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Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » Dev Meeting Log 05/10/05
 Author Dev Meeting Log 05/10/05
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy

Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4031
From: The Gideon Unit
Posted: 2005-05-10 22:55   
[Admin]Tael broadcasts "Short Dev meeting starting now, Beta Lobby - Room Beta discussion."

19:12:24 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so the ICC defense bases dont have any close anti ship def at all?"
19:12:26 [Admin]Tael: "Ok, So F isnt able to make it today, he emailed me earlier but still wanted me to hold a short meeting..."
19:12:55 [Admin]Tael: "ICC Def. Bases currently have no anti-ship weapons at this time..."
19:13:10 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "besides ITs"
19:13:15 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "why?"
* [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise has entered the room...
19:13:40 [Admin]Tael: "they hide behind their shields..."
19:13:55 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "guess that works out"
19:13:59 [Admin]Tael: "thats how they were designed in the last round of structure updates..."
19:14:12 [SYN]Antdizzle: "..."
19:14:21 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: "how is F going with the new server?"
19:15:15 [Admin]Tael: "The new server and its status is something F would have to answer, I dont know, I do know that he got several of the modules to compile on the linux box, but not enough to run the server yet, so there is good news, but still a ways to go."
19:15:40 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Hire a unix server admin, it would go a lot faster. "
19:15:47 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Wait..."
19:16:20 [Admin]Tael: "The non-joinable fleets in the list because the Dev's need to access those ships to test them before turning them over to the AI's to fly... Thats why you see them but cant join them, only devs can access them."
19:16:34 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "oh"
19:16:57 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "why cant you let most players test em?"
19:17:03 [Admin]Tael: "I asked F to have them hidden from view for non-staff, but apparently he didnt do that... Going to have to hammer on him again to hide them in the display if you are not staff."
19:17:50 [Admin]Tael: "because people werent testing, they were all just getting in them just to get in them. When I came in and found 10 Mir and only 2 UTGO, it was pretty obvious no serious testing was being done."
19:18:20 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I dont think mods will come to beta often"
19:18:21 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Hire beta testers."
19:18:24 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Wait..."
19:18:25 [Admin]Tael: "Also, the AI fights differently than people, so we have sepperated it again so it can start learning."
19:18:44 [Admin]Tael: "Actually even mods cant fly them, only Dev and Admins"
19:18:49 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "you'd be surprized trekkie"
* [CEC]Kanadaien ^_^ has entered the room...
19:20:03 [Admin]Tael: "Another reason we have sepperated them is because we are getting close to including their actual devices and dont need to deal with anyone stripping them to put on another ship and to keep some of their special devices a mystery."
19:20:24 Maskerade: "How adaptive will the AI be? "
19:20:34 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "Ive only seen mods in the room when they were testing out mir, and very rarely other hten that..."
19:20:41 [SYN]Antdizzle: "When they are released will we be able to get prestige off of them?"
19:20:44 [Admin]Tael: "they've been using human devices for testing purposes, we are now going to start rolling out their own weapons."
19:21:14 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "whats keeping us from getting them when we kill them?"
19:21:35 [Admin]Tael: "already had to many issues with people stripping the SE drives out of them, so want to keep their weapons something to guess about."
19:21:37 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they faction only?"
19:21:59 [Admin]Tael: "A flag we can enable so they dont drop loot, just like monsters dont"
19:22:00 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I dont like their SE drives, speed and power, but no acceleration..."
19:22:15 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so we cant get anything off them at al?"
19:22:17 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "all*"
19:22:31 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "no metal, no nothing"
19:22:36 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Mir ships are larger than normal cruisers, etc but will sometimes go under our ships, but the armour ring doesn't go down "
19:22:57 [Admin]Tael: "Not for the remaining of the test, but will reopen them at release."
19:23:03 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah that causes some annoying lag...."
19:23:09 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "ive seen that with ugto ships (read stations) as well"
19:23:08 [Admin]Tael: "As for pres for fighting them..."
19:24:19 [SYN]Antdizzle: "I hope isn't that slow of a typer."
19:24:30 [Admin]Tael: "The AI's are ment to be a tough and menacing, and they give something else for lower ranked players to do in the MV. Lower ranked/shipped players will earn pres for them, but as you increase in rank you earn less and less pres for them."
19:24:33 [SYN]Antdizzle: "That didn't come out right. "
19:24:58 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "he probably rewords what he says..."
19:25:03 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "They should provide some sort of incentive besides survival for higher ranked players."
19:25:04 [SYN]Antdizzle: "If they are so tough how would a lower ranked player kill them???"
19:25:11 [Admin]Tael: "Thus Admirals and GA's will get nothing for hunting AI's since for them its not requiring much skill."
19:25:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "thats why they get more..."
19:25:29 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "hey what if they all attack us... "
19:25:30 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Will beam weapons be getting a boost in damage? Currently, particle weapons have longer range, less energy use, just as accurate as beams within beam range, and don't have reflective armour to deal with."
