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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Beta Testing Discussion » » Loss of the full arc plate on stations
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 Author Loss of the full arc plate on stations
Rebellion
Marshal
Faster than Light


Joined: June 20, 2009
Posts: 730
From: sol
Posted: 2011-06-23 11:53   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 11:02, Enterprise wrote:
Fighters in a future update as far as I'm aware are going to get a significant boost.

That being said, I think giving all stations fighter capability is a really bad idea.

Making any one ship universally good is bad. Just plain bad. The new layouts are perfect examples of how ships should be. Good for a role, but with big, obvious weaknesses. Support Stations can't have everything, just like assault Class Stations can't either. You pick your role and you stick with it.

Support Stations are not designed to be offensive, merely advocating more firepower for them goes entirely against its purpose. Its not there to be a giant, indestructible weapons platform, its there to server as support, primarily in the repairing depatment.

People are going to get a rude awakening when depots get nerfed. Folks are so used to being able to repair their Dreadnaught to full capacity in under a minute. This being changed dramatically increases the usefulness of those reload drones, and makes it so that stations can't make themselves into a giant tank.

Every ship should be vulnerable. The fact that stations as they stand now can withstand ridiculous amounts of damage is purely due to the oversight of how effective reloading armor can be. When that changes you better be ready to learn how to really play.

That means, if you bring out a station, you better have support.

If you bring out a Dreadnaught, you better hope you have EWAR support.

That means if you bring out a cruiser, you better pick the right one for the role you want to fill. You can't be everything.

And every ship in between knows that smaller ships get back to full health far faster than bigger ones. Which means if you get hulled, you better be prepared to wait more than 30 seconds.

Its how DS really comes to life as a tactical PvP game. You weigh the risks and the rewards, the pros and the cons, and you decide how to play. This patch is the greatest advancement towards teamwork since .480, and I cannot wait to see it in action.

People might gripe, but let them. I want a game where everyone doesn't fly the same ship all the time. So no, you don't get fighters on every station, or missiles on every dread, or ECCM on every cruiser. You play by the rules, and you play to rely on your friends.

Seriously, this patch is so cleverly disguised to encourage teamwork that every person that has henceforth relied on dread spacebar mashing and depots is in for a very rude awakening.




-Ent




this +1
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 361
From: Boston MA
Posted: 2011-06-23 12:06   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 11:02, Enterprise wrote:
Seriously, this patch is so cleverly disguised to encourage teamwork that every person that has henceforth relied on dread spacebar mashing and depots is in for a very rude awakening.

-Ent




I wouldn't say it's that's cleaverly disguised. Was clear to me in about an hour of testing in Beta yesterday. EW/PD are going to be exceptionally important upon release. As ships stand now, they're close to jack of all trades there is very little specialization. Now with ships because super-specialized, if you don't work together with various ship types (of all sizes mind you, the UGTO Defense Frigate is a Electronic Warfare BEAST) you will die quick and painfully.

My only worry is the need for a larger playerbase for this patch the work, it's a gamble. The current Playerbase sized as it is I hope we can actually get enough players into the game to make this forced specialization to work and not be disasterous. If there aren't enough players to work as a team and people are constantly dying I see them leaving and not playing leading to a vicious not enough players paradox.
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 708
From: Shadows
Posted: 2011-06-23 13:15   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 11:53, Rebellion *XO2* wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 11:02, Enterprise wrote:

Words

Seriously, this patch is so cleverly disguised to encourage teamwork that every person that has henceforth relied on dread spacebar mashing and depots is in for a very rude awakening.

-Ent




this +1




+1
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-06-23 14:32   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 12:06, Krim {C?} wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 11:02, Enterprise wrote:
Seriously, this patch is so cleverly disguised to encourage teamwork that every person that has henceforth relied on dread spacebar mashing and depots is in for a very rude awakening.

-Ent




I wouldn't say it's that's cleaverly disguised. Was clear to me in about an hour of testing in Beta yesterday. EW/PD are going to be exceptionally important upon release. As ships stand now, they're close to jack of all trades there is very little specialization. Now with ships because super-specialized, if you don't work together with various ship types (of all sizes mind you, the UGTO Defense Frigate is a Electronic Warfare BEAST) you will die quick and painfully.

My only worry is the need for a larger playerbase for this patch the work, it's a gamble. The current Playerbase sized as it is I hope we can actually get enough players into the game to make this forced specialization to work and not be disasterous. If there aren't enough players to work as a team and people are constantly dying I see them leaving and not playing leading to a vicious not enough players paradox.





Is why i have been extensivly working to build FTL up with only team players that are willing to do what it takes to win. Ive also been advocating ship diversity among the fleet.

when this patch hits, ICC will be strong.

Ive even tried my hand at preparing UGTO "depot treaty" and was met with mostly positive results. Im also pleased to say that UGTO has been fielding diverse ships too.

when this patch hits UGTO will be ready (for the most part)


ICC UGTO wars will be ballanced and fun.

K'luth on the otherhand...... will have an all you can eat buffet of small ships......

that being said, kluth will not be impossible to deal with. It will require purpose built fleets to hunt, trap, and kill them.

An area ive not gone over too well with FTL.... (starts now)
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-06-23 14:35 ]
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Alcedo
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*


Joined: June 03, 2010
Posts: 136
Posted: 2011-06-23 14:35   
[quote]
On 2011-06-23 12:06, Krim {C?} wrote:
Quote:


My only worry is the need for a larger playerbase for this patch the work, it's a gamble. The current Playerbase sized as it is I hope we can actually get enough players into the game to make this forced specialization to work and not be disasterous. If there aren't enough players to work as a team and people are constantly dying I see them leaving and not playing leading to a vicious not enough players paradox.





