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 Author Potential planetary interdictor changes!
-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness


Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 527
From: Red Lobster
Posted: 2014-02-22 16:02   
So I'll be able to cloak inside, AND jump in/out of an enemy dictor?
There will be no real safe place from a hunting kluth. Or anyone really.

If I can do that, then I think it should have some other serious debuffs as well, on top of this jd speed reduction.


Let's talk about the fact we all know: planets totally suck.
The only thing useful about them, are depots, dicos, and shipyards.
Planet def is a joke, and will rarely defend itself effectively. It doesn't matter if it's an efficient super def planet or a badly built barren, an attacking fleet with a bomber dread will steamroll it no problem either way.
The only planet that has ever given me real challenge to cap are the very large high allegience offense base spammed terrans. Paul comes to mind.
But even those don't really matter anymore, with all the ECM + stealth armor capable bombers we have now.
Planets suck, so people plat spam to give them any kind of real defense or effect to the battlefield. Since it's also inside a dico, this leads to people camping said plat infested planets resulting in long boring standoffs we all hate.

To me, it's the entire planet system that is the problem, not just dicos.
Which is getting a planned overhaul anyway, yes?

If dicos are changed now:
Allow enemy ships to jump out but not in, and extend dico range by, say, 500? Could even increase dj recharge time inside the dico of you want. This still gives planets a relatively safe area to fall back on, and also allows attackers to be able to assault a planet without suicide. Compromise. Win win for both problems.


Or
2 types of buildable dicos, only 1 can exist at a time on a planet
Dico 1: ships can jump in, but not out. Friendlies are effected too.
Dico 2: ships can jump out, but not in. Friendlies are also effected.
(I can see the station pilots raging now.LOL)

OR

Change the dico to a command aura type device, giving either buffs to Friendlies or debuffs to enemies, or both, but much, much more powerful, and noticeable than the ship ones we currently have, enough to deter attackers somewhat or give defenders a good advantage. Balance here would be tricky though.
Could even scale in power the better the planet is. (Higher class planets = stronger)





Just my thoughts and opinions
-x

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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3820
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2014-02-24 07:04   

There are valid concerns and some good ideas among those posted here.
Orkan's strike me as interesting.


IMO, if the function of the dico is to slow the ship down to 440gu/s, then we might as well remove the dico completely. That renders it completely useless.

I have a few ideas that takes into consideration what those who have posted before me have pointed out and/or proposed.


1. Separate Gravity Well and Dico devices

This is a good idea of Orkan's actually.

Make Interdictors prohibitively expensive to build, both resource and/or tech wise. Make them require Tech 95 or above to build.

Put these new Gravity Well devices where the Interdictors are right now, in terms of cost/tech to build. And these Grav Well devices will do exactly what Jack mentioned in the opening post. Only, the effects are more severe.

- Ships will slow down to 5% of their normal jump speed, while still using up the same amount of fuel per tic/second/whatever

- JD recharge will slow down by 25% while in the effect of a Grav Well

Bring back the Interdictor cruisers, but replace the dico with Grav well devices instead. Voila... more tactical choices once again.



2. Dico as a braking device, and still allowing jump outs.

Or we can forget the grav well and modify the dico devices.
When a ship enters the effect of an interdictor, it begins to slow down rapidly from FTL. Perhaps at a velocity loss rate of 440gu/s for every second spent flying through the dico. Once the ship's speed hits 0, the JD cuts out and the player's jump is disrupted. During this braking phase, the JD continues to burn the same amount of fuel per sec/tic as in normal FTL flight.

This would mean that the Interdictor acts as a braking device rather than an immediate JD cutoff device.

The question remains whether to allow a jump to initiate in a dico. Perhaps we should. But if a jump initiates within a dico, the player's ship will hit full speed and immediately begin slowing down again. He may find his JD cutting out or running out of fuel just a couple of thousand GUs beyond the dico field, making him a fresh target again for his pursuers.

This means that a tachyon drive will cut out within 5 seconds of entering a dico field. If he skims the edge of a dico field, he may well pass it by. But if he tries to cut through the field close to a planet, especially a large one, he may find himself falling out of FTL rapidly.

For a single planet, ships may penetrate the dico field substantially. For a cluster however, it will present a greater challenge.

After this, bring back the interdictor cruiser. And perhaps expensive to build interdictor plats, so players can use them more tactically.