19:25:40 [Admin]Tael: "Chromix and I are working on training the AI's."
19:25:43 [SYN]Antdizzle: "OMG"
19:25:48 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I say mir are for the Captains and above, and the other faction for the Commanders and below..."
19:25:49 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Change your chat color."
19:26:00 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "I thought you already had a script for them Tael."
19:26:13 [CEC]Lonectzn: "First the colour, next your name Ant "
19:26:22 [Admin]Tael: "Chromix came up with a whole new AI control... Its more less CPU intensive and more adaptable than the old one."
19:26:50 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "..and more deadly I hope."
19:26:51 [SYN]Antdizzle: "I don't want ships shooting me and I can't get prestige for getting them off me."
19:26:53 [Admin]Tael: "Instead of going after the closest ship or the last one to fire on it, it assess each ship and determines its threat factor."
19:27:13 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "oh so it will ignore me"
19:27:19 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Yeah, they said that for Halo 2, didn't work. "
19:27:19 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "Im a threat to no one"
19:27:36 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "not true..."
19:27:38 [Admin]Tael: "It then compares its threat factor to theirs, if its lower it will engage with other ai's, if its higher, there is a chance it will engage alone."
19:27:44 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they do you just happen to always be the biggest threay"
19:27:47 [CEC]Lonectzn: "How do they deal with planets? That's the biggest problem with release AI. An AI will just go and sit by an enemy planet that is pummeling it."
19:27:48 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "threat*"
19:27:49 [-GTN-]Starfist: "just dont let bito in the training of the Ai or they all will be hitting planets "
* [SYN]Antdizzle shoots himself...
19:28:12 [Raven]Kitsune {Kamikaze!}: "Haha, have it, when it targets you, do an automated /t at you. Like, "You're dead meat, $d".."
19:28:17 [Admin]Tael: "The current AI just goes after what attacked it last..."
19:28:23 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "Old Entities = Mother of all Planet rammers."
19:28:36 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "oh yeah those were cool"
19:28:56 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "well the CEs anyway"
19:29:04 [Admin]Tael: "The new ones are being trained in object avoidence. We are teaching them planets and they know their most effective range of theirs and your weapons."
19:29:23 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "oooh so theyll know I have guns with a range of 3500 gu"
19:29:31 [Admin]Tael: "in fact the AI's in school will keep moving out of your weapon range while still getting good hits on you."
19:29:33 [SYN]Antdizzle: "I have a feeling they will come out too strong."
19:29:33 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so theyll dodge"
19:29:41 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "I hope they do."
19:29:51 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "I hope their strong as hell. Gives a challenge."
19:29:58 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah"
19:30:01 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "be nice"
19:30:11 [SYN]Antdizzle: "There is a fine line between challenge and just over doing it."
19:30:19 [Admin]Tael: "The last smart ai we tested took on chromix and I... all 3 in destroyers, we fought for 20 minutes before killing it"
19:30:24 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "as I said Mir will fight the Admirals more and the lower ones will fight the lower ppl more"
19:30:29 [Admin]Tael: "these should be a little tougher."
19:30:38 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yay"
19:30:51 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Who would want to spend 20 minutes trying to kill AI?"
19:30:54 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so they wont do like what most players do and shoot at the smallest targets"
19:30:56 Josef: "Gaifen arn't smart"
19:31:01 [MoD]Yitram: "lol nitron"
19:31:07 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "I would Ant, if there was something good in it."
19:31:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they dont need to be"
19:31:11 [Admin]Tael: "the Mir are ment to be big scary, huge ships. they dont have any small ships, nore do they have a station..."
19:31:22 [Admin]Tael: "but their supply, engineer, cruiser, and dreads are oversized..."
19:31:29 [Admin]Tael: "also meaning a bigger target area..."
19:31:30 Josef: "Just the way I like 'em"
19:31:34 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the other AI faction getting a station and a ton of small ships?"
19:31:40 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Dread is just a mobile station"
19:31:45 [SYN]Antdizzle: "I guess..."
19:31:46 [Admin]Tael: "the AI faction are all smaller weaker ships..."
19:31:56 [-GTN-]Starfist: "will the AI be capping planets"
19:32:00 [Admin]Tael: "but are slotted for a station."
19:32:22 [Admin]Tael: "The AI supplys are being trained to follow combat ships and resupply them."
19:32:41 [Admin]Tael: "they already repair damage, but still need to learn about low ammo"
19:33:40 [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise: "So do fighters."
19:33:52 [Admin]Tael: "The AI's only understand basic threats at this point, now we need to go through and code identifiers for all the weapons into the code, currently they know only to watch for all 3 torps, 3 of the 6 mines, and rail guns"
19:34:11 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Make them understand that I am their god."
19:34:18 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah railguns the ultimate threat"
19:34:24 [SYN]Antdizzle: "I can use them like Jem'Hadar."
19:34:32 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "they wont watch for homing mines?"
19:34:34 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "is that why they decided to run right into me and my particle cannons?"
