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 Author Ship Tiers and You
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3820
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-12-27 22:09   
Quote:

On 2012-12-27 22:03, Zero28 wrote:

im havign a hard time understanding it
this just basicly sounds like you just gonna redo the current ships layout. cept your giving more options to lower rank players (wich i have no problems with)

doesn't that in the end falls back to where its at, players jsut gonna fly the biggest/highest tier ship they can get?





The motivation for any player in any game that has better equipment for higher levels is to rank/level up to get the best stuff. That's normal, isn't it?

Right now, players want to rank up to get the biggest ship. Because bigger = better and more powerful.

But with the tiered system, bigger isn't necessarily better anymore. So, a T1 dread may not be as useful or powerful as a T2 cruiser. The configuration of the ship plays a part now. A very good current exampls is an ICC CC against a UGTO Torpedo Cruiser. Or an Agincourt vs an ICC HC/AC or Kluth Scale.

It's all about the ship layout. And the Tiered system will refine this concept.



[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-12-27 22:10 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral

Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 589
Posted: 2012-12-27 23:01   
i see

yep, defenitly a good thiing XD.
thou iw ishe di coudl make my own layout, id been in a cruiser with cannosn and torps all the way xD

ima cannon kind of guy who likes to broadside XD
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-DBS
Marshal

Joined: January 04, 2011
Posts: 203
From: St. Petersburg, FL
Posted: 2012-12-28 00:50   
The pres gain should be increased to where it was 2 -3 years ago... For this new system...
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal

Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
Posted: 2012-12-28 01:05   
hey jim could we get an example of how a ship would advance through the tiers? And by that i mean similer ship (Combat dessy) for one fraction would go alogng the tiers
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights


Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'

Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: 2012-12-28 01:45   
Quote:

On 2012-12-27 23:01, Zero28 wrote:
i see

yep, defenitly a good thiing XD.
thou iw ishe di coudl make my own layout, id been in a cruiser with cannosn and torps all the way xD

ima cannon kind of guy who likes to broadside XD




That combo will probably be pretty common, especially for the human factions. Guns to hit at range, torps to hammer up close. It fits pretty closely with a number of existing ships; Combat and Gunboat destroyers, Heavy and Battle Cruisers, etc.


Quote:

On 2012-12-28 01:05, Soulless. wrote:
hey jim could we get an example of how a ship would advance through the tiers? And by that i mean similer ship (Combat dessy) for one fraction would go alogng the tiers




Ships won't exactly "advance" through the tiers. You don't start with a Tier 1 Combat Destroyer, then get a Tier 2 Combat Destroyer, and then a Tier 3 Combat destroyer. The roles that comprise the Combat Destroyer will see use at all tiers, however.

Let me explain it this way. Here's a Tier 1 ICC Destroyer with a Cannon role:


M-190L Patrol Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 5x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 1x Tri-arc Railgun

- 2x Aux Reactors


Now here's the Combat Destroyer, a Tier 2 ICC Destroyer with both Cannons and Torpedoes (Like I said, Zero28, a common combo ):

M-190L/T Combat Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 4x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 6x Single-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 4x Dual-arc Railgun


- 2x Aux Reactors


And at Tier 3 we have the Rapid Assault Destroyer with Cannons, Torpedoes and Beams:

M-194X Rapid Assault Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Drive
- 5x Composite Armor
- 4x Active Shields

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point-defense Beam
- 1x Fore-arc Heavy Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Standard Chemical Laser
- 4x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 6x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 4x Fore-arc Fusion Torpedo


- 3x Auxiliary Fusion Generator


All three ships have cannons, but this isn't Pokemon. The Patrol Destroyer doesn't evolve into the Combat Destroyer and then the Rapid Assault; they're three different ships, each at a different tier and with a different set of Roles. They just have one Role in common is all.