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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral

Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
Posted: 2014-02-24 10:33   
Quote:
On 2014-02-24 07:04, Kenny_Naboo wrote:

There are valid concerns and some good ideas among those posted here.
Orkan's strike me as interesting.


IMO, if the function of the dico is to slow the ship down to 440gu/s, then we might as well remove the dico completely. That renders it completely useless.

I have a few ideas that takes into consideration what those who have posted before me have pointed out and/or proposed.


1. Separate Gravity Well and Dico devices

This is a good idea of Orkan's actually.

Make Interdictors prohibitively expensive to build, both resource and/or tech wise. Make them require Tech 95 or above to build.

Put these new Gravity Well devices where the Interdictors are right now, in terms of cost/tech to build. And these Grav Well devices will do exactly what Jack mentioned in the opening post. Only, the effects are more severe.

- Ships will slow down to 5% of their normal jump speed, while still using up the same amount of fuel per tic/second/whatever

- JD recharge will slow down by 25% while in the effect of a Grav Well

Bring back the Interdictor cruisers, but replace the dico with Grav well devices instead. Voila... more tactical choices once again.



2. Dico as a braking device, and still allowing jump outs.

Or we can forget the grav well and modify the dico devices.
When a ship enters the effect of an interdictor, it begins to slow down rapidly from FTL. Perhaps at a velocity loss rate of 440gu/s for every second spent flying through the dico. Once the ship's speed hits 0, the JD cuts out and the player's jump is disrupted. During this braking phase, the JD continues to burn the same amount of fuel per sec/tic as in normal FTL flight.

This would mean that the Interdictor acts as a braking device rather than an immediate JD cutoff device.

The question remains whether to allow a jump to initiate in a dico. Perhaps we should. But if a jump initiates within a dico, the player's ship will hit full speed and immediately begin slowing down again. He may find his JD cutting out or running out of fuel just a couple of thousand GUs beyond the dico field, making him a fresh target again for his pursuers.

This means that a tachyon drive will cut out within 5 seconds of entering a dico field. If he skims the edge of a dico field, he may well pass it by. But if he tries to cut through the field close to a planet, especially a large one, he may find himself falling out of FTL rapidly.

For a single planet, ships may penetrate the dico field substantially. For a cluster however, it will present a greater challenge.

After this, bring back the interdictor cruiser. And perhaps expensive to build interdictor plats, so players can use them more tactically.






Hmmmm is it possible to make jumps that enter dicos cut off immediately but jumps that exit the dico not be disrupted?

Perhaps some sort of status update on the tachyon that makes it do a special jump just like the regular one in dicos that isnt disruptable?

Also increase jd charge time for enemies affected by it....would prevent point jumping but would also allow escape? and if possible make it to where it loses the status on exiting a dico?

Oh and I totally disagree on the interdictor cruiser. Even if it followed the rules of what I just said above...theres nothing to stop it from being used by say kluth who warp faster....to follow others jump routes passing them up and potentially knocking them out of their jumps...Dx
[ This Message was edited by: Rykros1987 on 2014-02-24 10:50 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3820
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2014-02-24 14:36   
Quote:
On 2014-02-24 10:33, Rykros1987 wrote:


Oh and I totally disagree on the interdictor cruiser. Even if it followed the rules of what I just said above...theres nothing to stop it from being used by say kluth who warp faster....to follow others jump routes passing them up and potentially knocking them out of their jumps...Dx




Doing something like this would take an extraordinary amount of skill or luck. To catch up to a jumping ship on exactly the same line and knock him out of jump.... that's like Star Trek Into Darkness stuff.

If it'd happen, I say that the player should be rewarded for such precision with a kill!

Intersecting a jump line however shouldn't bother an enemy ship much. At a radius of 1000 GUs, it takes slightly under 2 secs to cross that distance on a standard tachyon drive.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2038
From: Michigan
Posted: 2014-02-24 15:00   
Quote:
On 2014-02-24 14:36, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Doing something like this would take an extraordinary amount of skill or luck. To catch up to a jumping ship on exactly the same line and knock him out of jump.... that's like Star Trek Into Darkness stuff.

If it'd happen, I say that the player should be rewarded for such precision with a kill!