19:34:36 [Admin]Tael: "The Fighter AI update is slated to be in the next patch as its not integral to everything else we are trying to close out."
19:34:59 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so we can order them after we launch?"
19:35:09 [Admin]Tael: "We havent taught them Homing mines, Chromix gave them a basic understanding, only I have the list of all devices. So its up to me to train them."
19:35:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they*"
19:35:18 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Tael, will ai ships know to stay close and coordinate targets"
19:35:32 [CEC]Lonectzn: "That would really bump up the difficulty"
19:35:38 [Admin]Tael: "You havent seen the smarter AI's yet, only Chromix and I have the scripts... and they are not running in the server yet."
19:35:45 [Admin]Tael: "the ai's you have seen are the basics."
19:35:56 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "like Tango"
19:35:57 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Tael will the AI have a neural net?"
19:36:17 Josef: "If you call 20 CL2Ks and 30 full armor a "neural net", then yes"
19:36:27 [Admin]Tael: "ok quick question, Kluth Def Bases, are the high level bases firing at ships in orbit?"
19:36:32 Josef: "Oh wait, thats just my AI"
19:36:35 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "that can be the next gaifen"
19:36:37 [CEC]Lonectzn: "yes"
19:36:44 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yes"
19:36:50 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they dont hurt too bad though "
19:36:52 [CEC]Lonectzn: "And last i checked. torps"
19:37:07 [Admin]Tael: "Are UTGO bases firing on ships at all?"
19:37:15 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "of course the only ship Ive used on those planets is a CD and a Bomber cruiser"
19:37:19 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "dunno?"
19:37:22 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "Im always UGTO"
19:37:28 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so I hope they dont fire at me"
19:37:51 [Admin]Tael: "one sec, checking the resourcer on the Kluth base"
19:37:52 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Yes, last i checked ugto fired on me"
19:38:06 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah Ive seen em fire missles"
19:38:19 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "Ive never seen anyone get close enough for them to fire anything else..."
* [=CSA=]The Lacrosseian has entered the room...
19:38:39 [CEC]Lonectzn: "You tend to run from high def planetrs"
19:38:43 [CEC]Lonectzn: "*planets"
* [-GTN-]Fleet Admiral Enterprise has left the building...
19:39:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "well when I generally see the defense bases reacting to an enemy I tend to be there too..."
19:39:09 [Admin]Tael: "none of the timers have been officially set yet, F put a static value in, but I havent run any spread sheets yet to find decent times."
19:39:24 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Will there be a drop timer"
19:39:25 [Admin]Tael: "are the UTGO firing beams at you?"
19:39:38 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah I think they do"
19:39:52 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Do the Luth really need a timer for weapons? Timer for inf drops seems enough"
19:39:56 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Haven't tried bombing a ugto planet recently"
19:40:01 [Admin]Tael: "ok good, thats what they are suppose to do."
19:40:04 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Indeed"
19:40:05 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "No use being blasted to bits before you're fully decloaked, really..."
19:40:19 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "lol the only planets we have with defense bases on them are the home planets..."
19:40:28 [Admin]Tael: "@bob, its currently one for all now... but it will be a short timer..."
19:40:44 [SYN]Antdizzle: "It takes forever to get damage now, so it doesn't matter."
19:40:51 [SYN]Antdizzle: "So complaining about stupid stuff. "
19:40:56 [SYN]Antdizzle: "Stop*"
19:40:56 [Admin]Tael: "hmm, Kluth defbase has a lvl 10 am torp, thats not doing anything?"
19:41:15 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Tael it doesn't track and fires one at a time"
19:41:28 [CEC]Lonectzn: "So, really not that scary "
19:41:53 [Admin]Tael: "it only has 1, and 4 missiles and 5 beams"
19:42:13 [Admin]Tael: "the am torp is ment for when the target gets real close..."
19:42:25 [Admin]Tael: "it might be running out of power, might need to boost its reactor"
19:42:29 [CEC]Lonectzn: "But there's not enough to really bother"
19:42:38 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah but it doesnt do much not even to a bomber cruiser..."
19:43:11 [Admin]Tael: "raised it to a level 15..."
19:43:19 [Admin]Tael: "hmm on sec let me check something"
19:43:22 [CEC]Lonectzn: "I made a planet with 10 luth def bases, the am stacked up a little, but not great"
* Josef takes this opportunity to point, and laugh, at Griff...
19:45:29 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the guy in the orange armor griff? or the guy at the bottom of the room members griff?"
19:46:04 [Admin]Tael: "ok going to leave them at level 15 for now, raising to level 20 would be to strong. nearly kill a scout in 1 or 2 hits"
* Griff slaps Josef in the head...
19:46:20 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "theres a lvl 20?"
