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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » New Shield Changes 2: Electric Boogaloo
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 Author New Shield Changes 2: Electric Boogaloo
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2039
From: Michigan
Posted: 2012-02-22 17:17   
I know they don't use energy, but they're still less efficient when you look at the energy use for the other shields compared to the energy generation you're losing with an aux shield instead of an aux reactor.

EDIT: Finally found time to hop into beta and check a few things out. Aux shields still only cover 1 arc, this is bad, especially if they're going to stay as an extra shield layer instead of being changed into something useful like boosted regen for the actual shields. If they're staying like this they should be full arc and closest to the hull.

I agree with Defiance, having so many shield types seems needlessly complex. Just having Active and Reactive with set resistances like it is currently in MV would be easier to deal with for devs, and easier to figure out for players, especially newer players.
[ This Message was edited by: Talien on 2012-02-23 14:02 ]
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
Posted: 2012-02-23 20:36   
Quote:

This brings up a very interesting tactic for Kluth. Muahahaha....

Can't wait to test it out when we go live.



And that tactic would be?

edit:
if your response is going to be that telling us your tactic weakens it, tough luck. the devs are trying very hard to build a balanced game. this means, that if you see an interesting tactic as a result of a change, you need to tell the devs about it, because if it results in a game imbalance that wasnt intended, it is a problem. otherwise youre wasting the devs time, pure and simple.

i remember someone saying once they found a way to get kluth ships to fire when cloaked, but oh no! cant tell you how, because then youd know. yeah, no duh, we NEED to know about that sort of thing.
[ This Message was edited by: Lark of Serenity on 2012-02-23 20:41 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-02-23 20:53   
Quote:

On 2012-02-23 20:36, Lark of Serenity wrote:
Quote:

This brings up a very interesting tactic for Kluth. Muahahaha....

Can't wait to test it out when we go live.



And that tactic would be?

edit:
if your response is going to be that telling us your tactic weakens it, tough luck. the devs are trying very hard to build a balanced game. this means, that if you see an interesting tactic as a result of a change, you need to tell the devs about it, because if it results in a game imbalance that wasnt intended, it is a problem. otherwise youre wasting the devs time, pure and simple.

i remember someone saying once they found a way to get kluth ships to fire when cloaked, but oh no! cant tell you how, because then youd know. yeah, no duh, we NEED to know about that sort of thing.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-02-23 23:15 ]





And tt tactic would be... secret for now. I'll clear this w Jack privately.

It's not an exploit by any chance. Such a suspicious little bird, this one.



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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11180
From: Bristol, England
Posted: 2012-02-23 21:27   
Any unintended gameplay will be hotfixed shortly after release. We always set aside a few days for fixes (as you can see in the past).
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-02-23 23:14   
Quote:

On 2012-02-23 21:27, BackSlash wrote:
Any unintended gameplay will be hotfixed shortly after release. We always set aside a few days for fixes (as you can see in the past).




How do u define unintended gameplay? If needed, PM me. I can clarify. But I also want to ensure that my faction doesn't get unnecessarily nerfed just because something within the mechanics works well for us.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar


Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1742
Posted: 2012-02-24 09:20   
Quote:

On 2012-02-23 23:14, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:

On 2012-02-23 21:27, BackSlash wrote:
Any unintended gameplay will be hotfixed shortly after release. We always set aside a few days for fixes (as you can see in the past).




How do u define unintended gameplay? If needed, PM me. I can clarify. But I also want to ensure that my faction doesn't get unnecessarily nerfed just because something within the mechanics works well for us.




Unintended meaning overpowered, underpowered, not working as intended, etc. For example, if the tactic causes you to be completely un-targetable, or nigh impossible to detect and kill, then we'll tweak the game so that it's harder to do so (if done easily that is).

We don't want any faction being stronger than the other two.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
Posted: 2012-02-25 20:16   
Quote:

On 2012-02-22 16:23, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
if i may be so bold...

Historicly in these types of games you have two types of shields;
The ones that take one hell of a beating at once (high hp/low regen)
The ones that take huge ammounts of DOT. (high regen/low HP)

We currently have;
active
reactive
skirmish
aux


Only need two types!

K.I.S.S. no?

whats with all these strange resistances!. Your trying to justify having soooo many shield types. its not needed.

Save yourself some work, time, and sanity.

Shields should have set resistances. They should have the same resistances no matter what type. Since its only the generator and capasitor that are being changed (how fast shield energy can be generated, and how much shield energy can be stored)

Maby there is room for one more shield type. Capital shields (fast regen/high hp)... but the code does not allow for it.

We lost defense mode so that ICC would be easy to balance, and then we add lots of layer cake to wade through to adjust ICC's primary defense there by complicating balance once more.

K . I . S . S .




I cannot possibly emphasise how much I agree with this. If UGTO weren't specifically designed so that their different types of armour give them an edge in combat against certain threats, I'd just dump resistances completely and focus on tuning damage from individual weapons without all the kinetic/energy/psi stuff getting in the way. It causes insanity when you try to mess with overall resistances (which affect effective damage-taking ability) AND hitpoints (which ALSO affect effective damage-taking ability) at the same time.