Intersecting a jump line however shouldn't bother an enemy ship much. At a radius of 1000 GUs, it takes slightly under 2 secs to cross that distance on a standard tachyon drive.



Yup. And that's only if the other ship passes through the center of the field, if they just hit the edge it's even less.
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
Posted: 2014-03-17 17:22   
Quote:
On 2014-02-24 07:04, Kenny_Naboo wrote:

There are valid concerns and some good ideas among those posted here.
Orkan's strike me as interesting.


IMO, if the function of the dico is to slow the ship down to 440gu/s, then we might as well remove the dico completely. That renders it completely useless.

I have a few ideas that takes into consideration what those who have posted before me have pointed out and/or proposed.


1. Separate Gravity Well and Dico devices

This is a good idea of Orkan's actually.

Make Interdictors prohibitively expensive to build, both resource and/or tech wise. Make them require Tech 95 or above to build.

Put these new Gravity Well devices where the Interdictors are right now, in terms of cost/tech to build. And these Grav Well devices will do exactly what Jack mentioned in the opening post. Only, the effects are more severe.

- Ships will slow down to 5% of their normal jump speed, while still using up the same amount of fuel per tic/second/whatever

- JD recharge will slow down by 25% while in the effect of a Grav Well

Bring back the Interdictor cruisers, but replace the dico with Grav well devices instead. Voila... more tactical choices once again.



2. Dico as a braking device, and still allowing jump outs.

Or we can forget the grav well and modify the dico devices.
When a ship enters the effect of an interdictor, it begins to slow down rapidly from FTL. Perhaps at a velocity loss rate of 440gu/s for every second spent flying through the dico. Once the ship's speed hits 0, the JD cuts out and the player's jump is disrupted. During this braking phase, the JD continues to burn the same amount of fuel per sec/tic as in normal FTL flight.

This would mean that the Interdictor acts as a braking device rather than an immediate JD cutoff device.

The question remains whether to allow a jump to initiate in a dico. Perhaps we should. But if a jump initiates within a dico, the player's ship will hit full speed and immediately begin slowing down again. He may find his JD cutting out or running out of fuel just a couple of thousand GUs beyond the dico field, making him a fresh target again for his pursuers.

This means that a tachyon drive will cut out within 5 seconds of entering a dico field. If he skims the edge of a dico field, he may well pass it by. But if he tries to cut through the field close to a planet, especially a large one, he may find himself falling out of FTL rapidly.

For a single planet, ships may penetrate the dico field substantially. For a cluster however, it will present a greater challenge.

After this, bring back the interdictor cruiser. And perhaps expensive to build interdictor plats, so players can use them more tactically.







the more i read this the more i liked it.
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AutoTimer
Marshal

Joined: November 29, 2010
Posts: 51
Posted: 2014-04-08 03:29   
why not get rid the of the dico and increase base def damage to create a challenge for an invading fleet?
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DeafstikX
Commander

Joined: April 02, 2014
Posts: 6
Posted: 2014-04-09 15:42   
I know I am new and all here but the "interdictor" seems fine I actually think said changes would make them redundant. A ship flying at 20+ gu already reduce the accurace of railguns and other KE type weapons and most beam weapons that lower tiers use need to be in spitting range! investing in more antiship bases would be more productive then interdictors. Now I have read the comments and I know missle/carrier wars are boring to most but that is sieging at its finest it takes one party to attack the other to speed things up or else yes you will be there forever as the defenders wont really have any blockaded disadvantages (Alterative solution depletalbe depots that will ensure some one to attack the other in medium/short range combat) But if you also do this I will have to leave this game as enough people already warp out once they realise their armour and tactic is failing (How come you can't target the warp drives anyhow or engines) Maybe there could be a ship that is designed only to disable the "dico" but last I heard when some one made a ship to stop something people complained about it and you devs ever so appeasing removed it though it was logical

This game seams great but the lack of player base and the simplifcation that are being made is making it less and less team work and more Army of One And I conclude this from past post and what I have been told about the before eras

Also I don't mean to insult I really like this game I have tried to bring my little gaming crew to it and succesfully got one to stay Its a great game and if I had money I would donate stay around a year or two mroe I might have the money to throw a bone here when I can afford Just don't turn into a spreadsheet war
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2800
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2014-04-11 06:15   
planetary interdictors that do not interdict? Sounds like a typical DS workaround.

