bombs, Reloades, Build Drones, Fighters)?
see above. it'd be nice, sure, but against our current design preferences

Faster JD?
like ammo, that'd require a duplicate. can do it, i suppose, but creates more gadget clutter. though if i did it on all MA and CM ships...

Unique Color (hull, trail, beams, projectiles)?
all ships of a given hull design pull from a single file, so hull would require a duplication. and duplicating models is actually remarkably hard in the resourcer
trail we can do.. already have a handful of specials there
beams would require a duplication
as would projectiles
since they both reference a single file, like hulls. that said, to make these "special" I might just have to get over my "don't want to duplicate" aversion


More firing arcs?
you mean better ones, ie take a harrier and make it all full mount? or different ones?
as I mentioned in my previous post, the idea was to just skew the points in a ship. improving their arcs would cost more points and thus make the ships objectively "better." the theory with the points shifting rather than increasing is that they're theoretically not better overall, just better at something. so this would be problematic in that regard as well


maby a ship with boosted stats for every class? All factions CMs gets a CM scout, frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Dread, and Station?
that's a lot of new ships to make... just these three took how long since CM was introduced?
and frankly, the idea was to get people flying around in small ships. giving CMs a super station would make the game even lamer. unless it was stationary...



[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2011-12-15 07:03 ]
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