19:46:23 [MoD]Yitram: "its like a mod party in here now XD"
19:46:34 [CEC]Lonectzn: "They'd never hit a scout, unless it was in orbit"
19:46:46 [Admin]Tael: "there is a level anything i want"
19:46:57 [-GTN-]$wiss: "lol"
19:47:04 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "be funny to see a legion cruiser with lvl 20s"
19:47:07 [Admin]Tael: "but we put soft limites at lvl 10, and special limits at 15"
19:47:16 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Level omgwtfpwn?"
19:47:44 [Admin]Tael: "this way special and rare devices can be found or given out for awards in events."
19:48:10 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Yay!"
19:48:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "hmm lvl 15 would be nice wonder how powerful they are..."
19:48:24 [Admin]Tael: "bigger isnt always better, some devices get more HP for higher level, some loose HP as their level goes up because its more complicated."
* [-GTN-]Bobamelius still wants an uber jump drive that can bypass dictors as a special item...
19:48:46 [-GTN-]$wiss: "Hey teal, what missles are on a luth D base? psi, shredder...?"
19:48:50 [Admin]Tael: "so your level 14 device might deal a lot of damage, but just a little hull breach and its off line."
* [-GTN-]Starfist laughs at [-GTN-]Bobamelius...
19:49:05 [Admin]Tael: "psi"
19:50:16 [CEC]Lonectzn: "So what is happening with beams? Like I said earlier, ruptor or cl, there's no good reason to use them except for pd or chasing scouts"
19:50:55 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "pd's a pretty good reason"
19:50:56 [-GTN-]$wiss: "they seem to do more damage that ship based psi missles, are they a higher level?"
19:51:03 [Admin]Tael: "Those alone are good reasons"
19:51:13 [Admin]Tael: "even a destroyer can dodge most projectile weapons"
19:51:16 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "...Not really"
19:51:23 [CEC]Lonectzn: "No within beam range"
19:51:35 [Admin]Tael: "I gave all planet weapons higher starting values"
19:52:03 [CEC]Lonectzn: "And are all stock ships going to just become pd boats, need to put cannons to fight? Beams even have reflective armour to deal with"
19:52:04 [Admin]Tael: "Projectiles also run out of ammo"
19:52:17 [CEC]Lonectzn: "psi/particle don't"
19:52:45 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "ICC will have a huge advantage vs the Mir... "
19:52:51 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "with those missle dreads"
19:53:07 [Admin]Tael: "been lots of long battles specially because of new armor values, long battles risk running out of ammo"
19:53:29 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I had a 20 min battle vs a mir dread"
19:53:35 [CEC]Lonectzn: "But, psi/particle, which are the primary cannons, don't run out of ammo"
19:53:35 [Admin]Tael: "Supply will be a dangerous job on the front line, the enemy will want to take you out so your team cant rearm"
19:53:38 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "that was a fun battle"
19:53:53 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah your right that is a pain..."
19:54:05 [-GTN-]$wiss: "pres for supply should be increased then"
19:54:12 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "as a supp mandis will appear out of no where, ignore the dread your next to and kill you..."
19:54:33 [CEC]Lonectzn: "And even then, beams are limited by range, by energy use, by reflective armour, and by damage"
19:54:55 [Admin]Tael: "beams cant be dodged."
19:55:07 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Neither can cannons within 150gu"
19:55:12 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Unless you're in a scout or frig"
19:55:13 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "unless your a fighter..."
19:55:18 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "They're close range... and projectiles can't be dodged well at close range either"
19:55:31 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "especially lvl 0 cannons..."
19:56:06 [Admin]Tael: "beams again have the added factor they can be used for PD and shooting beacons..."
19:56:17 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and take more energy then cannons"
19:56:35 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "why cant we use lvl 0 cannons as pd?"
19:56:38 [Admin]Tael: "both have their rolls, and the mod system lets you make your ship the way you like."
19:56:49 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "just really innacurate pd..."
19:56:57 [Admin]Tael: "cause they miss missiles"
19:56:59 [Admin]Tael: "lol"
19:57:08 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so anti fighter"
19:57:14 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "why would you want in accurate pd?"
19:57:18 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "fighters are a bigger pain then missles..."
19:57:28 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "because you have a chance of hitting them..."
19:57:35 [Admin]Tael: "Its up to you to find the right balance for your play style."
19:57:51 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "why would you make a battle ship and cover it with 50 cal machine guns..."
19:58:01 [Admin]Tael: "Missions are tabled to be brought back in the next patch after this so there are ways to make money again... "
19:58:07 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "People are going to vastly favor cannons over beams, since beams do next to nothing damage wise and are just a support device"
19:58:11 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Tael, cannons can't be shot down by pd"
19:58:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they had 50 cal machine guns on battle ships in ww2 for anti fighter duty"
19:58:43 [CEC]Lonectzn: "So beams are a useless defence against what most people will be using"
19:59:04 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "I wouldn't be surprised to see beam usage disappear altogether, except on dedicated PD boats"
19:59:29 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Light beams I can see being weak, but heavy ones should have some hitting power, shouldn't they?"
19:59:36 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "in massive fleet actions youll probably have ppl in defense dessies and then the big ships with nothing but lvl 10 cannons..."