[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2012-12-28 01:46 ]
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1894
From: Maryland, U.S.A
Posted: 2012-12-28 02:10   
I think the new ship tiers will be greeat for the game. I think it'll force players to work for the ships that they want. I know I know. You do that already by the rank structure. Gaining rank however is alot easier than it used to be in this game. You now have NPC's to shoot at which yield combat pres. When I first started playing, I had to earn combat pres by shooting other players because NPC's were'nt around in abundance back then. So, it took me 2 years to get to GA. My point is, stop complaining and be thankful that the devs are trying to bring new stuff to the game. They do work for free ya know.
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  Email Supertrooper
Brutality
Marshal

Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
Posted: 2012-12-28 02:58   
Thanks for the responses jim, they answered my questions completely.

Another question I thought of is that if there is going to be more ship layouts added, is the garage space going to be increased as well or are we going to be stuck with selecting what 8 ships we want to leave ehs on in the garage? If that hasn't been addressed yet I understand, but I thought it was worth at least bringing up.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse


Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2012-12-28 06:34   
the subscribers will get 12 slots in their garage, so in a way thats a yes.

working with 8 might be a little difficult, but if one plays only 1 faction then its manageable.
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P2.
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*


Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 139
From: Bahia Blanca, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posted: 2012-12-28 08:10   
As I always say,
Any change is welcome.
We must adapt and learn to work with them.
However, I hope that this work will be accompanied by the new maps.
Because I think that's a very important issue which is still pending.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2038
From: Michigan
Posted: 2012-12-28 10:58   
Quote:

On 2012-12-28 01:45, Jim Starluck wrote:
Ships won't exactly "advance" through the tiers. You don't start with a Tier 1 Combat Destroyer, then get a Tier 2 Combat Destroyer, and then a Tier 3 Combat destroyer. The roles that comprise the Combat Destroyer will see use at all tiers, however.

Let me explain it this way. Here's a Tier 1 ICC Destroyer with a Cannon role:


M-190L Patrol Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 5x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 1x Tri-arc Railgun

- 2x Aux Reactors


Now here's the Combat Destroyer, a Tier 2 ICC Destroyer with both Cannons and Torpedoes (Like I said, Zero28, a common combo ):

M-190L/T Combat Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 4x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 6x Single-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 4x Dual-arc Railgun


- 2x Aux Reactors


And at Tier 3 we have the Rapid Assault Destroyer with Cannons, Torpedoes and Beams:

M-194X Rapid Assault Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Drive
- 5x Composite Armor
- 4x Active Shields

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point-defense Beam
- 1x Fore-arc Heavy Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Standard Chemical Laser
- 4x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 6x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 4x Fore-arc Fusion Torpedo


- 3x Auxiliary Fusion Generator


All three ships have cannons, but this isn't Pokemon. The Patrol Destroyer doesn't evolve into the Combat Destroyer and then the Rapid Assault; they're three different ships, each at a different tier and with a different set of Roles. They just have one Role in common is all.



That's actually kinda disappointing. From the way you put it earlier about lower tier ships being more specialized it made it sound like they'd have more weapons of one type, and higher tier ships would be more diverse in their loadouts but not be able to do one single role as well as a more specialized lower tier ship. But if what you just posted here is accurate and not just something you pulled out of a hat as an example, the higher tier ships can do what a lower tier ship can do, only better, plus with another role added in.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 557
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
Posted: 2012-12-28 11:04   
There still subject to change.

Although that specific Tier 1 should get more armour and a few more cannons in my opinion aswell.
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights


Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 464
From: Dorans Basement
Posted: 2012-12-28 12:54   
Quote:

On 2012-12-28 08:10, P2. wrote:
As I always say,
Any change is welcome.
We must adapt and learn to work with them.
However, I hope that this work will be accompanied by the new maps.
Because I think that's a very important issue which is still pending.




New map is in the works, along with a revamped system that will let people chat across servers.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral

Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 589
Posted: 2012-12-28 13:40   
Quote:

On 2012-12-28 10:58, Talien wrote:
Quote:

On 2012-12-28 01:45, Jim Starluck wrote:
Ships won't exactly "advance" through the tiers. You don't start with a Tier 1 Combat Destroyer, then get a Tier 2 Combat Destroyer, and then a Tier 3 Combat destroyer. The roles that comprise the Combat Destroyer will see use at all tiers, however.

