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Forum Index » » English (General) » » Make DarkSpace Great Again
 Author Make DarkSpace Great Again
Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2018-05-05 10:28   
Disclaimer: Not actually going to make DarkSpace great again; this is just mental masturbation, a thought exercise for fun.

---

Part 1: Size Matters

In DarkSpace, the size of a ship often determines its relative strength to other ships. Bigger equals better in most cases: the difference between a dreadnought and a cruiser is that the dreadnought has more fire power. The difference between a dreadnought and frigate likewise.

I propose that we change this and assign unique roles to each class of ship, such that you won't find a particular quality on anything other than a specific class; this sharpens identity and enriches gameplay.

For the purposes of these changes, it is assumed every rank 0 player has access to every ship up to cruiser; only the dreadnought and station-class vessels will be locked behind rank requirements. Rest of the ranking up unlocks specific varieties of the ships, i.e. tier 2 dreadnoughts.

Additionally, it assumes the next stage of this thought project exists as well: a complete refactoring and rebalancing of weapons, as well as "tightening up" UI space: one missile launcher launches multiple missiles, one gun fires multiple shells. No more spacebar mashing but controlled chaos.

Gun characteristics like projectile speed and tracking are also different, of course.

Jump Drives actually have a spool-up time, so you can no longer jump instantly. This will better balance long-range combat against close-range combat.

---

Corvette

Removed from the game. Corvettes are scouts and light assault craft, but we're taking them out. They do provide fast-paced combat, but corvettes can only fight corvettes and serve a scouting role otherwise. Scouting is dreadfully boring so they're gone.

---

Frigate

Phased out when battleships were introduced in the mid-19th century. Traditionally they were escorts and anti-submarine. In DarkSpace, these are our dedicated scouts. They're too small to be effective screening ships or to provide meaningful combat additions, but the frigates we do have will be equipped with the following:

- Extensive sensor arrays to detect enemy fleets. The difference between 'a fleet with a frigate' and 'a fleet without frigate' will be that the former has much better intel and hiding capabilities. ECM/ECCM are frigate-based folks!
- Minimal missile systems to assault enemy ships from range. Missiles won't be able to do much against frigates and destroyers, but should work against cruisers somewhat and a lot against dreadnoughts. Damage isn't amazing, but it's there.
- Torpedo system to assault close-range ships. If these are present, missiles are not. Torpedoes are refactored to heavy-duty anti-dreadnought systems, and deal significant damage to dreadnoughts. But they are close-range, so obviously dedicated boats.
- Small calibre guns. Specifically intended to take out enemy frigates. These do nothing to dreadnoughts but are capable against frigates and destroyers.
- Provide repair utility. But this comes at the expense of sensor suites, missiles and torpedoes. Very few but light guns can remain, but not necessarily.

Intended role: recon and intel. Some can do devastating damage to dreadnoughts, but generally they are flimsy ships that have no business getting close to dreadnoughts. Repair frigates obviously are intended to repair, but not necessarily in the heat of battle.

---

Destroyer

Traditionally intended to destroy torpedo boats, or rather, "against their own class", destroyers could do devastating damage to battleships with their torpedo systems. These ships will:

- Carry heavy torpedo armaments. Primarily, their role is to sink dreadnoughts. This is what they are best at. Torpedoes can harm other ships but won't be reliable enough to do so.
- Provide escort screening service and light gunnery. Some destroyers will be better gunned to destroy other destroyers, but this is balanced with screening ability. A destroyer is never great at either.

Destroyers never carry missiles, nor craft.

Intended role: sink dreadnoughts. Yes. These pests will exist heavily to bring dreadnoughts down.

---

Cruisers

Jacks-of-all-trades. In DarkSpace, we'll make a distinction between Light and Heavy Cruisers like they did in the mid-19th century. Light Cruisers are typically more agile and less well-armoured/gunned, whereas Heavy Cruisers are heavily gunned and armoured, intended to go toe-to-toe with other cruisers.