19:59:42 [CEC]Lonectzn: "A psi scale is about the strongest ship in the game, while a ruptor scale has the most energy problems, weak damage and low range."
19:59:53 [Admin]Tael: "Thats perfect, then you have teamwork"
19:59:59 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "lvl 8 CLs seem to only have an increased range and do a little more damage"
20:00:19 [CEC]Lonectzn: "But tael, where are the players in the def boats getting pres?"
20:00:19 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah thats what Im saying tael it works out... but not everyone wants to be team players"
20:00:27 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Stock ships are even worse than current stock ships, hehe..."
20:00:29 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "as I got as a comment a while back as a GA mobile SYs"
20:00:53 [MoD]Fornax: "group bring back 'grouping'"
20:01:00 [MoD]Fornax: "could bring back grouping I mean"
20:01:00 [Admin]Tael: "level 8 cls do 3.5 times more damage than level 0"
20:01:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the GAs said why would we bother, basically saying why would I want to support the team when I can just fight and try to kill someone in an engi with a reload and sabots"
20:01:31 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "hey tael can you bring back groups and give us a teamspeak like thing?"
20:01:55 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "You can just use teamspeak yourself... but groupon, yes. We need grouping."
20:02:00 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "grouping*"
20:02:03 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "we already have a teamspeak like thing. its called teamspeak"
20:02:06 [Admin]Tael: "Anyways, this was the system that was developed and balanced out... So this is the system we have..."
20:02:20 [CEC]Lonectzn: "I don't see new players geting combat pres"
20:02:35 [Admin]Tael: "there are lots of people that prefer beams and those that dont..."
20:02:41 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "because bob be more like most modern games like Battle Field 2..."
20:02:47 [CEC]Lonectzn: "In release yes"
20:02:52 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they have squad only voice chat in battle field 2..."
20:03:03 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "that would be nice here..."
20:03:03 [Raven]Kitsune {Kamikaze!}: "50 cal machine guns are better than beams "
20:03:28 [Admin]Tael: "anyways moving on..."
20:03:49 [CEC]Lonectzn: "That's also anotherthing.. new players get nothing but scout, can't build, can't sup."
20:04:21 [Admin]Tael: "There was a modification to the ship reqs done already, but i havent put it in yet"
20:04:25 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "be cool if we had a dedicated PD system that shot down cannons, torps, missles but has ammo and a 25% chance of shooting it down..."
20:04:29 [Admin]Tael: "I made the same comment..."
20:04:31 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Ok"
20:04:53 [Admin]Tael: "ok anything new?"
20:05:01 [Admin]Tael: "I've covered what I can or will..."
20:05:08 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Bombing?"
20:05:10 [CEC]Lonectzn: ":)"
20:05:32 [Admin]Tael: "I am going to increase the timers on the bombers sometimes this week... I just havent had time"
20:05:33 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I was told the ICC bomber dread only had 4 bombs for some reason"
20:05:56 [-GTN-]Starfist: "i have one question,, is there anything going to be done to the shipyards concerning ppl orbiting sy planet and going in sy to avoid death and spawning new ships"
20:06:02 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Will you still be able to use other faction builds?"
20:06:17 [Admin]Tael: "@Starfist, thats been addressed with the Blockade code"
20:06:21 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "already been done starfist..."
20:06:24 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "03:04:21 [Admin]Tael: "There was a modification to the ship reqs done already, but i havent put it in yet" -- What is it?"
20:06:31 [Admin]Tael: "go into a shipyard and try to respawn with an enemy nearby"
20:06:32 [-GTN-]Starfist: "ok thx"
20:06:50 [Admin]Tael: "@bomb havent finished reviewing it yet..."
20:07:02 [Admin]Tael: "No, Builds are now faction specific"
20:07:11 [CEC]Lonectzn: "That makes a problem"
20:07:13 [Admin]Tael: "you want their factory? you need to capture it"
20:07:13 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Excellent"
20:07:22 [CEC]Lonectzn: "With shields."
20:07:28 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "how about scouts blockading SY's at range?"
20:07:30 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "or get them to cap it and give it back.."
20:07:42 [Admin]Tael: "@no Lonec, it adds another tactic besides genocide to get a planet"
20:07:49 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "So even if you have another faction's Build component you will NOT be able to mount it on your ship?"
20:07:50 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Who will ugto bomb? ICC with shields, or luth without?"
20:08:02 [Admin]Tael: "@Trek when i see that i wipe the plaent"
20:08:06 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the mir"
20:08:17 [Raven]Kitsune {Kamikaze!}: "Maybe it should be blockade only if the ship is a destroyer, cruiser, station, or dread.."
20:08:25 [MoD]Fornax: "hehe - that covers that one"
20:08:33 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "not exactly fair then with the homesystems.."
20:08:43 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "especially considering how most fights are in the MV..."
20:08:43 [Admin]Tael: "@Lone, we look at the over all big picture. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses..."