Let me explain it this way. Here's a Tier 1 ICC Destroyer with a Cannon role:


M-190L Patrol Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 5x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 1x Tri-arc Railgun

- 2x Aux Reactors


Now here's the Combat Destroyer, a Tier 2 ICC Destroyer with both Cannons and Torpedoes (Like I said, Zero28, a common combo ):

M-190L/T Combat Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Engine
- 4x Active Shields
- 4x Composite Armor

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point Defense Beam
- 2x Dual-arc Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 6x Single-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 3x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 4x Dual-arc Railgun


- 2x Aux Reactors


And at Tier 3 we have the Rapid Assault Destroyer with Cannons, Torpedoes and Beams:

M-194X Rapid Assault Destroyer

Layout:
- 1x Tachyon Drive
- 2x IE Drive
- 5x Composite Armor
- 4x Active Shields

- 1x Pulse Shield
- 2x Full-arc Point-defense Beam
- 1x Fore-arc Heavy Chemical Laser
- 4x Dual-arc Standard Chemical Laser
- 4x Tri-arc Heavy Railgun
- 6x Dual-arc Fusion Torpedo
- 4x Fore-arc Fusion Torpedo


- 3x Auxiliary Fusion Generator


All three ships have cannons, but this isn't Pokemon. The Patrol Destroyer doesn't evolve into the Combat Destroyer and then the Rapid Assault; they're three different ships, each at a different tier and with a different set of Roles. They just have one Role in common is all.



That's actually kinda disappointing. From the way you put it earlier about lower tier ships being more specialized it made it sound like they'd have more weapons of one type, and higher tier ships would be more diverse in their loadouts but not be able to do one single role as well as a more specialized lower tier ship. But if what you just posted here is accurate and not just something you pulled out of a hat as an example, the higher tier ships can do what a lower tier ship can do, only better, plus with another role added in.



this
this si the reason i hard a slight hard tiem to understand, the systme is on a good paths. but basicly, yuv jsut iven access to bigger ships (tier 1 cruisers, Dessie etc) to lower rank players, wich is good. then they mvoe to tier 2 ships as they get more prestige

but in the end, people gonna stick to the ships that has more gadgets/weapons cuz they jsut deals more. and in the end, EAD is gonna still be the shp people gonna fly most (its jsut that harder to get) cuz lower tiered (and probably smaller ships to) dont have just as much gadgets/weapons

so it sounds like its changes one problem to another, wich leads to where we are now (slight chance you gonna see less dreads and more tier 3 cruisers)


[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2012-12-28 13:42 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1186
Posted: 2012-12-28 13:48   
From Jim's example through tier 1 to tier 3 ICC destroyer, I have a few speculations:
  • There shall be more ships, along old-ships-in-new-layouts.
  • Ship's design follows role orientation and roles combination.
  • More weapons, gadgets. And the values are going to be changed to rebalance.

Few questions:
  1. If the new layout of the current ship gets different far from the old layout and we're no longer satisfied with the enhancement set up on the old one, can we ask for fractional refund?
  2. May the rank and requirement of the current ship unchanged? It's kind of unhappy when the new version release and we find us unable to launch our EAD/AD/Siphon because it'll be CM rank.

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YIIMM
Grand Admiral

Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 839
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
Posted: 2012-12-28 22:02   
As someone who dislikes flying anything bigger than a cruiser (I do have a dread and a station in my garage but they almost never see the light of day) I welcome this change wholeheartedly.

I have a hell of a lot more fun flying the smaller ships but almost always find myself in the minority surrounded by dreads and stations. Having the fleets so top-heavy means a lot of ships that the devs have gone to the trouble of creating and balancing almost never get used.

I couldn't see a solution to dreadspace but I think this may do the trick.
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