Light Cruisers will:

- Carry a good array of low-to-medium calibre guns. Possibly a combination: these guns are good at taking down destroyers and other light cruisers, even frigates, but will have poor performance against more heavily armoured cousins or dreadnoughts.
- Carry a modest torpedo or missile armament. More-so to deter dreadnoughts from just having their way with them than to pose a real, credible threat. Destroyers will surpass light cruisers in torpedo performance, whereas missile performance can match or slightly exceed frigates.
- Have decent sensor arrays. Not to the effect of frigates, but some capability to allow them to control the Ewar scene at least a little. Some forego these in favour of more weaponry.
- Have medium to heavy screening ability. Depending on the rest of the guns, of course, but cruisers are the screening vessels.

Heavy Cruisers will:

- Be slow but well-protected. They toe the middle line between light cruisers and dreadnought in terms of mobility and defences.
- Carry mid-to-high calibre guns. Heavy Cruisers intended targets are their light cruiser cousins and to provide a faster variant of dreadnought gameplay, but obviously they will be undergunned compared to dreadnoughts.
- Carry minimal torpedo armaments. Just to dissuade dreadnoughts from coming up close.
- Can carry heavy missile armaments. Cruisers have the size for it. Missiles can be used for long-range harassment, but because these things are large and heavy, it'll be easier to actually deal with the buggers. If they carry these, obviously something has to give, and they never carry torpedoes with missiles. Missile cruisers have low-calibre guns to dissuade destroyers and light cruisers, but can't go toe-to-toe with other heavy cruisers.
- Provide medium screening ability. Or light, depending on other weapon systems. Not as good as light cruisers, better than destroyers.

Intended roles: mainstay of the fleets. Light cruisers deal with small ships, heavy cruisers with cruisers and dreadnoughts.

---

Dreadnought

THE big ships of the world war, eventually completely phased out for aircraft carriers. RIP. Luckily we still love them here. Ponderous and heavily gunned/armoured, these are what the navies rely upon to assault homebases. Compared to current dreadnoughts, the new dreadnoughts would be more cumbersome to move.

Dreadnoughts will:

- Carry the heaviest guns and/or missiles available. They (almost) never carry torpedoes, but have large, slow-firing guns that can devastate light cruisers if they hit, make heavy cruisers cower and deal with other dreadnoughts. Missile systems will be light, or come at the expensive of smaller calibre guns.
- Never carry torpedoes. Something has to give.
- Provide decent screening but mostly for self. Effective screening but with smaller range than everything else. These bastards only care about themselves.
- Carry anti-planetary weaponry. The only ship-class that is intended to devastate planets as necessary. You need big weapons to do meaningful damage to planets.
- Be the only class with "super" weapons. QST etcetera? Strictly dreadnought, not even stations get these. Dreadnoughts with super weapons sacrifice some other weapon systems, but in return they are ideal for taking out stations.

Intended role: heavy gunnery, and what you bring to take planets or take out stations/other dreadnoughts. We're done with dreadnought being the main stay decisively by making guns poor at hitting light cruisers and introducing destroyers dedicated to taking out dreadnoughts.

---

Carriers & Stations

Carriers are a sub-set of dreadnoughts, but require some more thought. Guppy should probably be upscaled to minimum heavy cruiser. What should the intended role of stations be, though? Probably not heavy weapon platforms any longer, since they dominate the meta when they're strong weapon platforms, and else almost make no appearance.

How effective should carriers be and do they deserve other weapons?

---

Part 2 will focus on sharpening factional identities.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2018-05-05 17:23 ]
_________________


Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2018-05-05 12:49   
Part1a: Guns and Torpedoes

Quick interlude before part two, the so-called guns and torpedo systems rework.

---

General

Railguns get fall-off, but in return have more damage than UGTO guns. They do fire more slowly, emphasising alpha over damage-per-second, and they have poorer tracking (but greater range) than UGTO.