20:08:46 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Plus luth now get any planet cleanly, while UGTO/ICC are guaranteed a wasted planet"
20:08:55 [Admin]Tael: "So its how it is"
20:08:57 [MoD]Fornax: "Was there any talk of establishing a single SAFE planet for each faction?"
20:09:01 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the only way you could get another factions factory would be take the planets on the outer parts of their territories..."
20:09:13 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "be cool if we could move buildings off planets to another planet"
20:09:27 [Admin]Tael: "lol Galactic movies..."
20:09:32 [Admin]Tael: "er, Movers"
20:09:48 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "pull it off and move put it on a tranny takes up 5 spaces"
20:09:52 [CEC]Lonectzn: "I know, it's just the way it looks, luth have been strengthened in bombing, while ugto/icc been really nerfed with removal of bio"
20:09:52 [Admin]Tael: "Galactic Express, we'll move your factory over night anywhere..."
20:09:59 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and be a big target for the enemy to take out be a prefab building"
20:09:59 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "DarkSpaces Uhaul"
20:10:05 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: "just worm hole the whole planet"
20:10:16 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: ":)"
20:10:17 [Admin]Tael: "Lone, you are not testing all the devices..."
20:10:26 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Lonec isn't there a huamn bomb that only affects troops?"
20:10:32 Griff: "3 men and a space truck movers"
20:10:33 [Admin]Tael: "ICC are actually the strongest bombers, and humans have Neutron bombs..."
20:10:39 [CEC]Lonectzn: "It only affects pop"
20:10:49 [CEC]Lonectzn: "And poorly"
20:10:53 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and kluth have tele kin bombs"
20:11:02 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "lone it doesnt effect just pop"
20:11:07 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "you wipe out inf badly..."
20:11:13 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and kill the workers of def bases"
20:11:22 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "allowing you to drop in without a problem"
20:11:29 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Really? Last I used it did almost nothing to pop and none to inf."
20:11:41 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "they fixed it last week"
20:11:45 [Admin]Tael: "when was the last, I fixed their code last week."
20:11:51 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I took a mir planet last night using it"
20:11:54 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Ok. I've gotta re-test then"
20:12:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "it was funny I killed their shield gen and most of their inf..."
20:12:27 [Admin]Tael: "ok anyways... anyother items? i want to get back in to the resourcer to work on the new ships."
20:12:28 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and got the planet fully built free of charge"
20:12:49 Josef: "No date with twins tonight?"
20:12:59 Griff: "lol"
20:13:18 [Admin]Tael: "thats this weekend when i go to so cal"
20:13:30 [Admin]Tael: "ok anything going once..."
20:13:47 [Admin]Tael: "ok anything going twice..."
20:13:49 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "when you get close to a planet when bombing lag kills you"
20:13:52 [Raven]Kitsune {Kamikaze!}: "nite"
20:13:53 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: "we getting update tonight ?"
20:13:54 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "before the bombs hit the planet"
20:14:13 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "big problem in dreads because you cant turn away fast enough"
20:14:14 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "I'm sure I'll think of something in a few minutes after you're gone "
20:14:17 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Dang I got nothing. "
20:14:35 [Admin]Tael: "@Trek I'll see if i can recreate that later...post it in the forums "
20:14:50 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "ok Ill see what I can do"
20:14:54 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Oh, zilch chance of taking some weapons off command dreads, and putting back reload?"
20:14:57 [Admin]Tael: "lol Dont escort till the last moment in a dread... lol"
20:15:20 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "laziness taking over..."
20:15:21 [Admin]Tael: "Command dreads are getting another device in 1 to 2 updates, so for now, no..."
20:15:30 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Okie"
20:15:36 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yay auto repairs"
20:15:36 [Admin]Tael: "dreads are suppose to be slow."
20:15:55 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "oh btw what about an item like an auto repair for weapons but you mine like asteroids for the ammo"
20:16:04 [CEC]Lonectzn: "And is auto repair for armour coming along soon?"
20:16:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "or mine from planets for it"
20:16:15 [CEC]Lonectzn: "That's it though, no more questions from me "
20:16:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "or keep resources in the cargo for it"
20:16:39 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "nah too powerful..."
20:16:53 [Admin]Tael: "No, F and I went round on that, and he won, Auto "HULL" repair only does systems, not armor."
20:17:18 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah but kluth atm are underpowered..."
20:17:18 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Dang. Luth could really use it."
20:17:32 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "the mir dont need it but the kluth sure do"
20:17:40 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "I think the mir and kluth auto repairs should be 2 different things"
20:17:49 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "seeing that the kluth are organic and the mir are robots..."
20:18:10 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "kluth auto repair can fix organic armor and the mir can only fix hull"
20:18:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "something like that"
20:18:18 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Mir autorepair wouldn't fix their armour anyway, it's reflective"
20:18:27 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so say its different"
20:18:32 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so its not confusing"
20:18:50 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "give the mir something like Nano repair"
20:18:59 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "and the kluth organic healing"
20:19:04 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "something like that..."