Of course, the fact that one of UGTO's hats is that they have armour specifically tuned for certain threats suggests to me that maybe ICC should not also have the same luxury, at least in regards to damage resistance.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2012-02-25 22:19   
i agree.

ICC should not have this last bastion of UGTO identity. Resistance types per defensive gadget is ugtos trait.

We gonna give ugto a pulse wave? (no no no)


also think what makes this so complex is the fact that most weapons do two types of damage....

or.... two types of damage are one....

or.... nvm this making my head hurt and im not willing to dive back into the code to look.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2012-02-25 22:29 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-02-25 22:52   

Can't please everybody all of the time eh?

You simplify the game (planetary system) and some ppl will whine that the game's too easy.
You add flavor to the game (armor and shields) and now it's too complex. KISS pls.

Srsly WTF?


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Rebel Retribution
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 23, 2006
Posts: 41
From: Hillsboro, OR
Posted: 2012-02-25 23:18   
So if shield resistances were placed back at 0 and everything just did normal dmg to it, what kind of shields does ICC need? You would have to balance out shield hp with regen and of course power consumption. Now that defense mode is only out of combat now, it should b easier to balance.

Any suggestions?
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  Email Rebel Retribution
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral

Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
Posted: 2012-02-25 23:24   
The only problem with these shield resistances is that before all weapons save energy did equal damage, now that shields are introduced balance in the other 2 faction's weapons is skewed vs ICC. If they can pull off a good balance now that there are much more variables to consider I would say it's okay.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
Posted: 2012-02-25 23:31   
i dont think its an exploit, but... better example:

a few versions ago, ICC could load the MD up with torpedoes, with the result that it could alpha kill most other ships in the game. legit? yes. desirable? no, not at all.

you also used to be allowed to WH people into planets. legit? yes. desirable? agian, no, not at all.

the devs are not omnipotent. there are a lot of variables at play. it is possible that what you see flowing from the changes being made is something they did not see.

think of elf beams on ICC dreads. think of MIRV MDs. from my standpoint as an ICC pilot, of course im going to use those. from the standpoint of a kluth pilot, they break the game completely and its pointless to play. do you see what im getting at here? if you want to play this game, then updates need to be thoroughly understood. if you dont tell the playerbase of things you see flowing from updates, we dont understand the update. if we dont understand the update, unintended consequences flow from it that break the game. if the game is broken, all the work the devs did was worthless, players leave, and the game dies.

im not trying to get an advantage over your stupid faction, i dont even play anymore. your "secret" tactic will cease to be a secret the first time you use it, so honestly i dont see why youre even bothering to be so quiet about it, but if it doesnt have a valid, reasonable counter, that is a problem for gameplay. say what it is, so the people who know the other factions better can tell us if its reasonable or not. this isnt about getting your secrets, this is about building a better game. if people arent going to communicate possible tactics with the devs, theres no reason for them to talk to us and this post might as well be locked.
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3821
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2012-02-26 04:16   
Quote:

On 2012-02-25 23:31, Lark of Serenity wrote:
i dont think its an exploit, but... better example:

a few versions ago, ICC could load the MD up with torpedoes, with the result that it could alpha kill most other ships in the game. legit? yes. desirable? no, not at all.

you also used to be allowed to WH people into planets. legit? yes. desirable? agian, no, not at all.

the devs are not omnipotent. there are a lot of variables at play. it is possible that what you see flowing from the changes being made is something they did not see.

think of elf beams on ICC dreads. think of MIRV MDs. from my standpoint as an ICC pilot, of course im going to use those. from the standpoint of a kluth pilot, they break the game completely and its pointless to play. do you see what im getting at here? if you want to play this game, then updates need to be thoroughly understood. if you dont tell the playerbase of things you see flowing from updates, we dont understand the update. if we dont understand the update, unintended consequences flow from it that break the game. if the game is broken, all the work the devs did was worthless, players leave, and the game dies.

im not trying to get an advantage over your stupid faction, i dont even play anymore. your "secret" tactic will cease to be a secret the first time you use it, so honestly i dont see why youre even bothering to be so quiet about it, but if it doesnt have a valid, reasonable counter, that is a problem for gameplay. say what it is, so the people who know the other factions better can tell us if its reasonable or not. this isnt about getting your secrets, this is about building a better game. if people arent going to communicate possible tactics with the devs, theres no reason for them to talk to us and this post might as well be locked.




Bla bla bla. I've already communicated with Jack.

Take it easy. What's up with you? That time of the month again?


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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2012-02-26 12:55   
so.. me and gejah are the only ones that think shields are being over done?

Well then go with the masses. Id rather see icc come back than my wants met.

Again, thanks frob for working so hard on them.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2012-02-26 12:56 ]
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
339,144

Critus
Chief Marshal

Joined: December 28, 2007
Posts: 52
From: kpo8914
Posted: 2012-02-26 13:02   
Quote:

On 2012-02-26 12:55, Defiance{CM7} wrote:
so.. me and gejah are the only ones that think shields are being over done?

Well then go with the masses. Id rather see icc come back than my wants met.

Again, thanks frob for working so hard on them.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance{CM7} on 2012-02-26 12:56 ]



I agree the new type of shield is unnecesary it should be a standar buff, increase def 5% regen 7% , but i like the new aux shields def x3 and no power consuption...
To summerize what are the changes in icc?
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