Particle Cannons are the fastest firing weapon system in the game. You're welcome. UGTO are more about going in there and keeping at it, whereas ICC are hit-and-run; thus, DOT emphasis fits more with UGTO than ICC.

Psi Cannons have poor range, but less falloff than now. Damage is higher than UGTO but less than ICC. Reload is slower than UGTO but faster than ICC. Psi Cannons have superb tracking. De-emphasising their "either kill in one alpha or die" playstyle should make cloak less frustrating to play against.

Guns on ships are dramatically reduced, but the damage of each is improved. For example: UGTO Dreadnought should have two guns. One with Fore/Port/Aft and one with Fore/Starboard/Aft facings. Each gun fires a spray of bullets and acts as if it were five guns. Score! Your UI now has far fewer gadgets on it.

Torpedoes likewise, but their angles are more restrictive: max of two. Destroyers are the only ships that fire more than two projectiles, though.

Missiles retain full angles and fire a volley as well, but they don't really fall under the rest of the rebalancing yet.

---

All Factions

- Guns have their reload timer drastically increased. Small Particle Cannons (fastest guns in the game) now take 4 seconds between shots. Particle Blasters, the slowest cannons, have 20 seconds inbetween shots. This makes captains more discerning about when they deploy guns.
- UGTO Torpedoes fire every 40 seconds, but do massive damage against whatever they hit. ICC Torpedoes launch every 45 seconds and do less damage, but they travel a longer distance and move faster. No tracking though.
- Lasers no longer double-dip. Either it's screening or it's meant for ship-to-ship combat!

---

UGTO

- Particle cannons now exist in Small Particle Cannon, Heavy Particle Cannon and Particle Blaster. Small Particle Cannons do light damage, but have a fast rate of fire, superb tracking and fast projectile. Particle Blasters have poor tracking, poor reload and medium-speed projectiles, but do heavy damage to whatever they hit. Heavy Particle Cannons sit inbetween, with decent damage, a decent rate-of-fire and decent tracking.
- EMP Cannons removed from the game.
- Lasers have been replaced by "Plasma Rifles": these automatically engage missiles and aircraft within range with a burst of plasma. 100% hitrate.
- Proton Torpedoes have massively reduced reload and no tracking, but massively increased damage.

---

ICC

- Railguns now exist in 130mm Railgun, 210mm Railgun and 400mm Railgun variants. As with UGTO, the small calibre guns have better ballistics whereas large calibre do more damage.
- Railguns now have falloff. Sorry IIC.
- Railguns can choose between ammo types. You can only swap at planets or if you have ammo in your cargo hold. AP ammunition focuses on penetrating armour and does more damage, but with more falloff. Explosive ammunition has less variance and does lower damage, but falloff is significantly reduced. ICC captains must carefully choose their playstyle.
- ICC Torpedoes are the slowest in the game, but have the longest range and the lowest reload. They also do the least damage.
- Lasers replaced with 50mm Railguns; these have 100% accuracy and fire on all small ordnance.

---

K'Luth

- Torpedoes removed from the game. Weapons with heavy payload and the safety of stealth? No, sorry.
- Psi Cannons are now Psi Rifles, ranging from Light, Focused and Mega Psi Rifles.
- K'Luth missiles removed from the game. Sorry, again!
- Disruptors are the only weapon in the game with 100% damage against enemy vessels. Range drastically reduced, but they now do their damage in one blast rather than over time. Score! Disruptors also come in sizes: Minor, Focused and Mega. Mega Disruptors cannot harm ships below Cruiser-size. Focused do half damage against frigates. Disruptors last a short while. Ships being disrupted cannot reload any devices.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2018-05-05 13:06 ]
_________________


Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 175
From: home planet: Exathra
Posted: 2018-05-05 21:32   
small change: make it so you can spin up the drive and have it drain your energy reserve until you actually execute the jump........you follow ????

anyway give icc energized armor as a 2nd armor choice, i figure ugto has 3 or 4 choices so at the least there should be a 2nd armor choice for icc............

maybe give ugto a proto-type for energy shields for say only on destroyers ??? say only 75% the hp of icc shields and take double the time to re-charge.......


