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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » Worm Hole Device...
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 Author Worm Hole Device...
Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron

Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
Posted: 2004-02-22 14:08   
Quote:

On 2004-02-22 13:40, Faustus wrote:
So basically, a weapon you can fire into a worm hole, it comes out on the other side and launches missiles on any available targets?




why not just into a wormhole.
Yes you can fire it into the wormhole but would love to see somesort of Heavy Missile that goes 500gu ahead and then launches AR/Sabots.
sounds like fun and a good suppression weapon.
_________________

- Axi

Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron

Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
Posted: 2004-02-22 15:40   
one more thing.
I noticed an ICC JC fly up to 200 Gu to a station and then created a WH INTO the sun.

this makes it an unballanced item...
i propose the following.

1. WH generating ships need to be at a COMPLETE stop to use it.
2. the WH generator need about 5-10 secs to charge.. this should be made visual so the ships flying around see its preparing to generate a hole.

These things should make the WH not turn into the next trend after mines being gone.
_________________

- Axi

Sopwith Camel
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 651
From: Toronto
Posted: 2004-02-22 15:44   
I think that this is a very good tactic for the ICC... i was in beta and a JC did the same thing to me... out of nowhere i saw a worm hole and then i was inside of Sol, being subjected to the pain of nuclear fusion
_________________

Fleet Commander, Galactic Navy

Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents

Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
Posted: 2004-02-22 16:00   
Yeah, but it's a little unfair to UGTO and K'luth Station pilots.

I agree with Axianda on that WH generating ships should need to be completely stationary as well as having a chargeup time.

*EDIT*

Oh yeah, I loved those little pods. SBMHAWKs or something like that.

Great idea.

_________________


[ This Message was edited by: Sandalpocalypse on 2004-02-22 16:01 ]
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  ICQ status
Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron

Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
Posted: 2004-02-24 10:38   
I've been fooling around whit this wormhole thing and my first impression is WEEE this is fun..

but after a while i began to miss the normal Jumpdrive.
It is EXTREMELY hard to get a station into position for defending a planet.

is there someway that you can have stations keep theyr normal JD's to?
_________________

- Axi

Tbone
Grand Admiral

Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
Posted: 2004-02-24 12:38   
Personally, I can't understand why the ICC get a worm hole on a cruiser (well, actually I can, but I won't say my opinion here as it would be vigirously denied).

Maybe there needs to be a randomized place where the worm hole is created as well? Maybe in a 60 degree angle in front of the creating ship, with a random range of 150gu or so and yes, the ship must be at a full stop. Also possibly a slightly longer lifespan then if they would be random in the entrance points.
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  Email Tbone
Therax Anrak
1st Rear Admiral

Joined: February 07, 2004
Posts: 11
Posted: 2004-02-24 13:19   
I'm going to break with the pack and state that I'm against requiring the ship to be at a full stop to create a wormhole. Don't forget that these generators replace the Tachyon Drive. WHG equipped ships have no emergency warp capability, and forcing them to be at a complete stop would be quite a blow to stations, given their total lack of acceleration to begin with.

However, I definitely think a random factor or two should be introduced into where the WH entrance spawns. This would make precision targetting (to warp someone into a planet or star) much more difficult, while still allowing it to be used for escapes.
_________________


Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents

Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
Posted: 2004-02-24 16:58   
I'm still super worried about Wormhole devices trumping stations in a single shot.

*EDIT*
Suggestion on how the Wormhole-missile pod device might work.

It would be something you either put in a Heavy, or, in another method, a Fighter slot.

Once the pod has traveled 230 gu from its launch point, it will target and fire missiles on the nearest targets, with a wide spread. ( ~4-5 AR-equiv missiles?)

The pod would be heavily resistant to laser fire, but killable with heavy fire.

You CAN use the pod in normal combat, but it has an EXTREMELY long recharge (2 minutes?) and MUST travel 230 gu before detonating.

Alternatively, the Pods are carried in cargo and are fired by launching them. I'm not a huge fan of that method.. it has its pluses, but could result in endless pod-spam.

The 230 GU figure is based off of wormholes forming 200 GU from wormhole ships, I'm not sure if that's right.

*shrug*
_________________




[ This Message was edited by: Sandalpocalypse on 2004-02-24 17:20 ]
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  ICQ status
Roger
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: November 07, 2001
Posts: 105
Posted: 2004-02-24 19:06   
I disagree.

People wanted big guns in game, this can be the first one. It's just the question of balancing out. WH as a weapon is a great idea. I always liked devices with "unintended" applications. It adds variety, I belive it's good.

WH applications:
1) Remote entry point:
Great for breaking luth ecm forted camps. Also one of those weapons that defy principle "you can't kill what you can't see" by locking on everything. If you fire wormholes in a certain area long enough, it will hit something, and when ships start blowing up people start moving. Obviously with such weapon bigger fleet will take bigger losses which turns WH gen into a balancing weapon of a sort.

At this point I don't see why such application of WH is a bad idea. I mean... don't wana be lamed? Stop camping. Besides it works both ways.

2) local entry point: This is the "lame" end of the wormhole that probably is pissing off a lot of people. I must agree here, it is pretty lame. BUT. It is NO reason to scrap this concept completely. This is a great unexpected result of WH operation.

WHs needs to be balanced as a weapon, not removed completely as one. Concept is too good and creative (if intended) to be removed.

Some of these conditions I listed either already create difficulty for potential WH users or can create additional ones without making WH impossible to use as a weapon:

1) WH gen preheating time ~10s should be enough to make everyone wet their pants in the vicinity.

