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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » Loss of the full arc plate on stations
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 Author Loss of the full arc plate on stations
Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal

Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
Posted: 2011-06-22 21:23   
Are we sure that's the best idea considering the significant offensive buff to dreads? Stations might be far too frail now, especially battle stations with no full arc plate and only 1 repair drone...

Edit: But i guess this will certainly bring UGTO stations more in line with ICC stations in terms of survivability...
[ This Message was edited by: Chewy Squirrel {om nom nom nom nom} on 2011-06-22 21:25 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2011-06-22 23:04   


Er... YAY ?

No more tank shrooms. So finally they'll be used as the support platforms, and not frontline units, that they shd be.

Gotta test this in Beta.
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Athenian General
Fleet Admiral

Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 205
From: Pacific Northwest - USA
Posted: 2011-06-22 23:48   
Shrooms are still pretty deadly close range, although the armour rating is thankfully reasonable now.

EDIT: I'd say that how it is now (in beta) is perfect. Deadly enough to instagib any dread foolish enough to 1v1, and provide significant firepower for a well balanced fleet, yet fragile enough to provide the role it's supposed to - Fleet support. Shrooms now need an escort to prevent getting ganged by a several dreads, as it should be.

(If I hit FA/GA, I'll try and test the various stations against each other. (SS vrs SS, LS vrs BS, etc.) Not sure how long that will take however.)



[ This Message was edited by: Athenian General (CO) on 2011-06-23 00:01 ]
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Chief Marshal
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Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2011-06-23 00:35   
what do you mean loss?

stations have 4 one-arc armor and 1 four-arc armor. in beta they have 8 one-arc armor.

doesn't that mean stations now have 60% more armor?

if a station does not turn then in 1vs1 you won't see a difference in damage dealt.
if the station turns then you have to deal with four armor plates instead of three. if it turns more then you will face six armor plates compared to four in release, and finally 8 compared to 5.

unless you can obliterate 2 station-grade armor plates and station hull in 45 degrees/5 degrees per second=9 seconds, you will have to destroy unnecessary armor plates, givin the station pilot extra benefit in endurance compared to v1.660.

luckily extra armor means that stations have less place for other devices. support focuses on missiles and repair, battle focuses on beams and cores, while command focuses on utility and fighters. no more fighterspam.
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal

Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
Posted: 2011-06-23 00:44   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 00:35, Inactive-001 wrote:
what do you mean loss?

stations have 4 one-arc armor and 1 four-arc armor. in beta they have 8 one-arc armor.

doesn't that mean stations now have 60% more armor?

if a station does not turn then in 1vs1 you won't see a difference in damage dealt.
if the station turns then you have to deal with four armor plates instead of three. if it turns more then you will face six armor plates compared to four in release, and finally 8 compared to 5.

unless you can obliterate 2 station-grade armor plates and station hull in 45 degrees/5 degrees per second=9 seconds, you will have to destroy unnecessary armor plates, givin the station pilot extra benefit in endurance compared to v1.660.

luckily extra armor means that stations have less place for other devices. support focuses on missiles and repair, battle focuses on beams and cores, while command focuses on utility and fighters. no more fighterspam.



Hmm you're right, disregard me, I'm crazy
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 708
From: Shadows
Posted: 2011-06-23 01:05   
Wait.. so that means shrooms just got a armour boost, and are now op tanks.....

please tell me thats not right...
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1351
From: Clean room lab
Posted: 2011-06-23 01:33   
I havent checked it yet.

But what can you expect stations to be while dreads are insanely poweful comparing to last version?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2011-06-23 02:28   

Then let's hope that;

a) The armor boost is given to all stations, and not just those damned shrooms.

b) 1.670 will also put a 5 depot limit on planets. Otherwise this is just another cop-out to Shroom users.
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CM7
Midshipman
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Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-06-23 03:29   
ugto SS repair rate is insane.

not overcomable... but one vs one is not going to be advisable.

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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2011-06-23 04:24   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 03:29, Defiance*XO* wrote:
ugto SS repair rate is insane.

not overcomable... but one vs one is not going to be advisable.





Not overcomable or not unovercomable?


So rep drones are OP?
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-06-23 04:57   
no, it just has more armor plates, there for faster rep rate.

not tooo bad.. but noticable.. expecialy when spinning.. (it does however spin slower)
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
Posted: 2011-06-23 08:35   
The stations seem alot less universally powerful though.

They certainly do considerable damage, but they're also more specific in their roles.

Support Stations have no fighter support anymore (only Command versions do). Nothing but long range missiles means that good EWAR support means you kill roughly 80% of their DPS. Don't get in range of the beams, spam torps and core weapons and the repair rate won't hold up against sustained fire.

Battle Stations are more medium ranged, and are focused around core weapons and beams. So long range missile/fighter spam will essentially nullify its ability to fight back.

Then you have Command Stations which are just a combination of all of the above, but has build capabilities. When we get command modules, it will be truly useful.

As you can see yes they are very strong, but testing has revealed that all stations:

1. Have very blatant weaknesses. A station without support is a very slow, big target that any enemy aware of it won't have a problem taking it down (don't use an EAD to take down an Kluth Nest).