[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM* on 2018-05-05 21:39 ]
_________________
1st recorded subscription activation 8-17-01 (under a different name & email)
17 years of playing this mo'-fo....amazing isn't it ?
119 on prestige list..
R.I.P. Stephen Hawking

  Email Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Claysalt
Admiral

Joined: March 11, 2018
Posts: 4
From: P496: Decima (Kepler-10b)
Posted: 2018-05-06 01:13   
And yet i see nuthing about kluth in there just make icc ships and ugto ships better again screw the lkuth right. how about some ballance, not just make icc better cause all the mods play this and we (kluth ) get nuthing again i vote no for the change if all your changing is what you want.

_________________
“War does not determine who is right — only who is left.”

Totenkopf
Marshal

Joined: June 16, 2010
Posts: 10
Posted: 2018-05-06 02:03   
I used to like more before projectiles range got nerfed and with longer timer . Bring back old qst range 1050 gu , icc ion cannons 1100 or 1200 and kluth SI at 800 range. Make dreads mass lower as it used to be and the game will be much faster . Imo stations should be bigger then dreads with that armor circle. Support stations are useless and never seen one in game for a very long time so basically you guys removed a ship from the start. Put them something with less damage for example so people could have a various tipe of ships to use and besides this is a strategy game .
_________________


BLADERUNNER2019
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan


Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'

Joined: December 18, 2010
Posts: 122
Posted: 2018-05-06 12:40   
I think the ships need to be enhanced to their former glory. Nerfing players fav ships has caused too many vetran daily players to stop playing. In the real world, nerfing does not happen, everything improves. This should be the case with DS ships. We all know that the JD recharge time is way too slow to navigate through the map, why not decrease it by 1/2. The combat timer also is way to long, and so is the docking timer. The cloaking timer as well is too long. All these timers could easliy be decreased to 1/2 without offending anyone. I would really like to see missions on f6. Also, bring back elites, to better protect home systems and give rare enhancement drops that cannot be bought. I think new players should have access to more ships and they should be given credits to buy enhancements when they first open up thier account so they can enhance their fav combat ship. Also, I have given alot of enhancements away to new players, but most of them end up disappearing into space, it would be nice to be able to unload enhancements to another player like we can do with resources and infantry. New players are the future of DS, we need to get them and keep them. This is by far the best game on the internet, if we can get a lot of our vetrans back, this would help get new players.
_________________


Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
Posted: 2018-05-06 17:33   
Quote:
On 2018-05-06 12:40, BLADERUNNER2019 wrote:
I think the ships need to be enhanced to their former glory. Nerfing players fav ships has caused too many vetran daily players to stop playing. In the real world, nerfing does not happen, everything improves.



Continuously buffing everything is how you get power creep. As far as I care, DarkSpace has good ideas but needs some adjustments to target frustrating gameplay. DarkSpace has had issues where fights boil down to "whoever has the most ships", so any update should target that flaw and design gameplay around "who plays best". This means some mechanics need to be "nerfed" or adjusted.

This isn't real life, this is a game. For the sake of healthier gameplay, sometimes you must nerf things.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2018-05-06 17:33 ]
_________________


bananasog
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan


Joined: January 29, 2018
Posts: 4
Posted: 2018-05-07 01:12   
Quote:
On 2018-05-05 12:49, Bardiche wrote:

K'Luth

- Torpedoes removed from the game. Weapons with heavy payload and the safety of stealth? No, sorry.




Lol if the ship has torps, you're already out of energy and can't cloak anyway. No worries on that one.
_________________


BLADERUNNER2019
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan


Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'

Joined: December 18, 2010
Posts: 122
Posted: 2018-05-07 07:16   
Quote:
On 2018-05-06 17:33, Bardiche wrote:
Quote:
On 2018-05-06 12:40, BLADERUNNER2019 wrote:
I think the ships need to be enhanced to their former glory. Nerfing players fav ships has caused too many vetran daily players to stop playing. In the real world, nerfing does not happen, everything improves.