2) Adding a warning message like "WH generator power up detected" will pretty much put any ship capable of carrying WH gen on top of everyones targeting queue. It's also a good idea to make it visual observable or simply include name of ship in the warning string.

3) any ship that uses WH as a weapon has no way of escaping. This will definitely make players think before using it in conjunction with stars or other large objects. Of course all they have to do is open WH to PSI base filled planetary cluster instead. That does give the ship that enters WH chance to escape though (unlike stars).

4) and IF WH gen will be too lame still, direction where WH appears could be set to the direction of the target. So if the targeted star is at 6, WH will appear 100gu at 6. This will require ship to be at the specific point, at a specific time moving however at variable vector. If position where WH appears is fixed, ship always has a predictable vector (towards the ship). And we all know what happens to ships that are moving for 10s in mostly straight line towards large vessels (Especially if they have a heating up WH gen). So it's not clear what's better, making it difficult or more dangerous. After ship wastes WH charge, it will most likely be destroyed due to the extensive damage done to it by the ship that was "helped" to jump away.

5) Difficulty of hitting the ship is pretty much inversely proportional to it's size. Adding heating up time will make it hard to hit most ships of cruser size and less.

6) Remember! Ship is geting absolutly NO prestige for doing it! That's why it will always remain an exotic threat (As it should), much like a dictor. 1-2 per every 20 ships probably.

7) WH ships can not only warp ships into stars, but also save them.

8) And last, but not the least. Dictor could prevent WH from working at all. WH does appears, but just doesn't work. You can jump into dictor field but can't jump out of it. So if a ship places a WH on top of station, station will not hit the star while dictor hiding under it is operational.

Say yes to WH generators as a weapon!

[ This Message was edited by: Roger on 2004-02-24 20:28 ]
_________________


Malduc{-GTN-}
Cadet

Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 544
From: New Jersey
Posted: 2004-02-24 19:06   
I think wormhole devices should only be able to be place a certain distance from a planet, say 500 gu from it. The gravity well alone of the wormhole and planet wouldn't permit it I'd think. This would give a planet a small chance of fighting off the enemy before they reached drop distance.

Malduc
_________________
The Bond of Brotherhood Shall Never Be Undone.....Nor Shall The Legacy of the Fleet Once Known as GTN
One Creed, One Bond, One FLEET.


Honor Is All

Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents

Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
Posted: 2004-02-24 20:54   
nah

recall you can shoot down infantry

and the wormhole has a randomization factor built in on the destination.

Stations are just too big and too valuable for such a crappy instant kill by a moving cruiser, and Stations would be the main victims. Requiring the wormhole cruiser to be stationary and/or randomization the place the WH is created and/or chargeup timer should be enough.
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  ICQ status
Roger
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: November 07, 2001
Posts: 105
Posted: 2004-02-24 21:09   
Quote:

Stations are just too big and too valuable for such a crappy instant kill by a moving cruiser, and Stations would be the main victims. Requiring the wormhole cruiser to be stationary and/or randomization the place the WH is created and/or chargeup timer should be enough.




station is a fleet ship.
I sugested a good way to defend against wormholes using dictors. Quiet intuitive too.

[ This Message was edited by: Roger on 2004-02-24 21:10 ]
_________________


Sandals
Fleet Admiral
Agents

Joined: January 21, 2002
Posts: 2001
From: Redmond,WA,USA
Posted: 2004-02-24 22:14   
Part of the point of wormholes is immunity to dictors.
_________________


  ICQ status
dit0
Cadet

Joined: September 11, 2003
Posts: 9
Posted: 2004-02-24 23:29   
i havent played the beta yet, so if i'm way off with this plz ignore.
The problem of forming a wormhole on top of a station could be fixed by making it more 'realistic' for want of a better word. wormholes are gravitional beasties that would be tricky to form inside of a large object i'd imagine.
It could be coded so neither the entry or exit holes can be formed inside the hitboxs of either ships or planets/star. The fictonional 'ingame' reason for this being the gravity of the objects disrupt the formation. This has been said before, but it can be taken further than this.

From what i can tell, the wormhole is formed just in front of the generating ship (200gu?). So, if there is something blocking the formation, like a station or planet, it should fail to form and have to charge again.

The 'randomness' of the exit hole could be made proportional to the the size of the planet or ship that the hole targeted. More gravity equals more disturbance. Making big planets harder to get close to and also making it hard to jump your entire fleet on top of a station.

In the future, this way of doing things could lead to another technology;-

New building: Graviton distortion base. Further increasing not only the randomness of the exit hole but also the exclusion radius ( ie the area around the planet that the hole cannot be formed in). Also, stations and JCs inside this area (friend or foe) could not form a wormhole, period.

New ship component:Graviton distorter. Designed to fit into the same slot as the interdictor. An effective defense against the JC, It can throw its inbould wormhole off course and stop its outbound hole forming. It shouldnt be powerful enough, imo, to stop a station from forming a wormhole tho. (this makes it considerable different to an interdictor)

It would be good if this tech was faction specific to UGTO. Uggy has the weakest planet defense of the three factions, the base might help balance that.

ps, all apologies for not being there to help test the beta, hope all turns out well
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Roger
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: November 07, 2001
Posts: 105
Posted: 2004-02-24 23:29   
Quote:

On 2004-02-24 22:14, Sandalpocalypse wrote:
Part of the point of wormholes is immunity to dictors.



By sacreficing that we gain a whole new area of WH application. Besides WH travel has no consequences as it is. It already destroys every concept of border this game has left.
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