20:19:04 [Admin]Tael: "Organic has a faster repair rate as it is, so in effect, they can retreat and return to battle faster"
20:19:15 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Heh.. Stop spamming "
20:19:34 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Tael, does organic actually repair faster in points/second?"
20:19:35 [Admin]Tael: "@the Mir are getting a different set of devices, like i said above, they are using other factions tech, except for the drives"
20:19:36 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah but it cant take anything like the hit the standard armor can..."
20:19:42 [Admin]Tael: "yes"
20:19:50 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Ok"
20:19:52 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "not much faster"
20:20:12 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "not fast enough to count in most situations but yeah, the kluth could be too powerful if you did..."
20:20:18 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "curse the balancing act..."
20:20:48 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "lol... you're not supposed to repair so fast as to be unbeatable in battle, but be able to retrun to the fight quicker after cloaking/running"
20:20:56 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "retrun = return*"
20:21:01 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "well you wouldnt be able to repair super fast..."
20:21:03 [Admin]Tael: "lol, the organic armor repairs in about 70% of the time Standard does."
* [=Wolf=]ragAnok waves to [Admin]Faustus...
20:21:20 [-GTN-]Bobamelius: "Faustus, you're late "
20:21:26 [Admin]Tael: "and actually i have lengthed all repair times because before all armors were repairing to quickly."
20:21:34 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "we could try 65% for a week and see what happens tael..."
20:21:35 [Admin]Faustus: "LOL"
20:21:41 [Admin]Tael: "you'd hit someone and he'd go back to 100 armor before your weapons finished charging"
20:21:43 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "that he is..."
20:21:44 [CEC]Lonectzn: "It's not the repair time that matters, it's the points per second"
20:21:47 Josef: "His rolex must be broken"
20:21:50 [Admin]Faustus: "@tael... just grabbed latest ports, and updating beta right now.."
20:21:53 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah I noticed that with reflective armor"
20:21:59 Griff: "hello F"
20:22:01 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "thats why it took me and a longhead 20 mins for me to win..."
20:22:06 [Admin]Tael: "@F roger.."
20:22:24 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "F whats up with the new server?"
20:22:31 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "to answer someones question earlier in this"
20:22:40 [Admin]Faustus: "@tael... additionally, I've finished up the NounSpawn class, which you can attach to ships, to spawn off damage effects into the world... (so particle systems won't be attached to the ship like glue)..."
20:22:44 [Admin]Tael: "@lonec, the points/sec are determined by the Hulls max/repair to full time."
20:22:47 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: ":)"
20:23:22 [Admin]Tael: "so say the max was 300 and repair time was 10, then 300/10 means 30 points a sec"
20:23:57 [Admin]Faustus: "BUT... I've gotta write the port for the new node, might have that done tomorrow or later tonight.."
20:23:58 [Admin]Tael: "cool, i can use that for an effect on the new ship, i saved the modules as stand alone models too."
20:24:16 [Admin]Tael: "lol dont worry, not planning to work on changing that tonight..."
20:24:20 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Ok, so you've worked it out based on changing repair time. I was just saying that in terms of comparison to standard, it's the points per second that matters"
20:24:31 [Admin]Tael: "Or, i updated mantis, we still have the >64k script bug..."
* Alpha Server is updating in 5 minute(s)...
* Alpha Server is updating in 4 minute(s)...
20:25:50 [Admin]Faustus: "I gave that bug back to you... please upload the script file into mantis.. so I can test"
20:25:53 [CEC]Lonectzn: "I promised no more questions and I'll have to stick by it :/"
20:25:54 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "so what about that new server hows that coming along?"
20:26:23 [Admin]Tael: "Its in the Priv Dev forum already, Chromix posted it there."
* Alpha Server is updating in 3 minute(s)...
20:26:41 [Admin]Faustus: "@trekkie... the GNU port is coming along fine... haven't got any work done on it the last couple of days though, been busy clearing the bugs out of mantis.."
20:27:14 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yeah bugs in the software is a big concer"
20:27:16 [Admin]Faustus: "another change.... BTW which is really cool..."
20:27:17 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "concern*"
20:27:23 [Admin]Tael: "Its 3 sepperate files, but of course the DOFILE() doesnt work when they are on my system and not on the remote server. so remove the DOFILE lines and past the text from the other two files into the master"
20:27:33 [Admin]Tael: "then its all one file..."
* Alpha Server is updating in 2 minute(s)...
* [=Wolf=]ragAnok hands Faustus a can of mortien
20:27:56 [Admin]Faustus: "the servers can now self-update without rebooting now 99% of the time... the only EXE they can't update now is Service.exe... which is the gamecq service exe"
20:28:07 [Admin]Faustus: "and that never gets recompiled.."
20:28:12 [Admin]Faustus: "almost "
20:28:20 [*MYTH*]FireMoth: "is that what this alpha server message is?"
20:28:16 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Nifty"
20:28:20 [Admin]Faustus: "another thing, you guys may have noticed.."