This, very much. I cannot agree more. The specialization and teamwork sounds very nice on paper, but the game just don't have the playerbase to justify it. The very design of DarkSpace calls for a larger playerbase. With the new layouts, even more so.

Sometimes I get the impression DS gets designed for what the devs hope it to be, but the reality is in stark contrast to that dream.


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  Email Alcedo
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light


Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
Posted: 2011-06-23 14:39   
the beuty of this is, if you dont have the support, then dont field bigger ships.

Cruisers can fight quite well alone. its dreads and stations that req a fleet to protect vital holes
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
Posted: 2011-06-23 15:03   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 14:32, Defiance*XO* wrote:
K'luth on the otherhand...... will have an all you can eat buffet of small ships......

that being said, kluth will not be impossible to deal with. It will require purpose built fleets to hunt, trap, and kill them.




yes luth ships can eat little ships with little ease. catching em on the other hand isn;t so easy. lets say icc is fielding a all cruiser fleet and luth is fielding a dred based fleet. our dreds will have to use perfect point jumps just to catch those cruisers, but in the mean time while we are decloaked your cruisers can just sit behind us and mash space bar untill we are forced to cloak for repairs.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
Posted: 2011-06-23 15:11   
[quote]
On 2011-06-23 14:35, Alcedo wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 12:06, Krim {C?} wrote:
Quote:


My only worry is the need for a larger playerbase for this patch the work, it's a gamble. The current Playerbase sized as it is I hope we can actually get enough players into the game to make this forced specialization to work and not be disasterous. If there aren't enough players to work as a team and people are constantly dying I see them leaving and not playing leading to a vicious not enough players paradox.





This, very much. I cannot agree more. The specialization and teamwork sounds very nice on paper, but the game just don't have the playerbase to justify it. The very design of DarkSpace calls for a larger playerbase. With the new layouts, even more so.

Sometimes I get the impression DS gets designed for what the devs hope it to be, but the reality is in stark contrast to that dream.






You really can't design a game system based around the idea that a factino won't have at least have three people online to work together.

And even with that being said, really only the bigger ships need serious support. Rare occasion that you're alone? Fly a destroyer. Or a frigate.

If we rely on any idea that single ship or two on its own will be able to turn back a fleet, then we wind up with a slippery slope that when the numbers ARE around, then thats all people fly.

Kind of like now.

How do you like that station spam?





-Ent
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
Posted: 2011-06-23 15:28   
I can see the role of Support station and Battle station. But I don't think Command Station is good.

First, it doesn't have tractor & mining beam. Without tractor & mining beam, command station is not meant to capture planet anymore.

Second, the command gadget shall be less useful on command station, compare to command dread. Because it's damn slow.

Now UGTO Support, Command station and Luth Hive & Colony can only fire 2 core weapon at any direction, reminds me of the current ICC SS. It means UGTO SS is no longer an "I-win" ship.

The new missles have far minimum range - 450gu+. So you can place EAD between 450gu and 350gu to kill Hive. I don't have a chance to test, but I believe with this new layout, new ICC SS shall be the mightiest SS due to its long range core weapon and pulse wave.

Station is no longer a definition of steady power, it supports fleet and it needs fleet secure. Unlike the other classes, beta station is the only class that weaker than the currnt one I think.

With 3,5gu/s speed, control the station is all about picking the right situation & timing. Station lovers shall adjust their mind about their beloved toys because its useage will be changed dramatically.
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar


Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
Posted: 2011-06-23 15:38   
Command Station will probably get more than one command aura, whereas Command Dreads will only have one.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2039
From: Michigan
Posted: 2011-06-23 16:00   
Quote:

On 2011-06-23 15:28, chlorophyll wrote:
I can see the role of Support station and Battle station. But I don't think Command Station is good.

First, it doesn't have tractor & mining beam. Without tractor & mining beam, command station is not meant to capture planet anymore.



Why should one ship be able to do everything required to capture a planet on it's own? It has a large cargo hold, it can load up on resources beforehand, and/or people can actually pick up the debris from destroyed ships and offload it onto a Command Station instead of just letting it sit there and decay.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral

Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
Posted: 2011-06-23 16:00   
i dont know exactly, how these command gadgets work, but here's a suggestion to em:

command dread get one gadget

all stations get a smaler version of those gadgets (eg. +5% health instead of +10%)
command stations get a second one
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy


Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
Posted: 2011-06-23 17:18   
I'd actually go for Command Stations to have up to at least three auras, just because they're so stationary.

I would give Command Stations mining beams though, they really are a jack of all trades ship, not really a combat ship, just a big, heavily armored support ship that can do everything a fleet needs. Everything from bombing to capturing, to building/rebuilding to repair, to boosting a fleets capability to fight

I just hope the auras are big enough to really help a fleet, it would need to be at least 2-3kgu for any practical effect.




-Ent
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Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: February 04, 2006
Posts: 581
From: Norway
Posted: 2011-06-23 18:08   
Lol 2-3k


Nah btw 500gu to 1k max.

And i don't think today's solution will stop station spam at all.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral

Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
Posted: 2011-06-23 18:11   
just tried the new hive on beta, and i must say, they're frightening
(since noone else was there, i had to hunt some ai)

those station-grade missles have a serious punch ( 1 volley instant gib everything below destroyer, and those take heavy damage, too (100% hull + armor ugto-dessie down to 1% hull + 40% armor)

even dreads (ugto battledread) take aprox to 10% hulldamage per volley
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