The problem is a player base. Not the mechanics. Barring that, the issue is specialized ships, because u cant have all the needed ships with only 2 or 3 people on a faction.

This is like bailing water from a ship using a collander.

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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2038
From: Michigan
Posted: 2014-04-11 10:28   
Quote:
On 2014-04-11 06:15, Azreal wrote:
The problem is a player base. Not the mechanics. Barring that, the issue is specialized ships, because u cant have all the needed ships with only 2 or 3 people on a faction.

This is like bailing water from a ship using a collander.





So tempted to put that as my new forum sig.
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DeafstikX
Commander

Joined: April 02, 2014
Posts: 6
Posted: 2014-04-15 12:51   
What speacialized ships? Its just Missle Rocket Carrier Beam Supply and Kinetict types there is no Eletronic warfare ships as far as I have seen like interdictor ships or communication hack ships or others of that nature this is a rock em sock em game its not that complex nor team based
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 277
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
Posted: 2014-04-16 00:33   
Quote:
On 2014-02-22 12:30, Troy Mars wrote:
Dictor field get stronger the closer you get to it. Almost 100% if you jump directly to the planet.




^^ this, or a version of it!
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
Posted: 2014-04-21 10:29   
Quote:
On 2014-04-11 10:28, Talien wrote:
Quote:
On 2014-04-11 06:15, Azreal wrote:
The problem is a player base. Not the mechanics. Barring that, the issue is specialized ships, because u cant have all the needed ships with only 2 or 3 people on a faction.

This is like bailing water from a ship using a collander.





So tempted to put that as my new forum sig.




Ditto... Should be DS's motto as well!
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Okkam
Marshal

Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
Posted: 2014-04-21 22:20   
I always read the forums and potential changes even though I don't have the proper time to get back into the game.

I personally think it's something other than interdictors that cause the lack of interest in attacking a planetoid. I believe the big issue is the prestige loss involved in losing a ship.

Not trying to derail this thread as it is, in my opinion, related directly to the issue proposed and reasons behind it. We have a lacking in player base and the players we do have are always concerned about losing ships (apart from the golden oldies who have more prestige than they know what to do with).

The previous reason for prestige loss was to make people be careful with what they have and to make it so that the MV wasn't always large ships as large ships cause the highest amount of loss (I assume). Considering the fact that higher leveled players are aware of the smaller vessels being superior in many situations you have no real need for the negative side effect of prestige.

By removing or dampening the negative side effect of ship loss you should find more engagements and more friendly fights between players as there is no real hard feelings behind losing a ship (other than enhancements, if they are still around). In turn you may find people using larger ships more, but then that comes down to the debate on balance for situations and loadouts between ships which is always going to be on-topic.

For example, take games like EvE Online where grief is almost encouraged and there is severe reluctance to engage in combat unless you have backup or superior numbers due to the fact that when you die you lose something important.

If you reduce the effectiveness of interdictors it shouldn't prevent the issue arising of the defend/not wanting to attack culture and in the end interdictors would be replaced by another planetary defence module that makes sieges harder. People will always succeed in finding another option.

This is making sense right? I made a point of it last time I logged on by always flying stations into silly fights and self destructing on enemies, or wormhole traveling into near impossible to win situations in order to provoke a fight for others to enjoy knowing the enemy would target me over most others as I was in a station. This eventually took a large toll on my prestige and frankly my rank is high enough that I don't care, but considering the time it took to get this high in rank it makes me reluctant to fight in a situation where I am not guaranteed success and survival. (While typing this out it also rings a bell that this could be why K'luth is always a hot subject on balancing, they used to have a very effective means of escape meaning the risk was lower and more people played or engaged in combat in luthie ships)

=Edit=

It might also help introduce players if they knew that dying wouldn't reduce their gaming abilities by reduced rank, right? Could lead to more interested parties.

[ This Message was edited by: Okkam's Razor (Silenthunter13) on 2014-04-21 22:23 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
Posted: 2014-05-06 03:28   
What about just making interdictors prohibitively expensive to maintain?
Rather than interdiction bases being basically standard issue on all built-up planets, they could be something that must be considered far more carefully.

If done correctly, the cost could prohibit strong planet defenses, and would barely fit on a shipyard planet, leaving it easy to cripple.

Players can have a safe haven that deters attack, but it should have significant downsides.

Just a thought.
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