Continuously buffing everything is how you get power creep. As far as I care, DarkSpace has good ideas but needs some adjustments to target frustrating gameplay. DarkSpace has had issues where fights boil down to "whoever has the most ships", so any update should target that flaw and design gameplay around "who plays best". This means some mechanics need to be "nerfed" or adjusted.

This isn't real life, this is a game. For the sake of healthier gameplay, sometimes you must nerf things.
[ This Message was edited by: BLADERUNNER2019 on 2018-05-07 07:24 ]




I agree with you, but there is a flaw in your opinion. I have many times been out numbered in combat and won. This does not mean my ships need to be nerfed. Player skill is a major factor that needs to be considered when making changes to ships. The problem that I have noticed is that ships are nerfed to accomodate weaker player skills to balance things out. For example, most ICC players are poor at piloting dreads and die in them....It is not the dreads fault. Most ICC players are inexperienced in flying dreads because they always use cruisers. Same goes for me in station. I am poorly skilled at piloting stations because I never use them and will die if I do, it is not the station, it is my lack of experience piloting it. Enhancements also are a key factor in combat. this is why I think that new players should be given credits when they open thier account to enhance there combat ship of choice and why us vetrans should be able to unload enhancements to new players like we can resources and infantry and vetrans can trade enhancements. Also enhancement drops need to be upgraded, most drops are useless. Enhancement drops should be geared to a player's ship enhancements, If I have 4 Beam multiplexors on my ship then the odds of getting a beam multiplexor from killing a ship should be increased. (Also minors and limited need to just not exist).
_________________


Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 175
From: home planet: Exathra
Posted: 2018-05-09 16:27   
remove minor enhancements........ok
leave limited enhancements..........ok

as far as a revenue stream goes DS only has 2:

1) purchasing credits and
2) the few of us that actually still have a monthly subscription

as far as i'm concerned i kept my sub live even during the 3+ years that i wasn't active.

and i did that for only 1 reason: because i don't want DS to disappear and because even now it still brings enjoyment when i play, now if you have ways to bring in lots of $$$$ to hire a paid staff to work here even part-time.....then be my guest....just don't expect the guys that volunteer their time and have kept the game going these last 10+ years to be miracle workers.....again, if you actually have time in your busy schedule and have the skills , then by all means, donate your time and Make Dark Space Great Again !!!!!

rambling as always..............peace out

[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM* on 2018-05-09 16:41 ]
_________________
1st recorded subscription activation 8-17-01 (under a different name & email)
17 years of playing this mo'-fo....amazing isn't it ?
119 on prestige list..
R.I.P. Stephen Hawking

  Email Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 175
From: home planet: Exathra
Posted: 2018-06-19 10:48   
was just thinking that maybe stations should be a single space based structure similar to platforms(without time limit) having guns,torps,and beams, but you build them on say the 'north pole' of the planet and they would be expected to do all the planet defense work and would be limited to 1 per planet and then remove the planet defense bases or rename it to 'planetary defense headquarters' and limit that structure to 1 per planet too...........

pop: 10
power: 25
resources: same amount for planetary interdictor

anyway..........peace out...............<drops mic>


[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM* on 2018-06-20 07:24 ]
_________________
1st recorded subscription activation 8-17-01 (under a different name & email)
17 years of playing this mo'-fo....amazing isn't it ?
119 on prestige list..
R.I.P. Stephen Hawking

  Email Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 175
From: home planet: Exathra
Posted: 2018-07-15 01:54   
*burp*.........!!!
i'd say that making ugto/icc weps inter-changable would do a good job to returning DS to its former glory..........
_________________
1st recorded subscription activation 8-17-01 (under a different name & email)
17 years of playing this mo'-fo....amazing isn't it ?
119 on prestige list..
R.I.P. Stephen Hawking

  Email Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
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