20:28:37 [Admin]Faustus: "the servers now automatically self-update without me having to go restart them.."
* Alpha Server is updating in 60 second(s)...
* Alpha Server is updating in 50 second(s)...
20:28:49 [Admin]Faustus: "they check the mirrorserver every 5 minutes for an update..."
20:28:52 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "noticed that"
* Alpha Server is updating in 40 second(s)...
20:29:05 [CEC]Lonectzn: "So it's an _actual_ self-update"
20:29:08 [Admin]Faustus: "speaking of which.... "
* Alpha Server is updating in 30 second(s)...
20:29:16 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "might explain the lag spike some ppl feel every once in a while"
20:29:16 [Admin]Faustus: "beta will be restarting any min.."
* Alpha Server is updating in 20 second(s)...
20:29:21 [Admin]Tael: "be glad they dont check when I am updating things. lol"
* Alpha Server is updating in 10 second(s)...
* Josef is going to get Oreos in 10 second(s)...
20:29:32 [Admin]Tael: "they'd be restarting every 10 minutes"
20:29:41 [Admin]Faustus: "hehe... "
20:30:17 [Admin]Tael: "so parinoid of another crash and loosing my work, i am constantly clicking Save and check in..."
20:30:32 [Admin]Faustus: "good ideal... "
20:31:23 [-GTN-]$wiss: "night guys"
* Beta server is updating in 5 minute(s)...
20:31:46 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "lightning has struck my house twice"
20:32:16 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Remember back Win 3.1? Torn between clicking save in case of crash, and knowing that clicking save could in fact make it crash.."
20:32:18 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "both times nothing too bad happened"
20:32:29 [MoD]Fornax: "mmmm, Oreo's"
* Beta server is updating in 4 minute(s)...
20:32:58 [Admin]Tael: "Ok F, AIC2.LUA has been attached to the Mantis report"
* Beta server is updating in 3 minute(s)...
20:33:39 [Admin]Tael: "@F oh, so anyway we can set the Join Fleet list to check and not show a fleet thats is disabled unless the user has the Admin or Dev flag?"
20:34:07 [Admin]Faustus: "@tael... the No join checkbox does that.."
20:34:22 [Admin]Tael: "getting a few questions now that disable works, lol would like to hide disable fleets to make special events more unpredicable."
20:34:25 [Admin]Faustus: "@nitron... fleets are going to become the groups... "
20:34:31 [Admin]Tael: "hmm, someone today was saying they could see it."
* Beta server is updating in 2 minute(s)...
20:34:43 [Admin]Tael: "ok, logging in a test user after the udpate"
20:35:04 [Admin]Faustus: "@tael... try a test account, if you do, put a bug report in mantis ofcourse "
20:35:08 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "yay I can bug tael there then"
20:35:14 [Admin]Faustus: "going to go debug the script bug... nite guys"
20:35:18 [=Wolf=]ragAnok: "will mir be able to attack planets ??"
20:35:19 [-GTN-]Demorian: "Dare I ask what's in the update?"
20:35:22 [-GTN-]Demorian: ":-P"
* Griff waves to [-GTN-]Demorian...
* Beta server is updating in 60 second(s)...
* [-GTN-]Demorian smiles warmly at Griff.
* Beta server is updating in 50 second(s)...
* Beta server is updating in 40 second(s)...
* Beta server is updating in 30 second(s)...
20:36:17 [Admin]Faustus: "@demo.... wob updates, some optimziations mostly... "
* Beta server is updating in 20 second(s)...
* Beta server is updating in 10 second(s)...
20:36:29 [Admin]Faustus: "a new spawn node, but not setup in the data yet.."
20:36:34 [-GTN-]Demorian: "Roger that, Faustito. "
20:36:40 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Oh... Damn. Got a question "
20:37:00 [CEC]Lonectzn: "Mineral costs for ships... Particularly heavy metal."
20:39:49 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "hmm I had an intersting idea right before I got discoed and now I cant remember it..."
20:40:41 [Admin]Tael: "mirror server still down..."
20:40:45 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "oh well the admins world is probably a better place without my idea..."
20:40:57 Griff: "lol"
20:41:19 [Admin]Tael: "no, we just get free tea and crumpets in our lounge."
20:41:37 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "or caring"
20:41:48 [MoD]Fornax: "I'll bet they listen to more than you think"
20:42:03 [CEC]Lonectzn: "To be realistic... 3% is pretty high for an online game"
20:42:07 [MoD]Fornax: "it's just an information overload situation"
20:42:09 [~Z~]Trekkie_zero {Recruitment is fun}: "theres probably an admin watching us right now"
20:42:17 [MoD]Fornax: "yeup - Tael "
20:42:18 [Admin]Tael: "ok well going to get to work on the testing so this meeting is closed, thanks for coming."

  ICQ status
Galactic Navy

Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11180
From: Bristol, England
Posted: 2005-05-11 12:16   
Sorry I could be there, looks like a lot of topics where covered.

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