2. They're still strong enough to take down a single dread on their own no matter what, unless you can stay hidden or keep your weapons hidden.

3. They have alot of energy, but the drain is significant enough that trying to move and fight will send you zero, and even not moving will eventually send you to zero.

4. They have a distinct lack of EWAR. Like quite a few ships now, EWAR is more of a rarity. It makes sneak attacks alot easier and stops blanket ECCM and thus, long range weapons are extremely effective.

So all in all, much more effective balancing, though I am interested in seeing how the ICC stations turn out.



-Ent
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Ray[OU]
Marshal

Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 189
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
Posted: 2011-06-23 09:40   
Hmmm no more fighters on station except the command stations hmm im ok wit the no fighters on the line station and the ugto and kluth version but i do think the SS's do need fighters *sigh* looks like ill be scrapping more ships now i like ships who do more then 1 thing the support stations currently
1) repair ship
2) carrier (is able to luanch fighters)
3) performs as a ICC MD (luanches lots of missles)
now from looking at the UGTO SS it has repair capabilitys same no change but now it has less missles and can no longer carry fighters thats taking 1 off its current role the role of this station is to support hence support station its suppose to support from a distence missles and fighters are capable of doing so its just like in release ill have to scrap my CC
as i said in a prevouse thread some where its current roles are
1) carrier
2) engineer
3) bomber
and in release its only carrier and engineer tho you can refit with bomber fighters its not the same unless you make bomber fighters more powerfull its gonna take a lot longer to cap a planet all by it self now back to the stations ok if ya want the SS's to perform less roles then it already can NOT fine with me but you insist on nerfing the game then so be it not much i can do bout it :/

[ This Message was edited by: Grand Admiral Ray [OU] on 2011-06-23 09:42 ]
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Chief Marshal
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Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2011-06-23 10:35   
Quote:

but i do think the SS's do need fighters

the support stations currently
1) repair ship
2) carrier (is able to luanch fighters)
3) performs as a ICC MD (luanches lots of missles)

now from looking at the UGTO SS it has repair capabilitys same no change but now it has less missles

ill have to scrap my CC

and in release its only carrier and engineer tho you can refit with bomber fighters its not the same unless you make bomber fighters more powerful


please reconsider

repair drones will be tweaked to be better in solo and not OP in groups.

support stations have less missiles. 8 in beta compared to 8x2 in release. but these new missiles are *cough* the strongest warheads in the wide wide galaxy. the new support stations are closer to the MD configuration, carrying 8 heavy missiles with more damage due to weapon levelling.

that extra damage and extra armor means no room for fighters.

also bomber fighters (and fighters in general) would probably be tweaked in the future to bring their damage (and maybe usefulness) in line with increased structure HP (reason why PSM damage was tweaked too. just wait for 2 weeks™ pl0x). believe in the mushroom dread (no offense to uggyheads stations which were too fat to be downsized )

also, battle and command have only 1 repair drone. obviously, the support class is now 3 times better in repair capability (up from 1.5 times in release). thats a buff imo.

so plz. new stations are well balanced. support has reduced close range damage while having high long range and medium range damage.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
Posted: 2011-06-23 11:02   
Fighters in a future update as far as I'm aware are going to get a significant boost.

That being said, I think giving all stations fighter capability is a really bad idea.

Making any one ship universally good is bad. Just plain bad. The new layouts are perfect examples of how ships should be. Good for a role, but with big, obvious weaknesses. Support Stations can't have everything, just like assault Class Stations can't either. You pick your role and you stick with it.

Support Stations are not designed to be offensive, merely advocating more firepower for them goes entirely against its purpose. Its not there to be a giant, indestructible weapons platform, its there to server as support, primarily in the repairing depatment.

People are going to get a rude awakening when depots get nerfed. Folks are so used to being able to repair their Dreadnaught to full capacity in under a minute. This being changed dramatically increases the usefulness of those reload drones, and makes it so that stations can't make themselves into a giant tank.

Every ship should be vulnerable. The fact that stations as they stand now can withstand ridiculous amounts of damage is purely due to the oversight of how effective reloading armor can be. When that changes you better be ready to learn how to really play.

That means, if you bring out a station, you better have support.

If you bring out a Dreadnaught, you better hope you have EWAR support.

That means if you bring out a cruiser, you better pick the right one for the role you want to fill. You can't be everything.

And every ship in between knows that smaller ships get back to full health far faster than bigger ones. Which means if you get hulled, you better be prepared to wait more than 30 seconds.

Its how DS really comes to life as a tactical PvP game. You weigh the risks and the rewards, the pros and the cons, and you decide how to play. This patch is the greatest advancement towards teamwork since .480, and I cannot wait to see it in action.

People might gripe, but let them. I want a game where everyone doesn't fly the same ship all the time. So no, you don't get fighters on every station, or missiles on every dread, or ECCM on every cruiser. You play by the rules, and you play to rely on your friends.

Seriously, this patch is so cleverly disguised to encourage teamwork that every person that has henceforth relied on dread spacebar mashing and depots is in for a very rude awakening.




-Ent
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